RESALE POLICY CHANGE!

[VGF Ben]

I saw this coming a mile away...figured you guys would be up in a lather about it...being that this place is resale central...When you add these "extras" up over the course of 40-50 years, it amounts to a LOT of money. It's debatable whether the savings off of the purchase alone can offset it. I suppose it depends on how many in your family, but Pass discounts, TiW, Restaurant, merchandise discounts, not to mention conveniences like the new Epcot Lounge and TOTWL....puts things in a new perspective, no?

From a business perspective, they were foolish to wait this long to do this. I expect resale prices will take a bit of a hit as a result...and that may have been why they held off as their direct sales can certainly be effected by retention of value through resale....

Still....entirely expected.

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

If TOWL and Pool Hopping are still available, could it be that they are continuing benefits that are internal to DVC and paid for through dues, while stopping benefits that must be negotiated with other stovepipes in Disney?

 

[Budshark]

That's what I understand and also have heard if you combine points it doesn't help with workaround.

I highly doubt that. The point of this is to get more people to buy direct, it is the only advantage it gives DVC. Plus the discounts and such are not dependent on your staying at Disney at all. Going that far would be very difficult to track. Also disney is hesitant to use magic bands for that, since it opens the door for discounts to be applied automatically which would cost them money.

So which is it? I'm curious because I wanted an Epcot area resort, which obviously is not easy and illogical to buy direct. I have a Poly contract... so am I stuck buying Poly for more points or can I now buy a resale since I'm already in? I'll have a card from my Poly contract, so restricting the card won't work for me.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I suppose it depends on how many in your family, but Pass discounts, TiW, Restaurant, merchandise discounts, not to mention conveniences like the new Epcot Lounge and TOTWL....puts things in a new perspective, no?

Not necessarily, and not for everyone.

For instance, right now, if someone who regularly wants to book 2BR units wants to buy, which Active Direct Resort do you think they should opt for to best get 11-month bookings on property at WDW? Poly? Aulani?

For those who view DVC as a timeshare real estate interest whose primary value is in the home resort booking + DVD property access on an as-available basis, not a lot will change. For those who want non-studios on property, or who honeymooned at Boardwalk and now have the financial wherewithal to buy a contract with home resort at BWV, direct remains a pretty dicey proposition.

All benefits are subject to change, save the real estate interest. Hopefully, these changes wake people up to that.

 

[TisBit]

If TOWL and Pool Hopping are still available, could it be that they are continuing benefits that are internal to DVC and paid for through dues, while stopping benefits that must be negotiated with other stovepipes in Disney?

I personally think that TOWL might be an issue with how it is paid for. If it is is paid for with any portion of dues money (I wouldn't be surprised if it does have something in there for maintenance, etc) than they would run into issues restricting it.

As for pool hopping, this is something that I don't think DVC cares about and is rarely used/enforced anyway. All the new resorts already restrict it and the truth be told people pool hop all the time that aren't DVC members and not even staying on site. Pool hopping has been so diminished with the restrictions at the new resorts, I don't see it even being a benefit anymore.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

If TOWL and Pool Hopping are still available, could it be that they are continuing benefits that are internal to DVC and paid for through dues, while stopping benefits that must be negotiated with other stovepipes in Disney?

This is exactly what I keep referring to with so many of the "extra benefits!" that are subject to change. Even for "direct members," DVD lacks full control over many benefits for the life of contract, and may not even get a lot of special consideration from other silos within the parent company.

 

[TisBit]

Not necessarily, and not for everyone.

For instance, right now, if someone who regularly wants to book 2BR units wants to buy, which Active Direct Resort do you think they should opt for to best get 11-month bookings on property at WDW? Poly? Aulani?

For those who view DVC as a timeshare real estate interest whose primary value is in the home resort booking + DVD property access on an as-available basis, not a lot will change. For those who want non-studios on property, or who honeymooned at Boardwalk and now have the financial wherewithal to buy a contract with home resort at BWV, direct remains a pretty dicey proposition.

All benefits are subject to change, save the real estate interest. Hopefully, these changes wake people up to that.

Isn't DVC still selling sold out resort? I know it is more limited, no discounts and as available....but if the demand goes up for these other properties, that means DVC will exercise ROFR more often to get the points back. Which in turn elevates the resale market as well because any low cost contracts will be the first to be ROFR'd.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Isn't DVC still selling sold out resort? I know it is more limited, no discounts and as available....but if the demand goes up for these other properties, that means DVC will exercise ROFR more often to get the points back. Which in turn elevates the resale market as well because any low cost contracts will be the first to be ROFR'd.

Could happen. But that's been threatened for years, and I suspect it's harder to turn around some of the ROFR property shares than just numbers.

 

[TisBit]

Could happen. But that's been threatened for years, and I suspect it's harder to turn around some of the ROFR property shares than just numbers.

I am just pointing out that the people that are claiming that new buyers don't have options, do in fact have options. I don't see ROFR going up significantly, just like I don't see the resale market going away. Regardless of the restrictions there will always be people that want to save the money even if they get what is bar minimum required by the contract.

As I said before, just like there will always be people that refuse to buy a car new in order to save from the initial depreciation, there will also always be people that would pay a premium for the added benefits of buying a brand new car vs used.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Very good points, but most of the guides do not spiel the 50 point master contract option until they see the person either doesn't have the money or won't spend the $. I would hate it if they dropped the minimum for a master contract lower than it already is. 25 point add-ons have been the norm as long as I can remember & I've been a member a very, very long time. I cannot count the unhappy members I've spoken to (or read about on various forums) that have one of those tiny amounts of points as their entire membership and then find it incredibly difficult to book something. If they are going to bank/borrow they certainly can get 3 years worth of points together so in that scenario it would work more effectively.

Don't forget the time when DVC got a bit cocky and announced no 25 point add-ons at BLT, that the minimum was 50. That lasted about a month.

I think the loss of theme park ticket (AP) discounts, the discount on the Tables in Wonderland card, and the dining and shopping discounts are the biggest loss to resale purchasers.

As I've pointed out these benefits actually weren't there at the start, are fairly new, especially the Tables in Wonderland which started what, four years ago? And the shopping discounts? We've had APs long enough that I don't really recall when DVC started getting shopping discounts but I know they haven't always had those either. And of course even AP holders have gotten downgraded where the premiums used to get 20% now they get the same 10% as everybody else. Dining discounts? Newer. DVC APs? Maybe 10 years old? So, DVC is just bringing it back down for resale buyers to where it's been in the past. And it could happen to all of us in the future.

So which is it? I'm curious because I wanted an Epcot area resort, which obviously is not easy and illogical to buy direct. I have a Poly contract... so am I stuck buying Poly for more points or can I now buy a resale since I'm already in? I'll have a card from my Poly contract, so restricting the card won't work for me.

I think you've answered your own question. You've bought direct, you have your card, you've got your access. Anything you add on just comes with restrictions but since these particular restrictions are not about point use you're fine. The changes in March 2011 actually affected how you used your points but these don't.

 

[WDWGeek1971]

Wow! I'm just glad I bought on resale last year. The discount on the AP was what cinched the deal for me. Now though, I've had some of the Kool-Aide, I have to say, that at least for me, ownership makes sense even at full price. I'm still cheap, though. Maybe this will send retail prices back down, so I can buy even more on resale? Time will tell.

Also on the DVC member site, they are promising DVC pricing at A'ulani and the Poly will be going up:

The price increases from $168 to $171 per Vacation Point at these Disney Vacation Club Resorts on June 1, 2016.​

 

[ColonialMouse]

I keep reading people saying that Membership Extras are only going away for people who purchase April 4 or later. But reading MEADSfinal.pdf, what it says is:

"“Member” as used in this Statement shall mean a Purchaser who has acquired an Ownership Interest directly from DVD"

and

"Disney and Concierge Collections options are not available for ownership interests not purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc. after March 21, 2011, and, effective April 4, 2016, Members who have not purchased an ownership interest directly from DVD will not have access to Membership Extras."

It very specifically doesn't say that Extras aren't available for those who purchase after April 4, it just says resale buyers do not have access to Membership Extras. Unless there's something in writing elsewhere, I don't see anything supporting that this isn't a retroactive change on all resale buyers.

What am I missing?

Bruce

 

[davper]

Members who have not purchased

My notice reads 'effective April 4, 2016, Members who do not purchase their ownership interest directly from Disney Vacation Club'
The have and the do is what makes it not retroactive.

 

[avidadventurer]

I doubt that is what would happen. Discounts like the 10% merchandise discount at WDW stores, the AP discounts, the TIW card, the golf discount, and the dining discounts, all currently apply regardless of whether you are even staying at a DVC resort or even on site. So Disney would have to first adopt a rule that all the discounts depend on your staying at a DVC resort, and, if it did so, that would change the applicability of the discounts to pre- 4/4/16 owners, which DVD claims it is not doing.

Get ready for that to happen.

 

[avidadventurer]

I think debating the 24 point add on is kind of fruitless, as it will be DVC to close the loophole if they choose. But your reply actually brings up a better question. If resale purchasers after today are basically not part of the "club" and all of its perks. Does that mean that any contracts they attempt to buy directly from DVC could also not "count" as add on contracts.

The scenario being played out by people is you go out and buy a 150 point contract on the re sale market, then purchase a 25 point add on to that contract from DVC. But couldn't DVC just as easily tell you no, you must purchase the "minimum" contract that any non owner must purchase first, before you can do an add on. I would think the small contract add on is just as much of a benefit/perk as anything else. Disney does not have to offer it to anyone, so they could theoretically exclude resale purchasers from that as well.

I bet it will be a 50/50 mix more than likely...

 

[avidadventurer]

I saw a comment from MS that confirmed any resale after 4/4 wouldn't get a card.

That is correct, I just called and was told that!

 

[WebmasterDoc]

I keep reading people saying that Membership Extras are only going away for people who purchase April 4 or later. But reading MEADSfinal.pdf, what it says is:

"“Member” as used in this Statement shall mean a Purchaser who has acquired an Ownership Interest directly from DVD"

and

"Disney and Concierge Collections options are not available for ownership interests not purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc. after March 21, 2011, and, effective April 4, 2016, Members who have not purchased an ownership interest directly from DVD will not have access to Membership Extras."

It very specifically doesn't say that Extras aren't available for those who purchase after April 4, it just says resale buyers do not have access to Membership Extras. Unless there's something in writing elsewhere, I don't see anything supporting that this isn't a retroactive change on all resale buyers.

What am I missing?

Bruce

The notice in your online account includes the following statement:
"Please know that as a current Disney Vacation Club Member (regardless of when or where you bought your membership), your access to Disney Differences and these additional Membership Extras will not be affected by this policy change."

This is similar to the language included when the Disney/Concierge Collection limitations were announced in March, 2011. All current members will not see any change in there use of DVC. All future resale closings will be included in these restrictions. For those current members who purchase resale, the contracts you already own will continue to receive the same benefits they did yesterday.

Unless DVC decides to NOT allow future resale purchasers to make direct add-ons or places a restriction on the number of direct points that will be needed to gain these benefits even those resale purchasers will still be able to benefit from the Membership Extras. I will be shocked if DVD/DVC decides to deny or limit direct purchase add-ons to these future resale contracts.

Stay tuned!

 

[LenInMaine]

Vero is going around $55-$60. But higher dues ($8.08).

The next thing will be restricting rentals.

I'm honestly surprised this hasn't happened. Maybe they feel it doesn't have enough of an effect to upset some owners.

I keep reading people saying that Membership Extras are only going away for people who purchase April 4 or later. But reading MEADSfinal.pdf, what it says is:

"“Member” as used in this Statement shall mean a Purchaser who has acquired an Ownership Interest directly from DVD"

and

"Disney and Concierge Collections options are not available for ownership interests not purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc. after March 21, 2011, and, effective April 4, 2016, Members who have not purchased an ownership interest directly from DVD will not have access to Membership Extras."

It very specifically doesn't say that Extras aren't available for those who purchase after April 4, it just says resale buyers do not have access to Membership Extras. Unless there's something in writing elsewhere, I don't see anything supporting that this isn't a retroactive change on all resale buyers.

What am I missing?

Bruce

The letter on the member site. It clearly states that changes will only effect those buying resale after 4/4. Also, many have already confirmed this with MS. If you scroll through the thread you'll see quoted conversations. While I agree what you posted seems to leave wiggle room. Maybe that's why DVC is clarifying it.

 

[tjkraz]

It very specifically doesn't say that Extras aren't available for those who purchase after April 4, it just says resale buyers do not have access to Membership Extras. Unless there's something in writing elsewhere, I don't see anything supporting that this isn't a retroactive change on all resale buyers.

What am I missing?

Bruce

It says two things:

1) Resale buyers after March 21, 2011 do not receive access to the Disney Collection, Concierge Collection and Adventurer Collection
2) Resale buyers after April 4, 2016 do not receive access to member perks

Those who bought after 3/21/11 still get the perks. Those who buy after 4/4/16 will be ineligible for all.

 

[Kimly]

Disney just trying to close loop holes to get more money, am I shocked? No. But I'm happy we bought our resale contract a few years ago. Even without the "member benefits" resale is still a much better deal.

 

[Franzenel]

I am all closed just wait for my number. From what I am reading I should be all good right?