Is anyone else worried about opening up again

[TLSnell1981]

Elective are being stopped due to vents also. My hospital has 60ish vents in the ICU. We are using 55 right now. When they are all used the vents in the OR (about 60+) will be going to the ICU. You can’t have electives without available vents in the OR. And they don’t want to tie up vents for electives when they may be needed for a covid patient.

Not everyone is having the issues with vents but electives are still being postponed.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Not everyone is having the issues with vents but electives are still being postponed.

I agree. My hospital is losing money. Forcing us to use PTO. Laying off nurses. Sending nurses home due to low census. Our urgent cares are slow. Our ambulatory offices are down 50% in patient volume. We’ve been like this since mid March.

we don’t have a vent issue ourselves. We have plenty available. with the stop of all electives it’s going to get bad for those waiting. They’ll just get worse and it’s a whole other set of issues. There needs to be a balance here.

 

[Colleen27]

I am concerned... you'd have to be stupid not to be, IMO, or at the very least in some serious denial. But I also realize it has to happen.

Our state unemployment system is set to run out of money in July. State revenue projections haven't been discussed publicly, but they're going to be devastating - sales, gas and income tax revenues are all way, way down because of this. And states can't run deficits, so if this doesn't turn around fairly quickly we're going to be talking in a few months about slashing funding for schools, police, roads and other essentials, as well as to parts of the safety net that are a shared state/federal responsibility like SNAP and medicaid. Our states simply cannot continue on a lockdown path much longer, especially with Washington sending signals that state bankruptcies (which would put state parks and other public lands on the auction block) are preferable to additional federal support during this time.

 

[wenrob]

I want to see the actual numbers of people in Georgia that will go to Salons (hair & nail).
Who would risk themselves for that?
Tattoos? really???
I think people are going to be more responsible.
The people that are asking to re-open for work purposes, may find that no one comes into their establishments and it was a waste of time and money to re-open.

I have to say I’d be more comfortable going into my tattoo artist’s shop than I would a doctor’s office. It’s one on one, never crowded and they each have their own space. You don’t have to share a waiting room with fifty other people most of whom are sick and the cleanliness is above and beyond. They have way more to lose if it’s not. And finally a tattoo artist is less likely to be up in your face while they’re working.

Nails? No. Sitting face to face less than a foot away your hands in theirs. Pass.

Hair dresser? Well mine always starts with a hug because she’s my sister. I’ve thought about this and 80% of the time she’d be behind me but washing hair she’s right in my face. Plus the place is always packed with no circulation and bless her but she doesn’t tell you she’s had some kind of crud until you’re in her chair. So, no.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I am saying I find it strange how hospitals rely so much on the sick to function. Here you never hear of that. Til this Covid-19 outbreak I never knew that. Here in Canada a lot of people go to the ER for unnecessary things.

I think you may be conflating what people are saying; maybe that's the confusion.

Hospitals aren't relying on the 'sick' in the way you think; they are relying on medical procedures in general to be done of which there are so many under that umbrella. If you don't have any medical procedures and you have little to no COVID-19 patients you don't need the staff and if you don't need the staff you'll be letting them go, if you don't have any medical procedures to do you don't have the money coming in though there's a difference in how each hospital may be set up in terms of funding (private, public, non-profit, combo, etc). Of course seeing patients who are actually sick with things like colds, sinus infections, even still flu right now, among many other things is also part of their budgeting but people also use Urgent Care or normal doctor visits they don't all run to the ER with that.

Electives are a broad range of procedures. For instance my mom had both her knees completely replaced last year, one in June the other in September. That is an elective surgery that her hospital she went to have it done is not doing at the moment. Prior to her surgery she was walking on bone on bone with no cartilage left. Was she sick? No. In pain? Yes. Prior to being considered eligible for surgery she had to do months of physical therapy (to help strengthen the muscles) and steroid shots in the knee (for pain management).

Dentists also fall under this category, eye care professional offices fall under this category. Elective, routine visits, etc have been largely stopped; emergent care is still allowed. These businesses do suffer financially when no one is coming in but it's not because they are caring for the sick.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Heck my hospital isn’t even doing elective radiology procedures. No mammograms, no routine follow up MRI’s, etc. unless they’re emergent.

 

[luvsJack]

I have to say I’d be more comfortable going into my tattoo artist’s shop than I would a doctor’s office. It’s one on one, never crowded and they each have their own space. You don’t have to share a waiting room with fifty other people most of whom are sick and the cleanliness is above and beyond. They have way more to lose if it’s not. And finally a tattoo artist is less likely to be up in your face while they’re working.

Nails? No. Sitting face to face less than a foot away your hands in theirs. Pass.

Hair dresser? Well mine always starts with a hug because she’s my sister. I’ve thought about this and 80% of the time she’d be behind me but washing hair she’s right in my face. Plus the place is always packed with no circulation and bless her but she doesn’t tell you she’s had some kind of crud until you’re in her chair. So, no.

Do your nail shops not already wear gloves and masks? They all do here.

Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t go either right now.

 

[Farro]

The reason I find it sad is you never hear of things like that in Canada where I live. In fact here they are happy people aren't filling up the ER for things like stubbed toes like what usually happens.

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. What I am getting at is before this all started back in Feb and before the lockdowns would doing what Sweden did work in the U.S.?

CMS has shifted from just "treating the sick" to a more preventive model. Be seen in the clinic regularly for well visits, screening tests, etc. to cut down on hospital admissions.
All that has stopped now. All elective surgeries (which can prevent patient from becoming more "sick") have stopped.
Many hospitals just don't have that many Covid patients, aren't seeing regular clinic visits, can't do elective surgeries and are losing money.
I don't understand what's not to understand. Hospitals don't rely on "sick" people at all, in fact mostly they rely on the not so "sick".

Our system is beginning discussions to advertise it's "safe" to come in for some visits. They are worried people with cardiac issues, gallbladder issues, etc. aren't coming in for fear of
Covid.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

It's not just the elective procedures being skipped. People are not going to their doctors or the hospital with emergencies right now. They are so afraid that they are dying at home from things that could be remediated with medical care.

 

[godisney14]

I think you may be conflating what people are saying; maybe that's the confusion.

Hospitals aren't relying on the 'sick' in the way you think; they are relying on medical procedures in general to be done of which there are so many under that umbrella. If you don't have any medical procedures and you have little to no COVID-19 patients you don't need the staff and if you don't need the staff you'll be letting them go, if you don't have any medical procedures to do you don't have the money coming in though there's a difference in how each hospital may be set up in terms of funding (private, public, non-profit, combo, etc). Of course seeing patients who are actually sick with things like colds, sinus infections, even still flu right now, among many other things is also part of their budgeting but people also use Urgent Care or normal doctor visits they don't all run to the ER with that.

Electives are a broad range of procedures. For instance my mom had both her knees completely replaced last year, one in June the other in September. That is an elective surgery that her hospital she went to have it done is not doing at the moment. Prior to her surgery she was walking on bone on bone with no cartilage left. Was she sick? No. In pain? Yes. Prior to being considered eligible for surgery she had to do months of physical therapy (to help strengthen the muscles) and steroid shots in the knee (for pain management).

Dentists also fall under this category, eye care professional offices fall under this category. Elective, routine visits, etc have been largely stopped; emergent care is still allowed. These businesses do suffer financially when no one is coming in but it's not because they are caring for the sick.

Completely agree with everything you said.

Just want to point out that not nearly enough people in the US do this:
“but people also use Urgent Care or normal doctor visits they don't all run to the ER with that.”

The vast majority still go to the ED instead of UC, and that’s unfortunate because they don’t realize how expensive it is to talk to someone in the ED.

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

Yes! I know some states are worst for things like that. I know some states as long as you are there for morning roll call they don't care if you leave after..its nuts.

It won't be easy to have a balance between it all so its not overly abused.

I think we need to get out of the mindset that too many people will overly abuse it...especially for school. I work in a high needs system where parents do not believe they have the authority to stick up for themselves or their children. I had one woman who was hiding in the work place bathroom to talk (whisper really) with me about her very sick kid. The child ended up in my office an extra two hours waiting for her dad who worked and lived further away because the mother could not leave work.

 

[jlwhitney]

I am concerned... you'd have to be stupid not to be, IMO, or at the very least in some serious denial. But I also realize it has to happen.

Our state unemployment system is set to run out of money in July. State revenue projections haven't been discussed publicly, but they're going to be devastating - sales, gas and income tax revenues are all way, way down because of this. And states can't run deficits, so if this doesn't turn around fairly quickly we're going to be talking in a few months about slashing funding for schools, police, roads and other essentials, as well as to parts of the safety net that are a shared state/federal responsibility like SNAP and medicaid. Our states simply cannot continue on a lockdown path much longer, especially with Washington sending signals that state bankruptcies (which would put state parks and other public lands on the auction block) are preferable to additional federal support during this time.

I think its denial for most, they just don't want to admit how serious of an issue is of what is becoming to our economy....or they are afraid it makes people think they don't value human life. Gotta find a balance in the middle.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Completely agree with everything you said.

Just want to point out that not nearly enough people in the US do this:
“but people also use Urgent Care or normal doctor visits they don't all run to the ERwith that.”

The vast majority still go to the ED instead of UC, and that’s unfortunate because they don’t realize how expensive it is to talk to someone in the ED.

Yeah one of my sister-in-law's did that for a while; drove us nuts when we'd hear about it. Me on the other hand I've been to the ER twice in my life as a patient: When I was 4yrs old with a broken elbow and wrist and 10 years ago with food poisoning (that I had to wait til a fever was high enough which was after 36+ hours dealing with the symptoms).

I have however been to the Urgent Care a few times with sinus infections as an adult and I know a few times when I was a kid (usually because I was ill after normal business hours were done at my primary doctor). They are more expensive than my primary doctor would be but there weren't really appointments available those times there. But Urgent Care was less than what an ER would cost (and was a lot quicker to get into really and more facilities to choose from in terms of locations).

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I think its denial for most, they just don't want to admit how serious of an issue is of what is becoming to our economy....or they are afraid it makes people think they don't value human life. Gotta find a balance in the middle.

I agree - many have chosen sides when we really have two devastating tragedies playing out at the same time.

 

[wenrob]

Do your nail shops not already wear gloves and masks? They all do here.

Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t go either right now.

I’ve never really been to ones that are all nails but the independent ones that rent space in the same places that my sister does, no, I’ve never seen that.

 

[choirfarm]

We got a county update on this from our regional medical company last night. The high points:

* Rural NJ counties reached their peak on 4/9 and cases have been steadily declining since.
* Deaths are still flat, but they trail infections by about 2-3 weeks so we should see them begin to decline
* Many people have been postponing normal medical care and as a result, pronouncements of death for patients being transported to the hospital for non-Covid reasons are double what they were.

I added the last point for a reason - in the NY Metro area, reported deaths have doubled the normal rate for non-COVID causes simply because people are afraid to seek medical help right now. That is a tragedy. Hopefully the rest of the country can learn from this.

If you think that you need medical attention - get it!

Yeah, except I know people that were getting treatments and caught Covid, one of which died. It should be better now. I am considering scheduling my mammogram. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Yeah, except I know people that were getting treatments and caught Covid, one of which died. It should be better now. I am considering scheduling my mammogram. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Agreed, but I am talking about people who are ignoring things like strokes and heart attacks (their symptoms) and dying at home.

 

[Colleen27]

I live in GA and I don't even know what to say. How can all the business that are set to open on Friday involve touching people. I mean massage parlors, salons (hair and nail) and tattoo parlors? On a good day people are concerned with cleanliness and hygiene at some of these places.

I agree that we need to start opening up some different spots, but these do not seem logical to me. I could much better understand non-essential stores (like clothing stores or some of the other bigger stores) than what has been recommended. For example, the LOFT at the outdoor mall a few miles away could open and social distance with little problem, in my opinion. Even if they suspended using the fitting rooms for now.

I think there are two big differences.

First, the LOFT has people touching *everything*, and most of their inventory doesn't lend itself to sanitizing so there's really nothing that can be done about it. So even limiting the number of people in the store at any one time doesn't eliminate the store as a potential source of spread.

Second, if the fitting rooms are closed there's nothing opening the LOFT adds to their business model that can't be accomplished online. For businesses like hair salons and tattoo parlors, there's no online business providing even a reduced revenue stream during the closure.

nope! Isolate, until the guidelines are met. None of the states planning to open meet those criteria. Their curves are not bending down. And they need be be showing this downward bend for 14 days. Also, none of those states have a testing plan and the needed resources to execute it in place yet.

Their Governors are just way premature.

I'm not sure setting the standard at the state level is going to prove to be the best approach. In my state, something like 85% of cases are in three counties and the rest of the state is begging to be allowed at least some reopening. Particularly in the health systems - rural hospitals that aren't seeing any COVID patients are prohibited from scheduling non-essential procedures, so they've got almost no revenue at all coming in and are teetering on the brink of collapse. I'm sure there are other states that are experiencing a similar two-sided experience, with a major metro or two getting slammed while the rural outlying areas are struggling more with the lockdown than with the virus.

 

[jlwhitney]

I think we need to get out of the mindset that too many people will overly abuse it...especially for school. I work in a high needs system where parents do not believe they have the authority to stick up for themselves or their children. I had one woman who was hiding in the work place bathroom to talk (whisper really) with me about her very sick kid. The child ended up in my office an extra two hours waiting for her dad who worked and lived further away because the mother could not leave work.

The abuse is more for work based when given so many sick days a year many use them for whatever they feel like and then go to work sick, happens all the time.

School is different and depends on what is going. It is abused for sports all the time because if the kid isn't in school they can be at practice or the game, so they send them and hope for the best.

 

[Farro]

Just read Illinois, while extending stay at home order, may open state parks and start allowing some elective surgeries!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That makes me happy.