Asked to Prove you are ASD or turned away?

[buffettgirl]

You can't. And being so focused on it isn't productive.

And they can't possibly be as large a percentage of the GAC population as they're being made out to be.

obviously there is no way to find this out for a fact, because it's not like they can say "hey, are you cheating the GAC system?"

But when people abuse any system it makes it harder for everyone who is actually not abusing the system. not just disney. I don't think that it's unproductive for people to speak up and to shine a light on the fact that as a group we can't condone it. I also don't agree with the assessment that it's better for 3 people who don't need it, get it, than 1 who does, doesn't. Turning a blind eye to the situation does nothing.

I don't know what the answer is. I really don't. But all you have to do is google and you'll see that the info is out there for abuse, and see that many are abusing it.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Personally, I would not mind if one had to have a real doctor's note for a GAC or even a wheelchair/ECV. It would cut down on abuse and the rentals of wheelchairs or ECV's for those that just want to just sit when they felt like it.

My son is 25 and my nephew is 24. My son is Bipolar and OCD, my nephew is ADHD. My sister and I never once got a GAC for either of them. I use to take my 3 children to the theme parks most of the time alone, just me, with 3 children and not use a GAC, in fact, I don't even think they had them back in the 80's did they? I know there weren't fast pass's back then either.. Did I have to deal with melt downs.. sure I did. When they got out of hand, I left the line. I dealt with the issues there, the same way I would deal with them when we went out to eat, or when we were at the movies or when we were at the mall.. I am not saying that those children with those issues shouldn't have a GAC card, I am saying you are lucky to have them and there should be no reason to have an issue with providing documentation if needed.

As of now, no one needs to provide any documentation to get a GAC card, but from my experiences using it for myself now due to my low vision, it seems I am being "questioned" by CM's at mainly just the HM as to why I must go a certain way. If this is the case, let me bring my documentation from my doc and it might provide a better explanation than I can. Sometimes they don't seem to understand what my reason is. They "see" I am not blind, therefore they "think" I can see just fine. So while you do not have to have documentation to obtain a GAC, you are allowed to get questioned by CM's at attractions and denied equal (and safety issues) access ??? and that just blows my mind.. where does the ADA stand on this issue.. hmmm states you don't need to show proof, but cannot be denied??? Disney says you don't need the proof and yet they still deny you....

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

obviously there is no way to find this out for a fact, because it's not like they can say "hey, are you cheating the GAC system?"

But when people abuse any system it makes it harder for everyone who is actually not abusing the system. not just disney. I don't think that it's unproductive for people to speak up and to shine a light on the fact that as a group we can't condone it. I also don't agree with the assessment that it's better for 3 people who don't need it, get it, than 1 who does, doesn't. Turning a blind eye to the situation does nothing.

Totally agree, except one thing; that last part. It does something; it makes things worse by keeping silent. As you already kinda said, with the unproductive part.

Some might chuck it down to a long run, false sentiment or whatever, but for me this topic has close connections to the meaning of dates of this week to my country. Yesterday we celebrated the country being liberated from WW2. The eve before that we remembered all those that have fallen in WW2 and any war situation since. Very sobering days.

As some might know, I'm Dutch. Part of our dark bit of history during WW2 was our way of thinking and acting. Don't see anything, don't hear anything and just follow whatever the Nazis would come up with and keep your head down and only worry about yourself. It started small enough, administrating all of the Jews. We all know how WW2 would end up. Because of how we as a Dutch nation -both individuals and gouvernment workers- acted the Nazis were able to murder a higher percentage of Jews, gypsies, gay, resistance workers and indeed; disabled than in countries where that "see nothing, hear nothing, say nothing" motto was not the norm. One huge lesson to be learned, not just by us Dutch. Each and every day again. Society is not others being responsible. Me deciding to hear, see and say nothing is me also ducking my responsibility.

While today we are "only" talking about making and keeping something as luxerious as a visit to WDW possible to as many people as possible, the same lessons can be applied. Not speaking up is always worse then speaking up in a reasonable, respectfull way. Not speaking up will not make a problem disappear but it will give it room to grow. To become a poison eventually. We see things happen, hear things, know things. Those things can be used as a huge strength in a positive way. Not speaking out of fear, it's a much more scary option for me.

Sorry to drag such a heavy topic into this, but it's been on my mind for over a week. Seeing some patterns, differences and lessons that can be learned from that when it comes to how disabled are viewed and what their role in society is in general and more specific; how the group itself influences that, roles that can be had etc. This topic being opened I guess was the last drop for me posting it in showing a bit of where my sentiment on this comes from. *getting of my soapbox now*

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Totally agree, except one thing; that last part. It does something; it makes things worse by keeping silent. As you already kinda said, with the unproductive part.

Some might chuck it down to a long run, false sentiment or whatever, but for me this topic has close connections to the meaning of dates of this week to my country. Yesterday we celebrated the country being liberated from WW2. The eve before that we remembered all those that have fallen in WW2 and any war situation since. Very sobering days.

As some might know, I'm Dutch. Part of our dark bit of history during WW2 was our way of thinking and acting. Don't see anything, don't hear anything and just follow whatever the Nazis would come up with and keep your head down and only worry about yourself. It started small enough, administrating all of the Jews. We all know how WW2 would end up. Because of how we as a Dutch nation -both individuals and gouvernment workers- acted the Nazis were able to murder a higher percentage of Jews, gypsies, gay, resistance workers and indeed; disabled than in countries where that "see nothing, hear nothing, say nothing" motto was not the norm. One huge lesson to be learned, not just by us Dutch. Each and every day again. Society is not others being responsible. Me deciding to hear, see and say nothing is me also ducking my responsibility.

While today we are "only" talking about making and keeping something as luxerious as a visit to WDW possible to as many people as possible, the same lessons can be applied. Not speaking up is always worse then speaking up in a reasonable, respectfull way. Not speaking up will not make a problem disappear but it will give it room to grow. To become a poison eventually. We see things happen, hear things, know things. Those things can be used as a huge strength in a positive way. Not speaking out of fear, it's a much more scary option for me.

Sorry to drag such a heavy topic into this, but it's been on my mind for over a week. Seeing some patterns, differences and lessons that can be learned from that when it comes to how disabled are viewed and what their role in society is in general and more specific; how the group itself influences that, roles that can be had etc. This topic being opened I guess was the last drop for me posting it in showing a bit of where my sentiment on this comes from. *getting of my soapbox now*

Well Said Sir!

AKK

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

Well Said Sir!

AKK

Grin, I'm Goofs sister so that would make me female.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

obviously there is no way to find this out for a fact, because it's not like they can say "hey, are you cheating the GAC system?"

But when people abuse any system it makes it harder for everyone who is actually not abusing the system. not just disney. I don't think that it's unproductive for people to speak up and to shine a light on the fact that as a group we can't condone it. I also don't agree with the assessment that it's better for 3 people who don't need it, get it, than 1 who does, doesn't. Turning a blind eye to the situation does nothing.

I don't know what the answer is. I really don't. But all you have to do is google and you'll see that the info is out there for abuse, and see that many are abusing it.

I totally agree! why allow 3 that do not need it for the 1 that does That not only is condoning abuse, it is also making it worse for those that need it. For every 3 people not needing it, those are 3 more wheelchairs/ECV's they may have been available for someone who did need it, or 3 less people that your child would have had to wait behind while your child was having a melt down.. and you were praying the line would go faster... it would if those 3 weren't there and in your case & mine.. that would be 3 less people standing/sitting in the viewing area where we could go to see the parade or fireworks as we might not have another option So, yes, you are totally correct, why should we condone the 3 who abuse to allow the 1 who needs. I say require documentation and it will solve a lot of issues. Anyone who is really not for this may have something to hide.. at least that is how I view it. If you are not ashamed to ask for the GAC, you should not be ashamed to provide the medical reason why.

 

[canopynut66]

We just got back from WDW last week and we had a good time. But, we did have a melt down at Haunted Mansion due to the changes. We worked to resolve it with the CMs there, but I did go to Guest Services to state that there are some issues with how the GACs are being handled by CMs.

What the Guest Services CM told me during the course of the conversation didn't really set well. She stated that because so many people are having their children "pretend" to have Autism or simply just state their child has ASD in order to "cut lines" they are being a bit more discriminate in the giving of GACs to Guests, sometimes refusing to give them. I informed her I understand that this can be a concern, but that to my knowledge Guest Relations is not allowed to ask for "proof" and that this could lead to quite a firestorm if they weren't careful.

If we had to provide proof we could from several sources including his doctors, Easter Seals, school corporation etc., but I know that it wouldn't sit well with our family to be looked at like we were trying to "get away with something". The GAC makes touring the world much easier and less stressful, and as I am sure most of you would agree, I don't mind waiting longer if it means he is calmer during the day and we have less meltdowns.

I would chalk this up to an inexperienced CM but I also heard it from two other CMs at DHS when we got to talking about my son's GAC and they wanted to see where it was issued.

Has anyone else heard this?

I have to be on a EVC from time off buses to all over the parks until we go home and back to the wheelchair and we have went to GR gotten a medical pass and they never ask a thing. we had all info with us but they did not require that. You just got a poor CM as we have never had a problem. when that happens need to ask for CM manager or GR Manager on the spot. as some are better trained than others on this.

 

[BillSears]

I have to be on a EVC from time off buses to all over the parks until we go home and back to the wheelchair and we have went to GR gotten a medical pass and they never ask a thing. we had all info with us but they did not require that. You just got a poor CM as we have never had a problem. when that happens need to ask for CM manager or GR Manager on the spot. as some are better trained than others on this.

Just curious...what are your needs for a GAC? Different needs may get different responses. I assume there is some sort of problem other than the mobility problems which are solved by using an ECV so the mobility problems would not require a GAC.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I have to be on a EVC from time off buses to all over the parks until we go home and back to the wheelchair and we have went to GR gotten a medical pass and they never ask a thing. we had all info with us but they did not require that. You just got a poor CM as we have never had a problem. when that happens need to ask for CM manager or GR Manager on the spot. as some are better trained than others on this.

see the thing I find with over @ the HM, if you are in a wheelchair, they normally do not give you a hard time, it is when you aren't. I know I don't require a chair, my issues are vision and they just don't understand that I cannot see in the dark at that attraction to walk with everyone else going on the standard line from start to finish... being pushed and shoved in the dark room with no bars or handles to hold onto, then going into the stretching room again with nothing to hold onto.. then into the area that goes from a 10 lane highway to a 1 lane with bottle neck and again pushing and shoving with nothing to hold onto... I have no problems waiting on the outside line.. even in the dark it is ok, they have a rope for me to hold... It all starts once inside...

 

[christymarie]

We have two children on the spectrum with full diagnosis and an Autism service dog to boot so we don't usually have trouble getting a GAC, LOL. I will admit we were questioned much more when I took my higher functioning child in with me and left the dog and the other child outside with my husband. When she started to ask me about issues I had my son bring in my husband and other son, as soon as she saw our $4,000 wheelchair, service dog and my son doing his full fledged autism show we got our GACs immediately.

I'm perfectly fine producing documentation. I carry certification for our service dog as well as our children just in case. It really doesn't bother me and I'd rather have someone ask me than think that we are trying to scam the system. We are able to go to Disney because of the GAC. There is no way we would be able to without it. The boys are just not high functioning enough. I will be happy to jump through any hoops to keep the GAC.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

We have two children on the spectrum with full diagnosis and an Autism service dog to boot so we don't usually have trouble getting a GAC, LOL. I will admit we were questioned much more when I took my higher functioning child in with me and left the dog and the other child outside with my husband. When she started to ask me about issues I had my son bring in my husband and other son, as soon as she saw our $4,000 wheelchair, service dog and my son doing his full fledged autism show we got our GACs immediately.

I'm perfectly fine producing documentation. I carry certification for our service dog as well as our children just in case. It really doesn't bother me and I'd rather have someone ask me than think that we are trying to scam the system. We are able to go to Disney because of the GAC. There is no way we would be able to without it. The boys are just not high functioning enough. I will be happy to jump through any hoops to keep the GAC.

that is exactly how I feel.. I will give you what ever you ask me to.. please ask me.. and I will provide.
Naturally when you go in to ask, you think you are doing the right thing by leaving everyone else outside, but not so. I attribute that to the abuse. While we here all know it happens, no one wants to admit it.

The ADA states you don't have to show proof, so what is happening now is word got out that hey... Disney will give people this card and etc...etc... or Disney rents chairs and you can skip lines (yes I know that is not true, but all don't know that) and the next thing you know, there are people scamming the system..

It is just like the ones who are putting their 4 year old in the stroller stating they are 2 and a half.. Disney doesn't ask for their birth certificate... or the 11 year old who is still only 8 and a half.. again because they don't ask for the birth certificate... there are rotten apples that spoil the batch.... so for me, I will provide what ever you want if it helps cut down on "theft" or scamming the system.

However, in the meantime, if I do have a GAC, please look at it and read it.. don't just grill me @ an attraction then deny me..., let me show you my proof (that you are not suppose to ask for but grill me anyway ) so you will let me move on...

 

[mamacass]

It really breaks my heart to think of a parent teaching their child to act as if they are on the spectrum just so they could get a GAC. How low can you get? It really is deplorable.

We've used the GAC on our last two trips and it really was a godsend. We are planning a trip this Christmas and I like so many other posters am starting to worry that we won't be able to get one. My son will be turning 18 soon, and although his issues are the same as when he was ten, will his age be a factor in being able to use a GAC on this trip?

 

[intheshadows]

Mamacass:
Age is never a factor in considerations for receiving a GAC.
I hope you and your son have a wonderful trip!

 

[ttintagel]

I totally agree! why allow 3 that do not need it for the 1 that does That not only is condoning abuse, it is also making it worse for those that need it. For every 3 people not needing it, those are 3 more wheelchairs/ECV's they may have been available for someone who did need it, or 3 less people that your child would have had to wait behind while your child was having a melt down.. and you were praying the line would go faster... it would if those 3 weren't there and in your case & mine.. that would be 3 less people standing/sitting in the viewing area where we could go to see the parade or fireworks as we might not have another option So, yes, you are totally correct, why should we condone the 3 who abuse to allow the 1 who needs. I say require documentation and it will solve a lot of issues. Anyone who is really not for this may have something to hide.. at least that is how I view it. If you are not ashamed to ask for the GAC, you should not be ashamed to provide the medical reason why.

It's not about condoning. It's about living in the real world. Sure, in some ideal fantasy universe you wouldn't have to choose between denying people with real needs and letting a couple of people who don't slip through. But I don't see any point in not being practical. If Disney has to take on enough extra staff to make the choice unnecessary, the cost of our vacations is going to go up even more.

 

[ttintagel]

I beg to differ.......it can be handled and changed......Do you have a link to show that is not such a large part of the GAC population?...just say it is or is not doesnt prove anything.

Of course not, just as you don't have a link to show it IS. It just makes sense; going to the trouble of faking a disability to get a card which doesn't provide much real benefit to someone who truly doesn't need it doesn't pass the most cursory cost/benefit analysis. If somebody is THAT determined, not even the most draconian "papers, please" mentality is going to stop him. And I prefer to assume the best of most people until proven otherwise; the world's a dark and unfriendly place otherwise.

 

[Keith13]

We are going in November. My son is high functioning but can't wait long. 15 to 20 min max. We got a GAC at Disneyland a couple years ago and it was great. We didnt abuse it. Just used it when there were really long waits or couldnt get a FP. If I can't get a GAC at DW it will cut down on the rides we will be able to go on. It will just cause meltdown after meltdown.

 

[ireland_nicole]

The thing is, if someone is twisted enough to encourage their child to "act autistic" what would keep them from forging a doctors note? I for one don't mind having a note, we use one when flying to explain our kids needs especially when flying overseas but I do have a concern about being at GS and having a CM telling me my son doesn't "look" like he needs a gac. We work really hard to not use it more than necessary, but because of his disabilities can usually only be in the parks about 2-3hours a a time. I wouldn't take him in June but he's a huge star wars nut and wanted to see some of SWW for his birthday. Now I'm almost regretting the decision to being him.

 

[PatsMom]

I am at Disney now - my first trip confined to a wheelchair. I can transfer and have limited mobility. I can't do steps but I can walk on level surfaces for a bit. I have a very visible walking boot on my right foot. That is just the beginning of my medical issues right now, but it is what has put me in the chair finally! I do not have a GAC because I have no need that the GAC would help. I just need an entrance to a ride. The CM's have been awesome so far. Very helpful in telling me where to go to enter the queue or show. But we have a touring plan and we use fastpass. We've been here many times so that makes it much easier than it would be for a new person. And I have my personal chair.

I have always had a lot of respect for parents of special needs children. My four year old niece has Angelman's Syndrome - she is non-ambulatory and non-verbal. But she is a total sweetheart most of the time - the sunniest child you will ever meet. We haven't brought her to Disney but we are hoping to do so after she turns six or so since the specialists say that is when Angelman's children begin to have more normal sleep patterns. Right now she sleeps about 4 hours a night and if you take her out of her routine she won't sleep at all. And that can go on for weeks. The doctors say it is normal for her condition.

We try to teach her to wait but the concept just doesn't exist to her. We have taken her to smaller parks near our home.

I have spent time typing this just so people will understand how ticked off I was at Fantasmic tonight. I love that Disney is so accommodating to special needs kids. I've seen the "stroller as a wheelchair" tag and never questioned it. Tonight I sat in the wheelchair row at Fantasmic. My daughter and husband sat in front of me. Next to me were two little boys, two or three years old, in strollers with tags. They had about 10 people with them I think! A couple of siblings, parents (who lived locally from their conversation) and grandparents and an aunt visiting from out of town. Had nothing to do but listen to them talk while we waited so I know quite a bit about them. Including the fact that the mother got the stroller tags because it was "convenient". She didn't want to make the kids walk or carry them. She told her mother that she just goes to guest services and tells them she needs it. She said they rarely ask why but if they do, she says the kids are autistic and need the strollers to feel safe.

So abuse exists, I saw it today. And is sincerely hope that it won't cause Disney to change their system unless they can come up with a good alternative. The kids who really need the accommodations really need them! To punish them because of some selfish adults would not be a kind thing in my opinion.

Ask for what you need, and if you don't need it, pretend it doesn't exist!

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

It's not about condoning. It's about living in the real world. Sure, in some ideal fantasy universe you wouldn't have to choose between denying people with real needs and letting a couple of people who don't slip through. But I don't see any point in not being practical. If Disney has to take on enough extra staff to make the choice unnecessary, the cost of our vacations is going to go up even more.

The real world is what we make of it. To sit back and just do nothing will only make things worse for everyone.

The more cheaters think they can get away with stuff,the more who will cheat and cause everyone else more problems.

Sorry, I choose not to sit in the dark but to light a BLOW TORCH and find a solution to help everyone! There is always a solution to somthing this simply and I think I posted a pretty good one a while back in this thread.


Based on the posts.....many seem to agree it needs to be addressed and solved.


AKK

 

[mistysue]

Unfortunately, even asking for a doctor's note or a diagnosis isn't going to help anything. Like PP's have alluded to, having a condition does not in any way tell you what a person's needs are. If they ask for a doctor's note, then people are going to be complaining about all the high functioning kids. Or the people with a diagnosis that is usually mild, but have a need are going to have some real trouble.

My daughter has worse meltdowns than many autistic kids and requires more assistance, yet doesn't even have a diagnosis... so if she has a meltdown it shouldn't matter? Yet if somebody has a title it does? One of our million worries about this upcoming trip is what is going to happen with her not having a stroller to go to for the first time. She is just now getting too big to pick up and walk off with when she can't handle things and we haven't had something like a GAC before but it's being considered. The reality is without it we may be stuck in a hotel room for 90% of our trip. But you might not notice right away when you meet her and nobody knows what is going on with her. Other people abusing the system shouldn't mean I get to pay for Disney and not actually go.

A GAC has to be issued for needs, not for people with a medical title. Unfortunately, needs are often subjective and hard to prove so they have to believe you.