Would you bring your laptop across the border?

FigmentSpark · Jan 19, 2018

I've always brought my laptop over the border, as I use it to fine tune my touring plans, as well as to keep in contact with family. However, I heard the U.S border agents are searching electronics a lot more than they ever have before, even copying hard drives. It's not that I have anything to hide, but I do like my privacy.

Anyone have any opinions on this? Would you take your laptop across the border?

modegard · Jan 19, 2018

I always bring my laptop. Crossed over in November and had to power up everything and take all devices out of their cases (even my kindle!), but they did not spend a lot of time looking. Just made sure it was a working device.

SaraMc · Jan 19, 2018

I bring mine. I often have to log into work while on vacay. It’s easier than trying to log in on my phone.

starvenger · Jan 19, 2018

We always bring a laptop (mine or my wife's) with us. Not a big deal, with the caveat that I would likely refuse any attempt to copy my hard drives, as I don't think they are legally allowed to do that.

isabellea · Jan 19, 2018

http://www.cbc.ca/1.4494371

FigmentSpark · Jan 19, 2018

starvenger said:
We always bring a laptop (mine or my wife's) with us. Not a big deal, with the caveat that I would likely refuse any attempt to copy my hard drives, as I don't think they are legally allowed to do that.

Here's the item I read that got me thinking.

starvenger · Jan 19, 2018

Ok so that article puts most of it into perspective. Looking at my phone? No big deal imo.

Want to download my hard drives? That requires probable cause and going up the chain of command to get permission. My concern was they’d just decide to do it right away without any justification.

FigmentSpark · Jan 19, 2018

I agree. And how would they go through all the stuff anyway, unless they already suspected you of something.

But I've also heard they are looking for evidence of wanting to work in the U.S. illegally, like emails offering jobs or presentation slides that are really working. It seems like a slow process.

momof2gr8kids · Jan 20, 2018

Dh and I were just talking about this last night and having a laugh and I'd say sure search all my dis boards stuff. Then they'd see that dh was reading about the underground tunnel system at Magic Kingdom. Then they'd be concerned we had an unhealthy obsession with Disney and think we're terrorists.

But this has me thinking twice about bringing my work phone and laptop across the border which has confidential government documents in them. Perfect. No one can get a hold of me! lol

ottawamom · Jan 20, 2018

I have an older small laptop that I bring with me when we travel. I just load files I need from my main laptop onto a stick and use that to access the files while I am away. If anyone needed to go through the travel laptop they wouldn't find much but weather/travel searches and news sites.

I am up against a bit of a wall trying to convince my DS's to clean up their phone searches before we cross the border.

cdnSpinalTap · Jan 20, 2018

According to the CBC article quoted earlier, the border agents are only allowed to look at the information that is on your device and they are not allowed to download anything from the cloud without probable cause.

Aside from the customs issue, all of my files are in cloud accounts (I use OneDrive and iCloud, all encrypted). This allows me to access the files from anywhere and any device, keeping them up to date across all devices. Also, if a device happens to crash (or get confiscated for a long period of time), I can still access the files.

With that in mind, here is what I plan to do on my laptop, phone and iPad:

Delete all email accounts, which removes all local emails. These are all easily added back after and the files will be downloaded from the server at that time.
Log out of all cloud accounts and delete local files. Again, these are easily added back afterward and the files will be downloaded from the cloud.
Clear all browsing history, and delete all cookies in any browsers on all devices.
Logout of all social media accounts.
Enable travel mode in 1Password.

I think the article said it best - you have to choose your battles. While I really have nothing to hide, the principle of an unwarranted search of my private information does not seem right to me. However, if the border agent asks for my passwords to any of my devices, cloud accounts, etc. I will probably comply. I will be crossing with my family of 5 and it will be easier to comply than risk a 2 week trip and the associated dollars spent on that trip. Although they are not "allowed" to do certain things, we all know that they can pretty much delay you for any reason.

I did contemplate backing up all of my devices, resetting them to factory before crossing and then restoring across the border. While entirely possible, this seemed like a bit of overkill. I also thought this could raise its own flags while crossing - again, choosing my battles.

That's my 2 cents. This works for me because I use the cloud, but it may not work for someone who stores all of their files locally on their devices.

FigmentSpark · Jan 20, 2018

Yeah, I store all my stuff on my hard drive and various backups. I don't know if I could delete all the things you said without causing my issues, as I've never used the cloud. I agree that having a factory reset laptop might raise red flags. Also, upon re-entering Canada, it might be suspicious and you might have to prove you bought it in Canada.

I'm like you, I'd comply with any searches, but I'm loathe to have to do it, as there are personal things on my PC. No one wants to overhear (or imagine) the border agents laughing about files or photos on their private devices.

cdnSpinalTap · Jan 20, 2018

Interesting, I just got this from WestJet for our upcoming Tuesday flight....

“Allow extra time when flying to the U.S.
Due to security measures implemented by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS), WestJet strongly encourages you to arrive at the airport a minimum of two hours before your scheduled departure to allow for additional screening time and ensuring you don't miss your flight. Heightened security measures have been introduced by DHS that require enhanced screening of personal electronic devices such as tablets and laptops. Please be advised, all personal electronic devices larger than a smartphone will need to be easily accessible and have all cases, cover and/or packaging removed. To learn more about the enhanced security measures, please visit the Department of Homeland Security website.”

Starwind · Jan 20, 2018

I only bring my laptop if I will NEED to use it, but that has been my practice for years for security reasons. So, when I was still working on my dissertation, the thing came with me [and yes, I sat at our cabana on Castaway Cay working on my dissertation... I even have photos as proof !). Now that I am dissertation-free, I am happy to travel without the weight and hassle !!

Smartphone and tablet are sufficient for our needs. We load our Disney trip planning files onto the tablet so if we want some adjusting and such or reference we can do it. I find the Evernote app is also an excellent aid to planning and a lot of our plannign info goes in it and it easily accessible on all our devices. Onenote would be similar for those wishing to remain within the Microsoft ecosystem.

MY workplace prohibits their devices leaving the country without special permission, and my manager wont let us take our work devices on vacation with us no matter whether we are vacationing at home or outside the country - when we are on vacation we are on vacation - so that is not an issue for me, thankfully

SW

Starwind · Jan 20, 2018

cdnSpinalTap said:
Interesting, I just got this from WestJet for our upcoming Tuesday flight....

“Allow extra time when flying to the U.S.
Due to security measures implemented by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS), WestJet strongly encourages you to arrive at the airport a minimum of two hours before your scheduled departure to allow for additional screening time and ensuring you don't miss your flight. Heightened security measures have been introduced by DHS that require enhanced screening of personal electronic devices such as tablets and laptops. Please be advised, all personal electronic devices larger than a smartphone will need to be easily accessible and have all cases, cover and/or packaging removed. To learn more about the enhanced security measures, please visit the Department of Homeland Security website.”

The good news is, they have been sending this message for some months, so it isn't new...

I've traveled twice to the states recently by air. Once in December (WDW/DCL trip), and once two weeks ago. Different Canadian airports for the US screening. Both wanted smartphones, tablets, laptops and similar out of your bag and in the trays. Mine stayed in their cases [Otterboxes, but are easy to remove if you know how and have practiced].

The gentleman in front of me also had his in his cases and he put them in the tray. His bag that they had been in was selected for further inspection [he explained to me as we were waiting to get through that his bags are always selected so he was expecting it that time... and they were]. He was asked to take his smartphone and tablet out of their case at the furter inspection area and they swabbed them and he had to turn them on and prove they and his laptop worked. Note this is all still within the CATSA screening area, haven't gotten to US Customs yet.

One of my bags was also selected for additional screening (medical items; it always is and I build an extra half hour into my "clear security" plan to allow for it). THey ignored my electronic devices though, those I could just put right back into my other bag and did not have to take them out of their cases.

SW

Donald - my hero · Jan 20, 2018

Hubby and i spent a fair bit of time chatting about this over coffee (for him, laundry for me!) because it is a huge concern for him - has his own business and several of his clients would be dead in the water if their production systems crashed so the work laptop goes everywhere with us. One of his clients requires him to deal with their SINs so they are on his hard drive (heavily encrypted of course) and they do NOT want that stored on anything other than a physical device. If he stores anything on the cloud he insists it is on a Canadian based system due to the difference in privacy laws and that's more $$. We're not sure what he'll do the next time we cross the border -- he did suggest popping the SIM card out and putting a clean one in -- if asked why the phone is clean he'll just say it's the one he uses with his roaming plan.

He mentioned that he tells all of his clients to remember to keep their subscriptions up to date if they use the cloud because you don't want to lose access to that data once you no longer "own" it.

cdnSpinalTap · Jan 20, 2018

Donald - my hero said:
Hubby and i spent a fair bit of time chatting about this over coffee (for him, laundry for me!) because it is a huge concern for him - has his own business and several of his clients would be dead in the water if their production systems crashed so the work laptop goes everywhere with us. One of his clients requires him to deal with their SINs so they are on his hard drive (heavily encrypted of course) and they do NOT want that stored on anything other than a physical device. If he stores anything on the cloud he insists it is on a Canadian based system due to the difference in privacy laws and that's more $$. We're not sure what he'll do the next time we cross the border -- he did suggest popping the SIM card out and putting a clean one in -- if asked why the phone is clean he'll just say it's the one he uses with his roaming plan.

He mentioned that he tells all of his clients to remember to keep their subscriptions up to date if they use the cloud because you don't want to lose access to that data once you no longer "own" it.

Just an FYI, OneDrive For Business is encrypted and you can have the data reside in Canada (or at least it worked that way for me as I chose Canada for my SharePoint installation, which OneDrive is a part of). By the way, if he is taking the data across the border on his laptop, the data is also technically residing in another country - so he may want to check with his client. Just to be clear, I am not trying to be nitpicky with you, but I am in the exact same situation as your husband (own a business, have access to customer data), so I often have many discussions around this stuff too

Just another little tidbit - I was an avid user of EverNote. I did everything in there - notes, scanned documents, etc...until I found out that EvernNote does not encrypt your data AND they have a very close relationship with Google. I have since moved everything over to OneDrive, except for daily notes.

pangaeanshift · Jan 20, 2018

I've traveled extensively with a laptop, both to the US and abroad. It has only been recently, with these new rules, that it's become a bit more time consuming. I wouldn't even call it a hassle as it really only adds a minute or two to the screening. Leaving Saskatoon to Florida, I only had to turn on my laptop at the Saskatoon airport, going through security there. There's no US Pre-screening in Saskatoon, so this is even for domestic flights. Once the login screen booted up on my laptop the guard was satisfied.

Coming from Orlando, I didn't even get that. Laptop had to be out of course, but not once was I asked to turn it on, let alone unlock it. Not to say it won't happen next time. I'm sure it will at some point. I plan ahead.

Though the idea of "copying a hard drive" doesn't fully ring true to me. That screams "collecting evidence" to me which I feel means they need probable cause and a warrant. Looking, sure, whatever. But taking a copy? I don't think so. Plus the time it would take to do that would pretty much guarantee the person in question would miss their flight, even if they were two hours early for their flight.

But TSA has surprised me before with the measures they're willing to enact.

marcyleecorgan · Jan 20, 2018

cdnSpinalTap said:
According to the CBC article quoted earlier, the border agents are only allowed to look at the information that is on your device and they are not allowed to download anything from the cloud without probable cause.

Aside from the customs issue, all of my files are in cloud accounts (I use OneDrive and iCloud, all encrypted). This allows me to access the files from anywhere and any device, keeping them up to date across all devices. Also, if a device happens to crash (or get confiscated for a long period of time), I can still access the files.

With that in mind, here is what I plan to do on my laptop, phone and iPad:

Delete all email accounts, which removes all local emails. These are all easily added back after and the files will be downloaded from the server at that time.

Log out of all cloud accounts and delete local files. Again, these are easily added back afterward and the files will be downloaded from the cloud.

Clear all browsing history, and delete all cookies in any browsers on all devices.

Logout of all social media accounts.

Enable travel mode in 1Password.

I think the article said it best - you have to choose your battles. While I really have nothing to hide, the principle of an unwarranted search of my private information does not seem right to me. However, if the border agent asks for my passwords to any of my devices, cloud accounts, etc. I will probably comply. I will be crossing with my family of 5 and it will be easier to comply than risk a 2 week trip and the associated dollars spent on that trip. Although they are not "allowed" to do certain things, we all know that they can pretty much delay you for any reason.

I did contemplate backing up all of my devices, resetting them to factory before crossing and then restoring across the border. While entirely possible, this seemed like a bit of overkill. I also thought this could raise its own flags while crossing - again, choosing my battles.

That's my 2 cents. This works for me because I use the cloud, but it may not work for someone who stores all of their files locally on their devices.

Agreed - we travel with minimal "connections" to our data while travelling. Anything truly meaningful that we NEED, we can VPN into the household server for, once we have access to a secured and encrypted connection. It's not a factory reset, but it's definitely a very cleaned-up version of the device while we are in the "limbo zone" while travelling.

as far as making a copy of the hard drive? That's just taking an image, which takes about 20 minutes, maybe faster. But to actually decompress that data and turn it into files that can be opened... that can take days. it really depends on the level of suspicion and scrutiny they are maintaining on that shift!

Rita007 · Jan 20, 2018

I have an inexpensive Chromebook that I travel with. Everything is in the cloud.

Would you bring your laptop across the border?

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