Agree to Disagree! DISUnplugged Show March 22!

[Royal Consort]

The point I was trying to make was I hate all the "new" add-ons. That aren't "new" they are just rehashing old experiences as something you now have to pay extra for now. If Disney holds a special event like Club Villain, Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party, etc those are additional experiences that provide something extra then what a normal day ticket provides that is completely acceptable, and good for Disney for thinking of new services to provide and make money on.

I am reminded of when businesses found they could sell bottled water!

If Disney wants more of my money then make the ticket prices more expensive, don't give me some tiered experience where I have to count my dollars every time I want to do something. When will Disney World feel like a carnival where I have pay for every experience?

I understand the arguments made on the show regarding the market being a determining factor. It’s certainly correct. If Disney have pushed things too far, the market will respond accordingly. Perhaps.

On the other hand, the argument that Disney is nickel and diming guests is also valid. There’s a slippery slope and I’m reminded of the foot-in-the-door technique (guests are ok with a small and ‘reasonable’ upcharge/loss of a benefit, and only when they agree or accept this change a more significant upcharge/lost benefit will incrementally follow. This makes it more likely that the guest will also accept this). I disagree that this is anything about crowd control. That’s great PR spin but companies are purely profit focused.

I empathise with Steve’s arguments regarding the removal of benefits that were deemed ‘free’. Yet, in a capitalist society it’s important to note that very little is free and I would argue that things like the Magical Express and Extra Magic Hours are already factored in to the high resort costs. I think we’re paying for it anyway. Disney, by introducing a resort fee, are deceptively making guests pay more for what they’ve already paid for! Maybe even for things guests never demanded (i.e. magic bands).

I also think the argument about there being tiered guests is an interesting one. Will there be greater inequality among guests and the way Disney perceive them? I don’t know.

My final observation is one based on values. This is more likely my problem than Disney’s but the message guests may be receiving is ‘’you’re ripe to commercially exploit at every turn and that’s all you are to us’’. Sure, you can make the choice to pay or not and I completely get that. I can afford what Disney is charging without much problem but I dislike that message intensely and it puts me off. Every company perceives guests/customers as revenue but there’s a delicate balance between being subtle and guest focused or overt and bullish. There’s also a line between ‘we charge because we can’ and charging for a good value experience. That message is a powerful one and why I think guests are reacting with hostility about the changes on these boards.

Each panellist made good arguments but I thought it a pity that Steve, Cathy and Theresa didn't quite get a chance to fully articulate their arguments further.

 

[MikeTaylor]

This whole Disney "à la carte" way to experience the parks comes as no surprise to me. Everyone was so mad when I took the stance of "get more privileges when you pay more", but now it seems like that idea would be too reasonable.

EXAMPLE:
Deluxe Villas - from $318 per night
6 FP+ selections, reserved seating at shows, fireworks, EMH, and spa package for adults
Deluxe Resorts - from $289 per night
5 FP+ selections, reserved seating at shows, fireworks, EMH, and spa package for adults
Moderate Resorts - from $166 per night
4 FP+ selections, reserved seating at shows, fireworks, EMH, and 1 free recreational activity for adults
Value Resorts - from $89 per night
3 FP+ selections, standing room at shows, fireworks, and 1 free recreational activity at resort location for adults
Campgrounds - from $52 per night
2 FP+ selections, standing room at shows, no dining plan offered

Takes care of the problem where people book 10 guests at Ft. Wilderness and never step foot on site.

 

[AdamEfimoff]

@MikeTaylor But this is why I am going to Four Seasons. Not many if any resorts fees. Nice big rooms without the silly need to upgrade. Like Aulani Hawaii and tbh the difference in price between the Four Seasons and many Disney luxury hotels is little or without the fees and charges they have next to the same amount. I also hate being nickle and dimed.

But I do think having a 6 hour night pass for 50 dollars ( I know they are charging way more for less hours) is not a bad idea. it will help spread the crowds. And the people that cannot will have less people in the park anyway and more spread out.

 

[AdamEfimoff]

This whole Disney "à la carte" way to experience the parks comes as no surprise to me. Everyone was so mad when I took the stance of "get more privileges when you pay more", but now it seems like that idea would be too reasonable.

EXAMPLE:
Deluxe Villas - from $318 per night
6 FP+ selections, reserved seating at shows, fireworks, EMH, and spa package for adults
Deluxe Resorts - from $289 per night
5 FP+ selections, reserved seating at shows, fireworks, EMH, and spa package for adults
Moderate Resorts - from $166 per night
4 FP+ selections, reserved seating at shows, fireworks, EMH, and 1 free recreational activity for adults
Value Resorts - from $89 per night
3 FP+ selections, standing room at shows, fireworks, and 1 free recreational activity at resort location for adults
Campgrounds - from $52 per night
2 FP+ selections, standing room at shows, no dining plan offered

Takes care of the problem where people book 10 guests at Ft. Wilderness and never step foot on site.

I think that is very unlikely to happen at base rate. Maybe at additional cost but at base rate. Disney is not that kind

 

[MikeTaylor]

It would be after the next price hike, I think there will eventually be a "required" purchase of either: a tour; a dining package; or an additional "add-on" that will make that reservation "qualify" for the "extra(s)".

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

I think the problem was that Kevin is so far removed from what Steve was discussing he just couldn't get it. A single male has massive money to spend. He stated he likes LV bags, right there you know his income bracket. He doesn't have a family living on an average income. He's a single male. He can't and doest want to get it.

 

[onetoescape]

If I could pay for good spot for the parade, fireworks etc and was it reasonably priced I would buy them. My time on holiday is to valuable to waste sitting round to stake out a good spot to watch these events.

 

[DisneyKevin]

I think the problem was that Kevin is so far removed from what Steve was discussing he just couldn't get it. A single male has massive money to spend. He stated he likes LV bags, right there you know his income bracket. He doesn't have a family living on an average income. He's a single male. He can't and doest want to get it.

Actually, Steve is single and I am married.

 

[pontikes67]

I think the problem was that Kevin is so far removed from what Steve was discussing he just couldn't get it. A single male has massive money to spend. He stated he likes LV bags, right there you know his income bracket. He doesn't have a family living on an average income. He's a single male. He can't and doest want to get it.

i don't know that marital status matters. Age, might. Steve is a younger man starting out in the world and Kevin is 50 something, married and established financially.

That being said, I think it's just a matter of opinion. I'm married with kids and established financially as well but I tend to agree with Steve, but it's just my opinion like its Steve's opinion and Kevin's, Teresa's etc.

Your perception is your reality.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Jackie, God bless you girl!!!!! I was thinking the EXACT same thing during the whole debate yesterday. LOL. This isn't about profits, Disney will always make profits, the name of the game is to deter as many people as possible from coming to the parks cause they're simply too full. Nobody on the show mentioned that at all and I think that would've ended the debate completely. Everybody is going to have a difference in opinion about this but I'ma cut through all the bull and get right to the nitty gritty. The fact that everybody is having this debate is EXACTLY what Disney WANTS to happen. The anger about charging for what was once free conveniences is EXACTLY what Disney WANTS. And get this everybody.....We as Disney fans are going to pay the charges no matter what, why? Because we're DISNEY FANS!!!!! There's nothing on this planet that can compete with the entertainment Disney provides through their theme parks & resorts around the world, period. I'm not happy about them being on the verge of charge for FPs, Magical Express, etc just like everybody else. But you know what? If I have to pay it, so be it cause I know that my money is going to be valuable in that it helps me get my Disney fix, it pays the CMs, and most of all, helps Disney create & build even MORE experiences that will benefit us in the future such as Star Wars Land AND help make the crowd levels more manageable. I'm looking at the bigger picture here people, the crowds will diminish to a more controllable level because Disney is extremely good at reining in aspects that are getting out of control. So at the end of the day, everybody is right to a certain degree no matter what Disney decides to do. Let's just not lose sight of the fact that this isn't a money game cause Disney will get plenty of it, this is about having a lot of us stay the hell away from the parks. And MAN, is it going to work perfectly. LOL.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on that point. As a publicly traded company this is always a money game - Bob Iger's number one job is to maximize shareholder value ... now, with Disney's brand name he needs to take a longer term view than some other CEO's but it is still about maximizing long term profits. They absolutely do not want people to "stay the hell away from the parks" -rather they want to increase the number of sold tickets - and by having hard ticketed events (be it these extra hours or the Christmas or Halloween parties) you are now selling 2 tickets to the same park on the same day

I agree with you that many Disney fans will still pay the money - but one thing to keep in mind is that people that frequent boards like this and talk about Disney all the time represent about 2% of the crowds at Walt Disney World - some people show up and don't even know there are 4 different theme parks. And the one thing Disney wants to avoid is people coming back from their trips complaining about the experience and now their neighbors that were considering a trip decide not to go. So they are walking a fine line with how to maximize additional revenues while at the same time minimizing the decrease to crowds.

 

[disneysteve]

I have no problem with premium events and opportunities ... as long as they're not taking anything away from those who can't afford (or don't want) to pay those prices. When you start taking away my ability to experience something because you want to only offer that opportunity to people who are willing to pay big bucks for it. If this $150 after hours event is in addition to EMH (and EMH are still included for onsite guests), I have no problem with it. But if they start taking away EMH and instead offering the paid after dark as the only way to stay past the regular park hours ... I will be more than a little disappointed.

I have mixed reactions to your post, Sarah. I totally agree with the part I bolded. I am fine with premium experiences as long as they don't take anything away from me. You want to do a character meal. Great. We aren't about to spend $40/person for lunch. But you doing CRT doesn't affect us.

EMH, however, is also a premium experience. You pay for it when you choose to spend significantly more to stay at a Disney hotel. But again, that doesn't affect us in any way while we choose to spend far less and stay offsite (in much nicer accommodations).

Some people get preferred seating for Fantasmic by doing the dining package. But we still get to walk in and see the show without spending that extra money. If some people now pay $35 to park at MK, that doesn't stop us from spending $20 and hopping on the tram. If some people will now pay extra for reserved seating for fireworks, that has no affect on us being able to watch the show from anywhere else. The $150 after hours party is no different to me than the Halloween and Christmas parties. It's paying extra for a premium experience.

Now if they started charging for something that anyone can currently do, like character greetings, and the only way to do that involved paying the fee, that I would have a problem with.

 

[Justin91]

I agree with Kevin. When my family of three can afford to go, about every 3 or 4 years, we must make decisions on what we want to spend our saved money on. This year we purchased several "add-ons" like the wishes desert party and couple of others that we felt the time saved and the convenience of nice seating outweighed the cost. If we did not have the extra money, we would have opted to scout a good spot and wait the time needed to see a good view of Wishes. I think at its base level EVERYONE gets to experience the same magic, and that is if you can afford to be at DW in the first place. Once there, if there are certain things you want to do that is complimentary, ie. special seating or events, then I am completely fine with that.

Also, there are many times my son will see a commercial for Disney world, or a toy for that matter that is just not in the budget and we have to say no, not this year. There are also times when we can say yes though!

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Now if they started charging for something that anyone can currently do, like character greetings, and the only way to do that involved paying the fee, that I would have a problem with.

I spent a bit of time thinking more about this and the different side (because I do think there is validity to both sides) and I think if reading between the lines of what was said on the podcast and what has been written here by Steve and others is not necessarily what has been done or rumored to happen - but the road this could be leading down and what could happen in the future

I think as long as all the extra charges for are for premium events or preferred seating, etc. that is one things and, personally I think fine for Disney to try and provide this for people willing to pay it. If in the future though it becomes that you have to pay extra money to stay late every night in the MK and if you don't you are unable to see Wishes at all, then that is something else. Or if you have to pay for Photopass if you want a picture with Mickey at all. And I think the fear is what is happening now will lead to that

 

[disneysteve]

I spent a bit of time thinking more about this and the different side (because I do think there is validity to both sides) and I think if reading between the lines of what was said on the podcast and what has been written here by Steve and others is not necessarily what has been done or rumored to happen - but the road this could be leading down and what could happen in the future

I think as long as all the extra charges for are for premium events or preferred seating, etc. that is one things and, personally I think fine for Disney to try and provide this for people willing to pay it. If in the future though it becomes that you have to pay extra money to stay late every night in the MK and if you don't you are unable to see Wishes at all, then that is something else. Or if you have to pay for Photopass if you want a picture with Mickey at all. And I think the fear is what is happening now will lead to that

Exactly. It was only speculation on the show that this could lead to them making certain things fee-only. I don't think that's even a rumor at this point - just wild "what if" kind of thinking.

Pete and I think Kevin discussed Photopass issues on a recent show, complaining that the Photopass photographers were monopolizing the best camera angles. As I recall, Pete had an issue trying to photograph a topiary with the Disney photographer trying to stop him and say he would take the picture for him. And Kevin was scolded for photographing a character at a meet and greet. Were those rogue incidents or a sign of things to come? Who knows but I understand where the speculation is coming from.

 

[JJZMgailey]

EMH, however, is also a premium experience. You pay for it when you choose to spend significantly more to stay at a Disney hotel. But again, that doesn't affect us in any way while we choose to spend far less and stay offsite (in much nicer accommodations).

That new $149 MK party is scheduled on nights that MK doesn't have EMH so it's got me thinking that they're not at all looking to take that away from Resort Guests, but to add the option (for a cost) for those staying off property.

 

[disneysteve]

That new $149 MK party is scheduled on nights that MK doesn't have EMH so it's got me thinking that they're not at all looking to take that away from Resort Guests, but to add the option (for a cost) for those staying off property.

True, but that also means the park will close early that day to accommodate the party. That does affect guests not staying for the party to some extent.

 

[popeboy]

The bottom line for me (as was stated by several others earlier) is that this, along with all the other changes that have been coming recently (actualized or rumored) seem to be eroding the differences between the Disney parks and just about all the others (Six Flags, Cedar Fair parks, even Universal). By not monetizing and tiering everything they set themselves apart from the pack. I'm completely aware that they are a corporation with share holders that need to increase revenue every year... it was just a nicer experience when it was kept behind the curtain. If you want to keep the facade of a magical experience, don't show me how the sausage is made.
That is why this trend is disappointing and I can relate that it makes some feel sad. It feels like the start to the end of an era.

 

[pontikes67]

True, but that also means the park will close early that day to accommodate the party. That does affect guests not staying for the party to some extent.

Yes, but the park hours vary so long as you know the hours before punching your ticket, it becomes a planning thing. if we're not doing MVMCP but want to do MK we plan for that to be our day that we do Rope Drop and not take a break in the afternoon.

 

[disneysteve]

If you want to keep the facade of a magical experience, don't show me how the sausage is made.

I love this quote.

 

[JJZMgailey]

A single male has massive money to spend. He stated he likes LV bags, right there you know his income bracket. He doesn't have a family living on an average income. He's a single male. He can't and doest want to get it.

I'm not so sure that it's fair to judge like this - everyone comes from different walks of life regardless of their marital status. Just because one is a single male certainly does not mean that he has massive money to spend. Some people are independently wealthy while others have worked very hard to get to where they are. I mentioned earlier in this thread that we all choose what we spend our money on - just because someone has expensive taste doesn't mean that they're wealthy - it just means that they've chosen their priorities for their own family. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not so thrilled about all of this nickel and diming either - but at least we still have the choice to forego some of these 'additions' that are showing up.

Years ago when our kids were small, we didn't have the income we have now - DH was still in school, etc. Some people would've thought we were out of our minds to spend the amount of money we spent for a Disney vacation. But, we did it because we didn't do one single thing the rest of the year. We didn't go to movies in the theaters, for example; we waited for them to come out on Netflix . . . making choices like that made vacation possible.