CarolynFH
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2000
I thought they had their own app where people reported their actual wait times directly to them?Touringplans bases much of their reporting on reported attraction wait times in My Disney Experience
I thought they had their own app where people reported their actual wait times directly to them?Touringplans bases much of their reporting on reported attraction wait times in My Disney Experience
Either way, their "crowd estimates" are still an interpretation of wait times, and not actual attendance. As far as WDW goes, I wouldn't be surprised that crowds may be easing as we move further away from the revenge travel surge and the 50th Anniversary winds down. I was there last week and didn't see or feel any real difference from March 2022. As for DL, I can say that actual internal attendance projections are not significantly down from last year (which could also be related to the beginning of the 100th Anniversary celebration), regardless of whatever hotel discounts may be being offered for the summer.I thought they had their own app where people reported their actual wait times directly to them?
Exactly. That thinking really doesn't square with DVC in general and adding / expanding the DVC resorts though. By it's very nature, that requires DVC members to keep returning. So if they want to reduce the # of repeat visitors in order to provide a more premium experience to the once-in-a-long-time visitors, why keep expanding DVC? I don't think Disney really knows either.So I think what you're saying here, is that even though people are sick and tired of Disney's antics and leave, there are plenty of others who continue to go no matter what, and offsets the difference so the parks stay crowded? I can buy that.
No, you're right, TP is at best an estimate of what is going on. In the absence of anything else that is concrete though, I think the TP evidence, coupled with the discounts they are offering this year (they did not offer this level of discounts last year and the resorts were jam packed) at least indicate that demand is likely slowing somewhat. It is still very crowded for sure, and demand is still high, it just doesn't appear to be quite as high.But I don’t think Touring Plans has access to real data do they? Aren’t they still pretty much a guess using wait times?
I have been here 8 times in the last year and can tell you the parks are busy. So, if attendance is down it’s not significant in any way that it shows..walking around with lots of people.
That was my point. People are visiting and spending money. Resort discounts are for getting people to choose onsite vs offsite resorts and the summer ones were always like this,,,we were summer visitors because I was a teacher and we always got these deals..and better..
Yes - they claim to supplement their model with this....but how many people do we see here on DIS talking about reporting their wait times to TouringPlans? I have doubts as to the volume of such data they get and you can tell their models are heavily dependent on the MyDisneyExperience app and some deviations they not from other "reports". Again, it's not invaluable but I don't think it should be taken as a precise science.I thought they had their own app where people reported their actual wait times directly to them?
Not selling the AP to DVC members is about the dumbest thing they could do. Discounted APs are basically the gateway drug to buying MORE points. And if you have to be a direct member to get the discounted AP, that just further drives more demand for direct purchases.I think this hits the nail on the head. Minimum direct buy-in with closing costs right now is pushing $35,000. With the current ever-inflating points charts, that maybe gets you a week in a studio. That's a lot of money for what is really an impulse buy. (People who go home and do their research usually end up buying resale or not at all). Disney got greedy and it's coming back to bite them. If they had kept the direct buyin in the still pricey, and definitely still profitable, $150 - $175ish range, with a 100 point buy-in, they wouldn't be having these problems, and they would still be quickly selling out their resorts and turning fast profits.
Oh, and not caring enough about DVC members to even let them buy an annual pass isn't helping.
they gave up parking fees.^ THIS
We were just in San Diego touring the Midway (HIGHLY recommend BTW) and watched as the Wonder set sail. DW would LOVE to go on another cruise, but as we watched it sail away, she also said she has no desire to go to WDW anymore. That sucks to put it bluntly, but I see her viewpoint. When we bought DVC (just before restrictions) we were going at least once a year and could have gone more. We felt like we were being treated better for staying on property and were happy to buy in to DVC. Pun intended, that ship has sailed. On-property perks are all but gone, DME is gone, park ticket prices have gone through the roof and there are no special deals. Oh, then there's G+ and ILL - those extra costs really felt like a slap-in-the-face.
It's easy to blame Chapek and he IS to blame, but this is Iger's problem now, and he's been in charge long enough for the lack of changes back to the way it was, and even the recent decisions (like ILL for both 7DMT and TRON) to say, well, those are his. It's not enough for him to admit Disney is fleecing the very people who are holding up the pedestal on which they stand - there needs to be action, IMMEDIATE action.
We'll probably hang onto our contract long enough for the points to re-load and hopefully the price to rebound, but in all honesty, we are probably in camp @Wakey and we are out too.
there's also a lot of first timers always showing up -- and they have no idea what things used to be like -- so they do not have a baseline to compare it to.So I think what you're saying here, is that even though people are sick and tired of Disney's antics and leave, there are plenty of others who continue to go no matter what, and offsets the difference so the parks stay crowded? I can buy that.
Been listening to Chad Pennycuff much? I don't disagree. But I'm not sure many DVC owners want APs. I certainly don't, living so far away. I'm willing to bet AP holding DVC members are a small percentage,...well, obviously more so now since they stopped selling them. But I agree. Having APs would prompt DVC members to go more, pushing them to want more points. I get it.Not selling the AP to DVC members is about the dumbest thing they could do. Discounted APs are basically the gateway drug to buying MORE points. And if you have to be a direct member to get the discounted AP, that just further drives more demand for direct purchases.
This is what happens when each corporate entity is only looking at their silo and there isn't someone taking a more holistic approach to the whole thing.
I still think parks were busier in January 2020. That was my last trip pre-covid -- and all of the lines were long everywhere. Even the FP line for Nemo was backed up and out of the queue.But I don’t think Touring Plans has access to real data do they? Aren’t they still pretty much a guess using wait times?
I have been here 8 times in the last year and can tell you the parks are busy. So, if attendance is down it’s not significant in any way that it shows..walking around with lots of people.
That was my point. People are visiting and spending money. Resort discounts are for getting people to choose onsite vs offsite resorts and the summer ones were always like this,,,we were summer visitors because I was a teacher and we always got these deals..and better..
It is high. But the number of families out there with that kind of money, is also high.there's also a lot of first timers always showing up -- and they have no idea what things used to be like -- so they do not have a baseline to compare it to.
But at some point -- and quite frankly I'm shocked it hasn't happened yet -- disney is going to price out even the first timers.
If a family of 4 wants to spend a week in a regular hotel room at a monorail resort, they're looking at close to $7000 in lodging -- $2800 in tickets -- $700 in genie+/ILL, and then food, souvenirs, memory maker, and other stuff.
That's over $11,000.
Throw in airfare and you're over $12,000.
That's a jaw dropping number.
Could it be international tourists still haven't fully returned yet?I still think parks were busier in January 2020. That was my last trip pre-covid -- and all of the lines were long everywhere. Even the FP line for Nemo was backed up and out of the queue.
I can only speak for myself personally -- but the allure of that $550 gold AP pass back in 2016 is what convinced me to add-on.Been listening to Chad Pennycuff much? I don't disagree. But I'm not sure many DVC owners want APs. I certainly don't, living so far away. I'm willing to bet AP holding DVC members are a small percentage,...well, obviously more so now since they stopped selling them. But I agree. Having APs would prompt DVC members to go more, pushing them to want more points. I get it.
But, you see, the goal isn't to sell more points. It's to sell full price park tickets.Not selling the AP to DVC members is about the dumbest thing they could do. Discounted APs are basically the gateway drug to buying MORE points. And if you have to be a direct member to get the discounted AP, that just further drives more demand for direct purchases.
it's possible -- I hadn't seen nearly as many brazil tour groups -- although I did see a large one this past January. So they might be back.Could it be international tourists still haven't fully returned yet?
true -- but people with really high net worths aren't usually disneyphiles.It is high. But the number of families out there with that kind of money, is also high.
short term maximization of an extra $50 per day per guest vs $30,000 in hand.But, you see, the goal isn't to sell more points. It's to sell full price park tickets.
What time frame in January? The beginning, the end?it's possible -- I hadn't seen nearly as many brazil tour groups -- although I did see a large one this past January. So they might be back.
End of January -- usually the last week...although this year I crossed over Jan/Feb.What time frame in January? The beginning, the end?
Living in So Cal, we own enough points for two 5-night stays in any 2BR in WDW, plus a shorter trip to Aulani every year. With a total of 10 nights in WDW, we only do maybe 6 or 7 theme park days every year. Our +/- number for AP's is probably around $900, so it's not a huge deal for us either way (I've found I park hop less and less as well, so I'll add a hopper option only on days we think we'll actually use it).. Bringing back a $900 AP wouldn't make me run out and buy another 200 points, that's for sure. We're not anti-AP by any stretch, if fact we all have Dream Keys at DLR, but only needing theme park access for 6 or so days a year doesn't make a lack of AP's a do or die issue for us.Been listening to Chad Pennycuff much? I don't disagree. But I'm not sure many DVC owners want APs. I certainly don't, living so far away. I'm willing to bet AP holding DVC members are a small percentage,...well, obviously more so now since they stopped selling them. But I agree. Having APs would prompt DVC members to go more, pushing them to want more points. I get it.