Renting points through a broker? What's up with that??

[Sammie]

Advertising. Sponsorships.

Just because there isn't a specific listing fee charged doesn't mean there isn't any money to be made by being the conduit that facilitates the transaction.

(Incidentally I hope nobody construes these comments as criticism of the DIS because that is NOT the intent.)

Ok, I can see an indirect relation, but would not consider that the same as someone that charges a fee for that particular service.

I would imagine here the R/T is more of a service and less of a business in that I doubt very few from there generate any business to the sponsors.

 

[TTFN!]

Ok, I can see an indirect relation, but would not consider that the same as someone that charges a fee for that particular service.

I would imagine here the R/T is more of a service and less of a business in that I doubt very few from there generate any business to the sponsors.

Perhaps a valid distinction, perhaps not.

Do you know the case law on indirect relationships generating funds vs service vs business entities?

Neither do I of course.

But the site is high profile enough, and the 'brokering' active enough, that if they could Disney would have done something by now, it has been well over a year.

Perhaps, it is an offshore Nigerean Business entity, outside the reach of US law?

I stand by, if they could have they would have.....

or, if you prefer, the proof is in the pudding.

Again, I believe that the CRV is comming and one day the greats (rinkwide, Doctor Tommorrow, greenban, boat boat boat and Daitcher) shall be welcomed back to the DIS...........

ETA: I also believe that one day MS computers will be upgraded from their current TRS-80 Model I status, so I may be a little optimistic in my views!

 

[childsplay]

Again, I believe that the CRV is comming and one day the greats (rinkwide, Doctor Tommorrow, greenban, boat boat boat and Daitcher) shall be welcomed back to the DIS...........

QUOTE]

Aren't at least two of those the same people?!?

 

[TTFN!]

Again, I believe that the CRV is comming and one day the greats (rinkwide, Doctor Tommorrow, greenban, boat boat boat and Daitcher) shall be welcomed back to the DIS...........

QUOTE]

Aren't at least two of those the same people?!?

Not that I was aware of?!?

So who is the 2fer?

 

[Sammie]

Do you know the case law on indirect relationships generating funds vs service vs business entities?

Nope sorry I don't. I just feel, and I could be completely wrong on this, that DIS's sponsorship help keep the boat afloat and cover expenses with very little profit gain for the actual site.

I would imagine at time the R/T is more headache than money making venue.

I doubt ebay or that other site are in out of any service to anyone other than themselves. Just my opinion.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

not sure what the heck you are even talking about

that comment on older people not knowing the interent is wayyyyy out of place in todays world. if they can find the website for the broker then they can find disboards and do it themselves.

so you are saying going through someone else, letting them find a renter and take care of all the paperwork, is less stressful?


when its YOU that is responsible for those points and room. when its YOU who still needs to make the reservation? he convienately leaves that part out of the web site. no one is making those reservations but you unless you transfer the points, which is allowed only once.

its less stressful to have the rentee pay him and then he pay you, when its YOUR points that are gone and used. Good Luck trying to resolve that dispute when you dont get paid.



so yes I stand by my first statement....allowing someone else to rent out your points for you is flat out foolishness.

 

[childsplay]

Not that I was aware of?!?

So who is the 2fer?

So as not to pull this thread off topic I best keep my suspicions to myself

 

[tjkraz]

Ok, I can see an indirect relation, but would not consider that the same as someone that charges a fee for that particular service.

I would imagine here the R/T is more of a service and less of a business in that I doubt very few from there generate any business to the sponsors.

The financial specifics may differ, but both are still acting as a conduit between renters and rentees.

I believe someone made the comment that they found the practice a bit distasteful. I have no objections to that characterization. There are things about the rental process that I personally find distasteful. This isn't one of those cases (for me, at least) but others are entitled to their own opinions.

Strictly speaking to legalities, if DVC hasn't been able to get the DIS or eBay to stop coordinating rentals then I don't see why a different set of rules should apply here. If "Daddio" meets DVC's definition of a "commercial renter" as demonstrated by sales of his own points, I suspect DVC would act accordingly.

 

[tjkraz]

that comment on older people not knowing the interent is wayyyyy out of place in todays world. if they can find the website for the broker then they can find disboards and do it themselves.

While many people are becoming Internet savvy, I do think you're oversimplifying things a tad. Just because one can handle doing a Google search doesn't mean they want to go to all of the trouble of arranging a point rental. Since DVC rentals are 99.9% based upon trust between two parties, anyone who doesn't have 500 DIS message board posts is already at a disadvantage. Going thru a third-party who can certainly provide multiple referencess from satisfied customers is a big plus. From the standpoint of the non-member, you're also working with a professional who has gone the rental route many times rather than someone learning as they go.

Regarding the rest of your post, I suspect you are making a number of incorrect assumptions regarding specifics of the process. I didn't discuss this with Daddio in any detail, but after reading the site I had a very different impression than you did. I'll just leave him with his trade secrets...

 

[Doctor P]

The financial specifics may differ, but both are still acting as a conduit between renters and rentees.

I believe someone made the comment that they found the practice a bit distasteful. I have no objections to that characterization. There are things about the rental process that I personally find distasteful. This isn't one of those cases (for me, at least) but others are entitled to their own opinions.

Strictly speaking to legalities, if DVC hasn't been able to get the DIS or eBay to stop coordinating rentals then I don't see why a different set of rules should apply here. If "Daddio" meets DVC's definition of a "commercial renter" as demonstrated by sales of his own points, I suspect DVC would act accordingly.

There is a big legal difference among the scenarios that you have described. There is also a big difference, as I understand it, in the methods that are used to facilitate the rentals. Furthermore, there are tax and licensing issues that differ among these methods.

 

[tjkraz]

There is a big legal difference among the scenarios that you have described. There is also a big difference, as I understand it, in the methods that are used to facilitate the rentals. Furthermore, there are tax and licensing issues that differ among these methods.

There may well be different legal and tax implications for a person offering such a service, but that has little bearing on its appropriateness under the terms of the POS.

At least twice you've impled that the POS is being violated. I don't see it and you haven't provided any specifics to support your allegation.

 

[disneyfan2kids]

 

[Doctor P]

There may well be different legal and tax implications for a person offering such a service, but that has little bearing on its appropriateness under the terms of the POS.

At least twice you've impled that the POS is being violated. I don't see it and you haven't provided any specifics to support your allegation.

Asked and answered. Use the search function and you will find an extensive discussion of this issue where I quote from the POS, give guidance on establishing the definition of commercial practice/enterprise. No need to repeat it.

 

[jodifla]

Asked and answered. Use the search function and you will find an extensive discussion of this issue where I quote from the POS, give guidance on establishing the definition of commercial practice/enterprise. No need to repeat it.

Ok, I'll try...but I never seem to get the right threads on the search function these days!

 

[tjkraz]

Asked and answered. Use the search function and you will find an extensive discussion of this issue where I quote from the POS, give guidance on establishing the definition of commercial practice/enterprise. No need to repeat it.

I'll just take that as an admission that you are backing off of your statements for lack of evidence. I'm certainly not going to do your homework for you.

The continued existence of the site speaks volumes about it's "legality" under the terms of the POS.

 

[Doctor P]

I'll just take that as an admission that you are backing off of your statements for lack of evidence. I'm certainly not going to do your homework for you.

The continued existence of the site speaks volumes about it's "legality" under the terms of the POS.

My homework has already been done and I posted it several times, and I certainly am not backing off of my statements. I never said the site was "illegal" btw, though the activities associated with it MAY be in violation of the POS.

 

[GEB@okw]

The POS says that I can rent my points. Not some points or a few points but (my points), which includers all of them. I can also own several thousand of them so I can rent a few points or several thousand points a year. What ever anyone else says, does not make any difference, and I have a signed contract with Disney (THE POS) that they can not change so I continue to rent my points and pay my taxes. What these boards have done by restricting the posting rentals available to rent only hurts people who are looking to rent. There are so many better ways to rent that it does not matter. I was kicked off the rent/trade board because I responded to some one looking to rent a time I had available. What sense does that make?

 

[WebmasterDoc]

... I was kicked off the rent/trade board because I responded to some one looking to rent a time I had available. What sense does that make?

Since you brought it up, you actually lost access to the Rent/Trade Board only because you refused to honor and follow the posting rules for the board. You posted no fewer than 5 different reservations (the annual limit has been 2 for many years now) and were also soliciting rentals directly on the board without submitting your rentals for validation. You were one of those contributing to the need to make the changes to the board policy. You left no choice except to remove your access to the Rent/Trade Board.

What sense does that make?

Since you have already had all of this explained to you privately, I'd suggest making any further comments only by PM or email.

 

[Dean]

Ok, I can see an indirect relation, but would not consider that the same as someone that charges a fee for that particular service.

I would imagine here the R/T is more of a service and less of a business in that I doubt very few from there generate any business to the sponsors.

This is a personal, actually emotional, distinction. Technically from DVC's standpoint, ANY payment including accepting a meal in return is being a renter. And while DIS certainly provides a service, it also provides a business to some. I'm not saying that's wrong, just that's the way it is.

There is a big legal difference among the scenarios that you have described. There is also a big difference, as I understand it, in the methods that are used to facilitate the rentals. Furthermore, there are tax and licensing issues that differ among these methods.

As I've said before, the legal definition of commercial has nothing to do with this issue. This is simply an issuing of applying the wording from the POS that SPECIFICALLY allows renting balanced with the "commercial activity" restriction. DVC's current level of distinction apparently is over 20 rentals in a year, a reasonable level in my book.

 

[JimMIA]

What these boards have done by restricting the posting rentals available to rent only hurts people who are looking to rent. There are so many better ways to rent that it does not matter. I was kicked off the rent/trade board because I responded to some one looking to rent a time I had available. What sense does that make?

These boards are a private website, and we're all bound by the rules of the site. If we don't want to abide by the rules, we can seek out other sites.

If you got kicked off the R/T board for violating the rules -- and you've found a better place to rent -- sounds like a perfect solution for everyone to me. Why are you complaining?