2020 DVC Annual Dues

[SL6827]

Disney (or any company) never pays for wages, taxes, or any other expense. Every business just passes those costs to the customer, whether in the form of dues or rack rates.

Of course, but aren't the DVC properties much more profitable than the regular resorts because of owners footing most of the bill? Or not?

 

[SL6827]

They always punish those that are people are picking up at a discount on resale.

I really thought about this. Makes me wonder.

 

[cvjw]

Everyone will. It is a three-year cycle with the new collective bargaining agreement.

This is a valid cost factor. Having CMs being paid a living wage is a good thing.

Yes, having CMs make a living wage is great. But, at some point, DVC owners won’t be able to afford the ever increasing maintenance dues on our points to pay for the living wage. There has to be a happy medium

We are at that point of questioning if DVC is actually a benefit for us. When you add in the maintenance fees and prorated cost of the points, we can just about book directly thru Disney with a promotion and save money.

We sold half our points last year. We sold 200 OKW and 170 BRV. The maintenance fees on those points for 2020 would have been almost $3000. Add in the actual cost of the points, and that is a lot of money for a little over a week in a 2 bedroom.

We can take a really nice Disney cruise for those same dollars and not have to worry about paying for tickets, food or entertainment.

 

[DebbieB]

Have not looked at OKW, but it appears likely the annual wage increase due to the current labor contract is the principal cause of the increases at BWV. Budgeted dues went up about $.19 per point, from about $7.17 to $7.36*, an increase of about 2.6%, and $.17 of that $.19 increase, or close to 90% of the increase, is for labor intensive dues items in the budget, such as administration and front desk, transportation, security, and housekeeping.

*That is a difference is in budgeted dues. The actual per point dues paid per member in 2019 was about $7.06 per point, the lower than budgeted number resulting from a set-off for an overpayment of property taxes in 2018.

Last year a big part of the BWV increase was housekeeping, assuming the wage increases, $1.0977 to $1.3176. I was surprised it was pretty much flat this year, $1.3176 to $1.3205.

 

[SL6827]

Yes, having CMs make a living wage is great. But, at some point, DVC owners won’t be able to afford the ever increasing maintenance dues on our points to pay for the living wage. There has to be a happy medium

We are at that point of questioning if DVC is actually a benefit for us. When you add in the maintenance fees and prorated cost of the points, we can just about book directly thru Disney with a promotion and save money.

We sold half our points last year. We sold 200 OKW and 170 BRV. The maintenance fees on those points for 2020 would have been almost $3000. Add in the actual cost of the points, and that is a lot of money for a little over a week in a 2 bedroom.

Right. Totally see your point. I did know going into DVC that what I would pay in dues would be far more than what I paid for the tiny contract, in the long run. But this is really opening my eyes to it more. I wonder if the resale value of OKW will take a hit with this increase in dues?

 

[SL6827]

I have heard, read what ever that there are some timeshares that people own that they could not give away if they tried. Could it be because the dues are so high and just not worth it?

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Of course, but aren't the DVC properties much more profitable than the regular resorts because of owners footing most of the bill? Or not?

The customer ALWAYS foots the bill.
As far as which entity makes more money, I could only guess.... shorter timeframe DVC. Eventually I would assume the hotels would catch up, but there would be a lot to factor in to say for certain.
Either way the customer is paying for 100% of the maintenance.

 

[DebbieB]

I have heard, read what ever that there are some timeshares that people own that they could not give away if they tried. Could it be because the dues are so high and just not worth it?

Most don't have much resale value, people buy on impulse and then change their minds. It's starting to happen at DVC with the Riviera resale restrictions. People who are selling already are taking a huge loss without ever using the points.

 

[SL6827]

What is HH number now? Is it like $10 a point?

 

[SL6827]

Most don't have much resale value, people buy on impulse and then change their minds. It's starting to happen at DVC with the Riviera resale restrictions. People who are selling already are taking a huge loss without ever using the points.

I will admit, I didn't take a loss at all with OKW. Bought it at $97 a point and sold it for $115 a point. I never in a million years would have thought I would have come out on the good side of a timeshare, but I did. But now I am wondering if I could do that in the near future with the due increases. Probably so.

 

[DebbieB]

I will admit, I didn't take a loss at all with OKW. Bought it at $97 a point and sold it for $115 a point. I never in a million years would have thought I would have come out on the good side of a timeshare, but I did. But now I am wondering if I could do that in the near future with the due increases. Probably so.

I bought BWV in 1999 for $65, could probably sell for close to double. Even if I sold it at a loss, I got my monies worth many times over!

 

[SL6827]

I bought BWV in 1999 for $65, could probably sell for close to double. Even if I sold it at a loss, I got my monies worth many times over!

For real!!!

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Yes, having CMs make a living wage is great. But, at some point, DVC owners won’t be able to afford the ever increasing maintenance dues on our points to pay for the living wage. There has to be a happy medium

Disney either has to reduce profit, or the owner has to sell. Workers - any worker - should be paid a living wage. Your vacation is not more important than their ability to live decently, certainly, and should not be subsidized by devaluing labor.

The only happy medium is Disney reducing profit margin, should a limit be reached.

 

[Great3]

Disney either has to reduce profit, or the owner has to sell. Workers - any worker - should be paid a living wage. Your vacation is not more important than their ability to live decently, certainly, and should not be subsidized by devaluing labor.

The only happy medium is Disney reducing profit margin, should a limit be reached.

Sounds good, except you can't sell when MF dues become way too high and unreasonable. Nobody will buy, that's the definition of a worthless timeshare in terms of resale. Than, the only value left at that point is in it's use, and even than it's questionable if MF dues are high comparing to direct booking with DVC.

Disney is going to take and take, we owners will be left holding the bag. There's no happy medium for Disney or corporate profits driving stock prices.

Great3

 

[SL6827]

There's no happy medium for Disney or corporate profits driving stock prices.

I believe you are right. This could drive the dues high enough to not make owning worth it.

 

[FireflyTrance]

I am not sure what inflation is, maybe 2-3%. It seems the DVC dues have been rising faster than inflation for a while now.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Sounds good, except you can't sell when MF dues become way too high and unreasonable. Nobody will buy, that's the definition of a worthless timeshare in terms of resale. Than, the only value left at that point is in it's use, and even than it's questionable if MF dues are high comparing to direct booking with DVC.

Disney is going to take and take, we owners will be left holding the bag. There's no happy medium for Disney or corporate profits driving stock prices.

Great3

If people stop buying, and the product becomes worthless, allowing Disney to "take back" the points and figure out what to do is an option.

I think it best not to present "poverty wages!" as a solution, on either the owner or on Disney's side. People already complain about bus service; one of the reasons for bus service issues is that Disney isn't paying enough to recruit the numbers needed.

Call it an unhappy medium, if you wish. Profits can be taken morally, or not. I had an entire semester of this topic in grad school (MBA, even).

 

[SL6827]

If people stop buying, and the product becomes worthless, allowing Disney to "take back" the points and figure out what to do is an option.

I think it best not to present "poverty wages!" as a solution, on either the owner or on Disney's side. People already complain about bus service; one of the reasons for bus service issues is that Disney isn't paying enough to recruit the numbers needed.

Call it an unhappy medium, if you wish. Profits can be taken morally, or not. I had an entire semester of this topic in grad school (MBA, even).

Sounds like an interesting class. I really enjoy reading up on this topic, it just keeps my interest up.

 

[71 Truck]

Okay here we go.
My wife and I joined DVC at OKW back in January 1997. When we bought we used a home equity loan for about two years then paid it off in full. That meant no interest payments on a loan for DVC except for the first two years.
We have owned it for the past almost 21 years outright. The only thing we have had to pay for were yearly dues and any transfer charges for cruises.
In the first several years we used it for Disney Cruises back when the points were a good value. When I did the math the cost of the cruises paid for our membership and most of the yearly dues cost for those years.
My wife and I live near Disney and average six to eight one and two night reservations a year. Those reservation if we paid cash for them would far surpass our yearly dues. To us for now it is still a good value; however if dues continue to rise at some point it will no longer be a good value for us.
Our dues, if my calculations are correct will go up about $183 dollars. Is this the end of the world? No, not yet. I am not happy about an 8% to 9% increase in on year. However, today I feel we are still getting value from our membership.

 

[drusba]

I am not sure what inflation is, maybe 2-3%. It seems the DVC dues have been rising faster than inflation for a while now.

They were generally in line with inflation before 2017, e.g., the total inflation from 2010 through 2016 was about 12% and the total dues increases at BWV were about 12% during that period. Since 2016, total inflation has been about 7% but BWV dues have increased 19%. One major cause of that is the new labor contract which resulted in a significant increase in dues beginning with the 2019 budget. The other major cause of that is a 62% increase in property tax dues per point since 2016, caused by the the combination of taxing authorities raising their rates and the assessor raising assessed values -- that assessor won election in 2016 on the campaign promise that he would greatly raise the assessed values of properties associated with big companies like Disney and Universal to aid in making them pay their "fair share" of property taxes; the DVC properties are included in that group.