To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

Elliptical definitely takes some getting used to. It's not the same as running, but it's better than nothing, especially since this calf thing doesn't seem to be figuring itself out.

I hope the appointment with the PA brings you some good (or at least helpful) news!
 
I think the hardest thing about trying to deal with an injury is determining when to dial it back. Sometimes powering through minor aches and pains works perfectly because they go away. With my knee acting up, I found that powering through only resulted in setbacks.
 
Thanks! All of this resonates quite a bit for me. Thankfully never had the fingers turn blue/purple. Obviously avoiding the cold (certainly easier said than done) and getting gloves for driving are good ideas. I've had the episodes of shivering post running as well and the onset usually isn't immediate. It usually occurs 30-45 min after the run is over and I've been in the house for awhile. This is all great stuff. Thanks again!

A good reason not to put off seeing someone to determine if you really do have Raynaud's is that the more "attacks" you have - the episodes of numbness - then the more attacks you're likely to have and the worse they will get. Definitely a positive feedback loop. Even though medication doesn't treat the root cause, preventing the symptoms (the numbness) will at least stop the loop. This is also a reason to get ahead of the cycle, so to speak, by layering and making sure to keep warm.

And now for the funny part... calcium-channel blockers are medications usually used for various heart conditions. Raynaud's is a secondary sort of thing for them to treat. But one lesser-known calcium-channel blocker that may be tried after more traditional ones fail is...Viagra! ha. Unfortunately for my mom, the typical C-C blockers aren't effective for her Raynaud's, but her doctor couldn't get her insurance to pay for the Viagra in order to try it, her being female and all. Stupid administration rules.
 
My current thoughts (which mean's its certainly possible it will change) on cross training are the following. Some people do it on their current plans and I work around it. Doing cross training in addition to running will make you a better athlete and fitter in general. But if you're limited for time (as are many of the people I work with), then if your goal is an "A" race for time more running is likelier to make you a better runner than will a combination of cross/run. I take it on a case by case basis, but don't actually schedule any cross-training. I just tell them to continue whatever they're currently doing. One trap I don't want people to fall into is to fill in the off/recovery running days with a hard cross training day. At that point, someone might fall into the same "Survive the training, and not thrive because of it" trap. Now once someone starts to maximize running gains or amount of time I'm willing to schedule for running, then they can look towards cross as a place to make additional gains. Also, if someone is in an offseason from racing (which when does that happen for a lot of recreational runners) is a great time to try some new cross training to make additional gains. But, I'm always open to learning new things.
Thanks for the full response. I remember reading somewhere about the sport specific gains potentially being greatest when the majority of training was specific to that sport. I've always kind of wondered how that jived with the Furman Institute's studies. I also wondered if there was a threshold where general cross training for a portion of the days would result in similar gain with support specific gains just because of the cardio improvement. I know when I first started running, running was a side thing. I was working with a PT doing weird strength routines. When I transitioned from that to mainly running for my training my pace gradually went up for shorter distances. All I think that shows is that for me hard cardio/strength workouts are more effective at cardio conditioning than only running at a low heart rate.

Hope the docs are able to get to a conclusive diagnosis.
 
A good reason not to put off seeing someone to determine if you really do have Raynaud's is that the more "attacks" you have - the episodes of numbness - then the more attacks you're likely to have and the worse they will get. Definitely a positive feedback loop. Even though medication doesn't treat the root cause, preventing the symptoms (the numbness) will at least stop the loop. This is also a reason to get ahead of the cycle, so to speak, by layering and making sure to keep warm.

And now for the funny part... calcium-channel blockers are medications usually used for various heart conditions. Raynaud's is a secondary sort of thing for them to treat. But one lesser-known calcium-channel blocker that may be tried after more traditional ones fail is...Viagra! ha. Unfortunately for my mom, the typical C-C blockers aren't effective for her Raynaud's, but her doctor couldn't get her insurance to pay for the Viagra in order to try it, her being female and all. Stupid administration rules.

Thanks! This is all good info to keep in mind and an even better reason it was best to go sooner rather than later. The frequency of episodes has absolutely been increasing.

Thanks for the full response. I remember reading somewhere about the sport specific gains potentially being greatest when the majority of training was specific to that sport. I've always kind of wondered how that jived with the Furman Institute's studies. I also wondered if there was a threshold where general cross training for a portion of the days would result in similar gain with support specific gains just because of the cardio improvement. I know when I first started running, running was a side thing. I was working with a PT doing weird strength routines. When I transitioned from that to mainly running for my training my pace gradually went up for shorter distances. All I think that shows is that for me hard cardio/strength workouts are more effective at cardio conditioning than only running at a low heart rate.

Hope the docs are able to get to a conclusive diagnosis.

The question would be whether under a direct comparison of a well developed running training plan versus a well developed Furman plan if the difference in performance is noticeable.

Pace went "up" for shorter distances as in you got "slower"? Dependent on the type of cross training it would make sense that some serious strength/power would be beneficial for short distances like the 5k. Even more so for shorter distances like 100-400m. But the rule of specificity within running still plays a role. So to be optimally prepared for a 5k, the recent training should be focused on that. Less 5k work prior to a 5k would yield a slower 5k performance.
 
No news at the moment from the doctor. I went in for three things:

-Pale fingers (Raynaud's?)
-Sore calf
-Weird bumps underneath the skin of my hands

They seemed to be most concerned with the bumps on the hands. Scheduled me for a ridiculous number of blood/urine tests to test everything under the sun. So still a work in progress. The only recommendation is that since they don't know the issue at the moment (whether they are all connected or not) that I shouldn't run until we get it figured out (or narrowed down). Never make it easy on them when I visit I guess.
 
No news at the moment from the doctor. I went in for three things:

-Pale fingers (Raynaud's?)
-Sore calf
-Weird bumps underneath the skin of my hands

They seemed to be most concerned with the bumps on the hands. Scheduled me for a ridiculous number of blood/urine tests to test everything under the sun. So still a work in progress. The only recommendation is that since they don't know the issue at the moment (whether they are all connected or not) that I shouldn't run until we get it figured out (or narrowed down). Never make it easy on them when I visit I guess.

Weird bumps under the skin of your hands? That's well, weird. Did you mention that earlier?

I have a lot of respect for doctors and people in the medical profession, but I'm continually frustrated by attempts to "head off" potentially bigger problems by seeing a doctor when the problem seems small. If I go in for any issue I'm concerned about early on, I get "Well, you must be doing OK because you're running X miles a week and playing so much tennis." Sigh.

Regarding the calf, I bet you got some variation of "You just ran how many races in four days? And you're wondering why you have a sore calf?" :) Even though clearly you know something is not right.

Hopefully the blood tests will shed some light. I'll be hoping for the best, although I'm not sure what that would be in this situation - maybe that everything goes away overnight sometime soon?
 
Weird bumps under the skin of your hands? That's well, weird. Did you mention that earlier?

I didn't. Wasn't really running related and up until now I never considered it part of a possible bigger problem (still could be completely unrelated, but might as well give the doc all the signs and symptoms). Started in October and has been getting progressively worse

Pic if you really want to see:

IMG_1467.JPG

I have a lot of respect for doctors and people in the medical profession, but I'm continually frustrated by attempts to "head off" potentially bigger problems by seeing a doctor when the problem seems small. If I go in for any issue I'm concerned about early on, I get "Well, you must be doing OK because you're running X miles a week and playing so much tennis." Sigh.

I get that. On the other side of the coin, I had two family friends go in for something they thought was small but maybe something that needed to get checked. Both were told it wasn't something to worry too much about. The one decided to get a second opinion and it turned out through a battery of tests that they had a rare form of deadly cancer. They're undergoing experimental treatment now and it sounds like things may work out. I don't remember the full story with the other person, but the short of it is they ended up dead within a few weeks. Whatever they had or was misdiagnosed with could have been caught with something easy apparently. So, I respect that if they think it's a chance of something to go ahead and do their due diligence. Thankfully in my case, all of the tests so far have come back negative (not finished yet, but so far so good).

Regarding the calf, I bet you got some variation of "You just ran how many races in four days? And you're wondering why you have a sore calf?" :) Even though clearly you know something is not right.

Thankfully they were pretty respectful and understood with my experience that I could tell something doesn't feel right. They wanted to try and solve the other enigma in case it was related first and then we were going to come back to it if they end up being separate issues.

Hopefully the blood tests will shed some light. I'll be hoping for the best, although I'm not sure what that would be in this situation - maybe that everything goes away overnight sometime soon?

I'm hopeful (and somewhat confident) it's all minor things. Time will tell.
 
I'm glad you got to the doctor and that they are taking your concerns seriously. Probably since your symptoms could be attributed to a lot of different things they feel like they need to do a bunch of tests to try and determine whats going on. Hopefully they can find the cause and address it quickly.
 
Are the bumps painful?

Not painful per se. If one is on the finger tip and I push directly on it to type on the computer, then I can tell it's there. If I rub my fingernail across the skin, again it's noticeable. They don't itch. They make the area around them stiff (kinda like if you had a scab on your skin). It started with only 2-3 in October on the right hand. Now there's probably 30-40 on the right hand and a few have started to appear on the left hand. That cluster underneath the ring finger is all new within the last 2-3 weeks.

I'm glad you got to the doctor and that they are taking your concerns seriously. Probably since your symptoms could be attributed to a lot of different things they feel like they need to do a bunch of tests to try and determine whats going on. Hopefully they can find the cause and address it quickly.

Agreed!
 
Not painful per se. If one is on the finger tip and I push directly on it to type on the computer, then I can tell it's there. If I rub my fingernail across the skin, again it's noticeable. They don't itch. They make the area around them stiff (kinda like if you had a scab on your skin). It started with only 2-3 in October on the right hand. Now there's probably 30-40 on the right hand and a few have started to appear on the left hand. That cluster underneath the ring finger is all new within the last 2-3 weeks.
They appear to be subcutaneous, yes? If not, are they flat or raised? Can you "pop" them and if so, do they drain? Blood/clear/pus? Any on the bottom of your feet? Ok I'll stop! Lol
 
They appear to be subcutaneous, yes? If not, are they flat or raised? Can you "pop" them and if so, do they drain? Blood/clear/pus? Any on the bottom of your feet? Ok I'll stop! Lol

Some are subcutaneous and others are raised ever so slightly. I don't dare try to pop them. I haven't seen them on my feet, but honesty I don't look there much at all.
 
Some are subcutaneous and others are raised ever so slightly. I don't dare try to pop them. I haven't seen them on my feet, but honesty I don't look there much at all.
Yea, I definitely wouldn’t “pop” them, but just wondered if they had opened on their own and if so, what drained. Rashes are the worst! So many potential causes and the differential diagnosis is so long. Hard to say if it’s related to your other concerns or not. You didn’t mention joint pain so that’s a plus. Any known tick bites? Also kids carry germs and so many viruses present with nonspecific rashes. Palms are interesting and the duration too?? Ok, I’m really done now!
 
Yea, I definitely wouldn’t “pop” them, but just wondered if they had opened on their own and if so, what drained. Rashes are the worst! So many potential causes and the differential diagnosis is so long. Hard to say if it’s related to your other concerns or not. You didn’t mention joint pain so that’s a plus. Any known tick bites? Also kids carry germs and so many viruses present with nonspecific rashes. Palms are interesting and the duration too?? Ok, I’m really done now!

:rotfl:
 
Glad to hear you are getting expert opinions hope all comes back good. Sorry they have shut down running, but at least they didn't shut down wii remote use given the hand condition. At least Mario Kart is still on the table.:D
 
Some are subcutaneous and others are raised ever so slightly. I don't dare try to pop them. I haven't seen them on my feet, but honesty I don't look there much at all.

So to continue the armchair diagnosis, ha ha. The pics of the palm-bumps remind me of some similar-looking things my mother has.

The doc identified them as telangiectasias. My mother has what used to be called CREST Syndrome, which is an acronym for Calcinosis, Raynaud's, Esophageal Dysmotility, Scleroderma, and Telangiectasias. It's pretty much diagnosed by whether you have multiple of these problems, and she had the R, E, and T at least. The term "CREST Syndrome" is now not favored - it's now called a "limited cutaneous form of systemic sclerosis", because that has a much better ring to it.

At any rate, my mother has the T on her face mostly. The description of the T on the wikipedia page for CREST Syndrome fits your description well. But then T is actually the medical term for "spider veins", and the images of those are not at all helpful for hands. So who knows if that's what you have. I don't think they usually feel raised like bumps, though.

So I can see why the doc might be most worried about the palm-bumps. Those seem like the oddest symptom and possibly may be indicating something deeper and more systemic. All of those sorts of systemic and auto-immune issues are really tricky to diagnose and unfortunately most don't have good treatments, so figuring them out early is key.

And, sheesh...after I wrote all that, I realized I had consistently written about my mom in the past tense for some reason. I had to go change it, because she's still very much alive, active, and healthy 70-yo. :) Don't tell her I did that.
 
Glad to hear you are getting expert opinions hope all comes back good. Sorry they have shut down running, but at least they didn't shut down wii remote use given the hand condition. At least Mario Kart is still on the table.:D

Good call! Focusing on getting ready for G's moon themed birthday party for this weekend too. Might need to earn a Rosalina as an early birthday present!

So to continue the armchair diagnosis, ha ha. The pics of the palm-bumps remind me of some similar-looking things my mother has.

The doc identified them as telangiectasias. My mother has what used to be called CREST Syndrome, which is an acronym for Calcinosis, Raynaud's, Esophageal Dysmotility, Scleroderma, and Telangiectasias. It's pretty much diagnosed by whether you have multiple of these problems, and she had the R, E, and T at least. The term "CREST Syndrome" is now not favored - it's now called a "limited cutaneous form of systemic sclerosis", because that has a much better ring to it.

At any rate, my mother has the T on her face mostly. The description of the T on the wikipedia page for CREST Syndrome fits your description well. But then T is actually the medical term for "spider veins", and the images of those are not at all helpful for hands. So who knows if that's what you have. I don't think they usually feel raised like bumps, though.

So I can see why the doc might be most worried about the palm-bumps. Those seem like the oddest symptom and possibly may be indicating something deeper and more systemic. All of those sorts of systemic and auto-immune issues are really tricky to diagnose and unfortunately most don't have good treatments, so figuring them out early is key.

And, sheesh...after I wrote all that, I realized I had consistently written about my mom in the past tense for some reason. I had to go change it, because she's still very much alive, active, and healthy 70-yo. :) Don't tell her I did that.

Well, that seems about as good a guess as I've seen for sure. The pictures of CREST seem to match my description. Small red bumps, possible calcium deposits, and raynaud's. Seems the doctors might be going down this path as well. They're testing me for a ton of inflammation markers, autoimmune markers, kidney failure, they asked whether I had joint pain or red bumps on my feet, etc. Seems they're going on the same line of thinking. Thus far all of the tests have been negative, but maybe heading in the right direction. Might forward this to them after all the tests come back to get their thoughts. As always, thanks for sharing.
 
As a possible remedy, I'm going to try and wear my Zensah calf compression calf sleeves while running and see if they improve circulation and keep my calfs warm.

I've had calf issues since June (my first PM to you about the plan). Mine is a relatively sharp pain that only bothers me till I'm warmed up, then (mostly) seems to go away. I believe you are on the right track keeping it warm. I wear a neoprene sleeve over my compression socks to add compression and warmth. It may be mental, but it seems to help.

I also have the cold/white fingers while running and driving, so it may be a pattern of 2.
 
I've had calf issues since June (my first PM to you about the plan). Mine is a relatively sharp pain that only bothers me till I'm warmed up, then (mostly) seems to go away. I believe you are on the right track keeping it warm. I wear a neoprene sleeve over my compression socks to add compression and warmth. It may be mental, but it seems to help.

I also have the cold/white fingers while running and driving, so it may be a pattern of 2.

Sole brothers it is! I'm hopeful I get the green light to keep at it because I feel like I'm on the right track.
 

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