Am I the only one underwhelmed by Riviera?

I'm hoping for a major change with the new President of WDW and Iger stepping down in 2021. Maybe the new CEO relives Chapek of his duties
Michael Eisner wasn't bad. He really did a lot for Disney World and Disney parks, the Cruise line and DVC. The Imagineering Story on Disney+ is pretty amazing to watch. Totally Recommend it! Iger definitely seems to be taking a safe round and to appease shareholders more than anything.
 
Michael Eisner wasn't bad. He really did a lot for Disney World and Disney parks, the Cruise line and DVC. The Imagineering Story on Disney+ is pretty amazing to watch. Totally Recommend it! Iger definitely seems to be taking a safe round and to appease shareholders more than anything.
Completely agree! Eisner was the creative mind we needed and Iger is definitely about the bottom line with the charging for things like hotel parking and such.
 
Completely agree! Eisner was the creative mind we needed and Iger is definitely about the bottom line with the charging for things like hotel parking and such.
There is no doubt that Disney is creating future problems for themselves by their pricing strategies for hotels and park tickets, and other policies. In some ways they have made tremendous advancements recently, and in fact for years, under Iger, (such as the Rise of the Resistance ride - though maybe much of that is just technological advances), but Disney has already seriously started to price themselves out of the range of the middle class, and the middle class is the strength of the U.S. If they continue this strategy, Disney World attendance will fall off, future generations just won't care, and Disney merchandising will also suffer.

I understand that they make billions of dollars from movies, and that is likely to continue, considering how many franchises they have. But if other sectors start to fall off, then Disney will have problems they really don't yet imagine.

The driving force behind Disney is the good will of people. The Disney Magic is something special. That is what people want, whether it is at the parks or in the movies or in the merchandise. Once sufficient people become convinced that the Disney Magic is just a money grab, then they will turn their backs on it. They will drop Disney like a hot potato. It will become a mass movement very quickly. And Disney will probably never be able to get all of that good will - and interest in Disney - back.
 
Completely agree! Eisner was the creative mind we needed and Iger is definitely about the bottom line with the charging for things like hotel parking and such.
I wonder if this will truly be the end of Iger or if he will sign another year contract. Who appoints the Next CEO? Is it the Board of Directors?

I honestly think the crowd situation at WDW can only be remedied by building a 5th park.
 


If they continue this strategy, Disney World attendance will fall off, future generations just won't care, and Disney merchandising will also suffer.

Sadly they will continue to Raise prices as long as the parks are packed. And I can't say I don't blame them, supply and demand. Shanghai and Hong Kong Disneyland parks being close from the Coronavirus do not help either with them losing money daily from that and no opening in sight for months I imagine.
 
There is no doubt that Disney is creating future problems for themselves by their pricing strategies for hotels and park tickets, and other policies.

As a shareholder, I approve what they are doing. I have faith in this management. Iger has insane vision for how he capitalized on marvel and star wars among others, for example. The investment in HS/EP is amazing to see and i'm glad they are doing it and will be happy to pay up. There is no where else in the world I can go to experience what is being built there. Prices will increase on anything of value in life, this is a rule. If the price doesn't increase, investors pull capital, stock tanks, and the condition of the parks you enjoy today goes straight in the dump. The reason there is a disney world in 2020 is because the margins are so high and this attracts talent and capital to manage it. Iger's success financially is why the board gives him the green light to invest billions in the parks.

These are the rules of our capital markets... even if a private investor purchased it and ran it like you would like, low pricing, high service, the place would be over-run with crowds, etc. Expansion and maintenance requires billions of capital, it would stagnate and eventually turn into a six-flags.
 


As a shareholder, I approve what they are doing. I have faith in this management. Iger has insane vision for how he capitalized on marvel and star wars among others, for example. The investment in HS/EP is amazing to see and i'm glad they are doing it and will be happy to pay up. There is no where else in the world I can go to experience what is being built there. Prices will increase on anything of value in life, this is a rule. If the price doesn't increase, investors pull capital, stock tanks, and the condition of the parks you enjoy today goes straight in the dump. The reason there is a disney world in 2020 is because the margins are so high and this attracts talent and capital to manage it. Iger's success financially is why the board gives him the green light to invest billions in the parks.

These are the rules of our capital markets... even if a private investor purchased it and ran it like you would like, low pricing, high service, the place would be over-run with crowds, etc. Expansion and maintenance requires billions of capital, it would stagnate and eventually turn into a six-flags.
Im not doubting what hes doing as a whole for the Walt Disney Company. I mean in the parks mostly. Hes making exciting choices but none of it is doing a thing to help crowds or lines. Imo the parks need more rides and not just replacements. GE is great and all and Pandora is wonderful and toy story land but they just need more or crowds are only going to get worse. Idk just my thoughts.
 
As a shareholder, I approve what they are doing. I have faith in this management. Iger has insane vision for how he capitalized on marvel and star wars among others, for example. The investment in HS/EP is amazing to see and i'm glad they are doing it and will be happy to pay up. There is no where else in the world I can go to experience what is being built there. Prices will increase on anything of value in life, this is a rule. If the price doesn't increase, investors pull capital, stock tanks, and the condition of the parks you enjoy today goes straight in the dump. The reason there is a disney world in 2020 is because the margins are so high and this attracts talent and capital to manage it. Iger's success financially is why the board gives him the green light to invest billions in the parks.

These are the rules of our capital markets... even if a private investor purchased it and ran it like you would like, low pricing, high service, the place would be over-run with crowds, etc. Expansion and maintenance requires billions of capital, it would stagnate and eventually turn into a six-flags.

Also as a shareholder, I fully agree with what they are doing regarding Disney+, much of the movies (though enough with the sequels and remakes), and most all aspects of the business except the parks and DVC. Cramming IP into every corner, disregarding sight lines (see the topic of this thread, Riviera), regularly lying about wait times to park guests, creating second class citizens out of resale buyers... I can't get behind any of this. I plan to hold my shares and I don't think what's happening in the parks/DVC is in the best long term interest to us as shareholders. I'm less concerned with the price increases at the parks as I agree with you for the most part, but I am more concerned with the parks direction.
 
Where are these grand DVC lobbies that are referred to in comparison to RVA?

This is lost on me as well. VGF (my personal favorite DVC) has a very small lobby and 2 CMs behind desks. BLT also has a very small lobby. While the ceiling at Kidani is high, I don’t remember that lobby being large there either. Boardwalk also has a small lobby. I could keep going, but I will stop there. I am truly baffled by all the complaining about the lobby. These aren’t 5-star NYC hotels. They are timeshare resorts. Some family members own a very nice condo in Florida in a building that has no lobby, and I’ve never thought about it.

What do people do in the lobby that makes a smaller one so insulting? Even in the grandest lobbies we’ve ever seen, I don’t remember staying in them too long. Maybe I will just never understand this.
 
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This is lost on me as well. VGF (my personal favorite) has a very small lobby and 2 CMs behind desks. BLT also has a very small lobby. While the ceiling at Kidani is high, I don’t remember that lobby being large there either. Boardwalk also has a small lobby. I could keep going, but I will stop there. I am truly baffled by all the complaining about the lobby. These aren’t 5-star NYC hotels. They are timeshare resorts. Some family members own a very nice condo in Florida in a building that has no lobby, and I’ve never thought about it.

What do people do in the lobby that makes a smaller one so insulting? Even in the grandest lobbies we’ve ever seen, I don’t remember staying in them too long. Maybe I will just never understand this.
If you remember, DVC marketting hyped RIV as high end luxury and a cut above the rest. I read comparisons online to GF (not VGF, but GF), these may not have come from DVC in their print materials, but that is what apparently was being said (I believe the DIS referenced this in a show once).

Given all of the hype that put behind this, I and many others was expecting something more grand. I did a quick google search on "disney riviera high end luxury" and the very first link from disneyparks.disney.go.com included the language "In the grand oval lobby that will provide stunning views of the resort lawn and lakefront, guests will encounter a mix of modern and classic furnishings."

Given the grandeur of CVV/WL, AKL-Jambo among other dual use DVC resorts, I certainly expected more.
 
If you remember, DVC marketting hyped RIV as high end luxury and a cut above the rest. I read comparisons online to GF (not VGF, but GF), these may not have come from DVC in their print materials, but that is what apparently was being said (I believe the DIS referenced this in a show once).

Given all of the hype that put behind this, I and many others was expecting something more grand. I did a quick google search on "disney riviera high end luxury" and the very first link from disneyparks.disney.go.com included the language "In the grand oval lobby that will provide stunning views of the resort lawn and lakefront, guests will encounter a mix of modern and classic furnishings."

Given the grandeur of CVV/WL, AKL-Jambo among other dual use DVC resorts, I certainly expected more.

I thought the lobby was very nice. Grand? No. The only “grand” lobby at WDW that I’ve seen is GF. In fairness, I haven’t seen them all.

I do think the restaurants, rooms, and grounds rival all of the nicest Disney hotels, but that’s why we purchased there. Others can feel differently, and they shouldn’t purchase if the resort isn’t living up to their expectations.

I just had a discussion with a friend today who said he really liked staying at VGF with us, but Poly and AKV were more his vibe because he loves the theming at those which is ironic because they are 2 of our least favorite. I have absolutely no interest in any of the FW or WL resorts current or future. The point is that it goes to show that the resorts are all very different because there’s something for everyone. What I love in a resort, someone else may hate and vice versa.
 
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As a longtime shareholder, I must inject some reality into the rose colored glasses people are looking at the Walt, Roy, and Eisner eras.

The company nearly went bankrupt more than once under Walt and Roy and just before they brought in Eisner, the company was about to fall victim to corporate raiders. And though Eisner returned it to glory for much of his tenure, the condition of the parks - peeling paint, ride breakdowns, tired looking rooms, etc, etc. - suffered greatly towards the end of his era.

As for the ever increasing ticket prices, if the parks are packed at these high prices, what do you think would happen at lower prices? This is a supply and demand problem that I think Disney is actually attempting to address with their variable pricing.
 
Where are these grand DVC lobbies that are referred to in comparison to RVA?
The lobbies at Jambo House, Wilderness Lodge and Grand Californian are all world class. I know that NONE of those places is pure DVC, but they all ARE DVC and their lobbies are amazing. I personally am a person who loves to just go sit in the lobby, with my book (or Kindle) and experience the Atmosphere. I did this at Riviera, and there just WASN'T any atmosphere. Our stay last fall was at Jambo House and I put their lobby to good use. Kidani lobby is significantly smaller, but you can't call it small, and when you also add on the animal viewing areas just off the lobby, it is much more attractive than Riviera. Compared to Jambo House, Grand Floridian Lobby is not on the same scale for largeness, but it is very nice. And has atmosphere and class that is TOTALLY lacking at Riviera. The Contemporary Lobby (and open areas around the monorail) counts as part of the DVC at BLT. While we were staying at Riviera, I went over to Boardwalk, along with several members of my family, and we ALL agreed that the Boardwalk lobby was significantly larger, much nicer, and even more beautiful than the 'New Riviera.' Plus their porch to sit out and relax and gaze at the Boardwalk was a very nice addition.

So, on the overall lobby scale for DVC properties, Rivera is definitely towards the bottom. Which is just disappointing for something that Disney tries to market as 'High Class.' It simply ISN'T. And playing Disney songs in French doesn't make up for it.
 
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Where are these grand DVC lobbies that are referred to in comparison to RVA?
This is lost on me as well. VGF (my personal favorite) has a very small lobby and 2 CMs behind desks. BLT also has a very small lobby. While the ceiling at Kidani is high, I don’t remember that lobby being large there either. Boardwalk also has a small lobby. I could keep going, but I will stop there. I am truly baffled by all the complaining about the lobby. These aren’t 5-star NYC hotels. They are timeshare resorts. Some family members own a very nice condo in Florida in a building that has no lobby, and I’ve never thought about it.

What do people do in the lobby that makes a smaller one so insulting? Even in the grandest lobbies we’ve ever seen, I don’t remember staying in them too long. Maybe I will just never understand this.

With BLT, VGF, PVB, AKV,CCV Disney utilised exiting hotel infrastructure and amenities, which all WDW guests (including those staying off site) could access for "free", to sell DVC points. Guests in the "DVC wing" enjoy full use of all the amenities offered by the Contemporary/GF/Poly/AKL/WL resorts. For example, "Bay Lake Tower at Disney's Contemporary Resort" is no less a part of the Contemporary resort than the Garden Wing. To say that these DVC properties have small lobbies does not paint an accurate picture of actual access and usage of the common space and amenities.

On the opposite extreme, imagine Disney execs fantasising about introducing a new gondola loop, cutting down on bus transport costs, raising room rates at CB, AoA, and Pop by adding an attractive transport option and easily accessible new amenities, AND convincing people to pay Disney handsomely for the privilege of funding the projects and paying for the upkeep. Hang on a minute...

I toured Riviera casually interested to add a small contract there. For our family, the resale restriction isn't a deal breaker for a resort we love. Unfortunately, I was underwhelmed. While everything looked lovely, the common space and facilities were too small. I'm puzzled by the high MF - neither the scale of the amenities or the (visible) staffing ratio seems to justify the highest MF of all WDW DVCs.

I want to make it clear that my criticism is toward DVD, and the resort design. Not Riviera buyers. All DVC owners are various degrees of crazy in normal people's eyes. We could all be hiking through the majestic national parks and chased by grizzly bears, absolutely free. If you love the resort and need points now, why not? Congratulations and enjoy your purchase!
 
Not sure it’s a matter of a grand lobby, but this lobby is sub par for me. Appreciate that may not bother some, ironically my wife always says lobbies do not impress her as she has no interest in spending time in one. But this is the only stand alone DVC at WDW aside from SSR (conversion) and OKW - and both of those resorts are massive spread out community style resorts. So this is the only stand alone DVC not connected to a hotel, which is built as an integral hotel.
The connected DVCs generally have a small lobby because guests obviously make use of the main hotel lobby. The best of these is BRV and Kidani- both of which have shrunken down wonderful lobby areas that complement the main building really well- and even though they both have a larger hotel lobby nearby, they both are better than RIV.
If we look at stand alone like Vero, well it’s much grander than RIV again.
I honestly believe RIV lobby was all about revenue maximization and the hotel suffers as a result. Limited amount of land because it was bulldozed moderate land, and a grand lobby costs more and impacts on the bottom line, but also takes up space where rooms and points can go.
On Eisner, I doubt Eisner would have let RIV be built. Eisner specced his hotels like they were going in his own garden, picked the architects and wanted to inject a je ne sais quoi into his properties, which I personally think RIV lacks, despite it being a hybrid of a Euro hotel. Eisner’s hotels left a real legacy.
I’m hoping Reflections once again captures this, but who knows, we may also be left with an underwhelming London style hotel in a forest. I am excited about the concept art, but until I see the materials I’m not sure if it will be built looking cheap or amazing- if you haven’t seen the now masses of concept art including corridors, different rooms etc please google it, it could be amazing.
I am holding on though as a 150 pointer could be coming my way there, if it’s good enough to overcome restrictions- and it will have to be very very good.
 
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Just to remind folks that comparing DVC properties to Disney hotels is not entirely accurate or fair:

1. Lobby is underwhelming. This is supposed to be a deluxe resort. Lobby doesn’t feel that way. It looks like Disney tried to save money here.
It's on par with or slightly better than any other DVC lobby. Remember that GF, WL, AKL, etc are not DVC lobbies, they were built with the original hotels. DVC was added on to those hotels years later.

5. The pool is “OK”. Why does Disney refuse to create signature pools anymore? Poly and BCV both blow it away. It seems like they are afraid that if they make it too nice people will avoid the Theme and water parks.
The BCV pool is very bland and unremarkable. If you're referring to SAB, that was built as part of the BC/YC resort and had nothing to do with DVC construction. Same for the Polynesian pool.
 
Just to remind folks that comparing DVC properties to Disney hotels is not entirely accurate or fair:


It's on par with or slightly better than any other DVC lobby. Remember that GF, WL, AKL, etc are not DVC lobbies, they were built with the original hotels. DVC was added on to those hotels years later.


The BCV pool is very bland and unremarkable. If you're referring to SAB, that was built as part of the BC/YC resort and had nothing to do with DVC construction. Same for the Polynesian pool.
I understand your points but I also see the side that, Why would you make a fancy DVC lobby at a resort that has one already? Both points are Valid.
 
The BCV pool is very bland and unremarkable. If you're referring to SAB, that was built as part of the BC/YC resort and had nothing to do with DVC construction. Same for the Polynesian pool.

The member “quiet” pool is not a fair comparison to any feature pool. And this criticism is not leveled at RIV alone. Save Aulani, pools at most DVC locations are less than they should be.
 
I understand your points but I also see the side that, Why would you make a fancy DVC lobby at a resort that has one already? Both points are Valid.

And the hotel at BWV, it could be argued, uses the member’s BWV lobby. It’s on the DVC side of the resort.
 

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