Anyone dealing with a curfew tonight?

rlk

Registered
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
We live in Manhattan pretty close to Gracies Mansion where our Mayor lives. We have protestors marching up here this evening and have an 8pm curfew. Cars have also been banned south of 96th Street. My superintendent is busy taping the lobby windows and doors. I hope all protest remain peaceful tonight. My nephew is a NYPD and said last night was insane.
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
It is time for the Governor’s to step up and call in the National Guard if they know their cities are going to be facing more rioting and looting. Enough is enough. Just shut it down.
Allowing this destructive and despicable behavior to continue unchecked for another night is wrong. How many more people have to die needlessly?
Already done in my area..it's not helping much IMO :(

In some ways having the highway patrol and national guard (by way of declaring a state of emergency) can both lessen and heighten the reactions.
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Bolding is mine. Isn't that the question that started this entire thing? Fix that and we might have a chance at fixing the rest.
To be fair you might be able to ease over time race relations (which is crazy IMO to even say that considering we should be much farther along than we are honestly) but people will still die needlessly. Unfortunately not much has worked over the years with the gang violence in the city with the most gun violence in my metro (which is already higher than last year). I wish it wasn't so normal to see "so and so was shot" or "so and so was murdered" or "triple homicide at so and so" on the news in my area but it's so frequent I've sadly but honestly admit I'm partially desensitized by it. The weirdest thing coronavirus did was take away that from being front page news.
 
  • JimMIA

    There's more to life than mice...
    Joined
    Feb 16, 2005
    National Guard units are very limited in the types of actions they can help with. They can be helpful in closing off infrastructure sites and putting a perimeter around an area to keep people out.

    But they're not going to be much help in clearing streets, dealing with looters or violent criminals, etc. They may have some training in those areas, but they're just not experienced in those areas and they are not mobile enough.

    Highway patrol troopers are regular police officers and are highly mobile. They also usually have pretty good training, but they often don't know the actual streets, parks, alleys, etc like local police officers will. They're usually very helpful.

    Regular military can't do do much because of constitutional prohibitions. That's something that I think every President since George Washington has either not been aware of, or forgot -- because they all want to "nationalize" the National Guard...which takes away their state law enforcement authority.

    National Guard and regular military are much more helpful in natural disasters like hurricanes than riots.
     
    Joined
    Oct 23, 2015
    National Guard units are very limited in the types of actions they can help with. They can be helpful in closing off infrastructure sites and putting a perimeter around an area to keep people out.

    But they're not going to be much help in clearing streets, dealing with looters or violent criminals, etc. They may have some training in those areas, but they're just not experienced in those areas and they are not mobile enough.

    Highway patrol troopers are regular police officers and are highly mobile. They also usually have pretty good training, but they often don't know the actual streets, parks, alleys, etc like local police officers will. They're usually very helpful.

    Regular military can't do do much because of constitutional prohibitions. That's something that I think every President since George Washington has either not been aware of, or forgot -- because they all want to "nationalize" the National Guard...which takes away their state law enforcement authority.

    National Guard and regular military are much more helpful in natural disasters like hurricanes than riots.
    My area doesn't seem to follow what you're posting so it's possible each area utilizes things differently.

    National guard (and highway patrol) were called under the "order the National Guard into active service if necessary help officials protect life and property. This includes equipment necessary to do so."

    Different states have different laws and authority regarding highway patrol so I wouldn't assume by virtue of being one you dont know local roads. I would imagine much is dependent on where the protests are occurring and the laws of the state.

    My point to the PP was the presence can both ease people and at the same time incite others so just calling them out doesn't mean tensions are resolved.
     

    JimMIA

    There's more to life than mice...
    Joined
    Feb 16, 2005
    My point to the PP was the presence can both ease people and at the same time incite others so just calling them out doesn't mean tensions are resolved.
    I've honestly never seen either group incite anyone, and I've been through several situations with both.

    I have seen them able to perform many duties well, but they are not a solution. They are an additional resource when you need additional resources, and national guard units may be much less helpful than highway patrol.

    But it depends. If you need medical resources and you call out a medical unit, they are great. If you need hurricane debris cleared and you call out an engineer company, they are amazing. If you need crowd control or facilities security and you call out a band...you may be less satisfied.
     
    Joined
    Oct 23, 2015
    I've honestly never seen either group incite anyone, and I've been through several situations with both.

    I have seen them able to perform many duties well, but they are not a solution. They are an additional resource when you need additional resources, and national guard units may be much less helpful than highway patrol.

    But it depends. If you need medical resources and you call out a medical unit, they are great. If you need hurricane debris cleared and you call out an engineer company, they are amazing. If you need crowd control or facilities security and you call out a band...you may be less satisfied.
    I must be explaining it well poorly if so that's my bad. Maybe you're not seeing the same things I am. Some people don't like the presence of police/highway patrol/national guard. It furthers their ire rather than giving them a sense of calm. There's been plenty of that going on. So again while it may ease others to see it it doesn't do the same for others.

    I don't think I've made the case that they are the solution either so we're not in disagreement there :)
     
  • JimMIA

    There's more to life than mice...
    Joined
    Feb 16, 2005
    I must be explaining it well poorly if so that's my bad. Maybe you're not seeing the same things I am. Some people don't like the presence of police/highway patrol/national guard. It furthers their ire rather than giving them a sense of calm.
    SWAT teams, Field Forces, brain-crushing sound generators, tear gas grenade launchers, and national guard units are not there to give people a sense of calm. They are there to discourage violence.

    They are not inciting anyone; they are protecting everyone -- including lawful demonstrators. If people don't like them, oh well.
     
    Joined
    Oct 23, 2015
    SWAT teams, Field Forces, brain-crushing sound generators, tear gas grenade launchers, and national guard units are not there to give people a sense of calm. They are there to discourage violence.

    They are not inciting anyone; they are protecting everyone -- including lawful demonstrators. If people don't like them, oh well.
    I'm not saying THEY are inciting people. I clearly said multiple times their presence can incite people....I'm not sure how else I can make it any clearer :)

    Regardless we don't have to go back and forth it's a side point anyways :flower3: :)
     

    JimMIA

    There's more to life than mice...
    Joined
    Feb 16, 2005
    Yeah you're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying THEY are inciting people. I clearly said multiple times their presence can incite people....I'm not sure how else I can make it any clearer :)
    Well, I spent 25 years in law enforcement and I don't think I've ever seen the mere presence of law enforcement personnel incite anyone.

    But I guess some folks have a lower "incite threshold" than others -- people do get upset by pretty minimal stuff sometimes.
     

    tex1989

    DIS Veteran
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    Mar 13, 2018
    Not sure when the funeral is but we have found out that George Floyd is going to be buried in the city where I live south of Houston. Hopefully the mood around the funeral will be somber and no protests or demonstrations follow. Everything around here is shutting down early everyday and streets are light on traffic each evening after dark. Hope it stays that way.
     
  • NYCgrrl

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 13, 2017
    Not sure when the funeral is but we have found out that George Floyd is going to be buried in the city where I live south of Houston. Hopefully the mood around the funeral will be somber and no protests or demonstrations follow. Everything around here is shutting down early everyday and streets are light on traffic each evening after dark. Hope it stays that way.
    From ABC News:

    The first memorial service will be on June 4 in Minneapolis at North Central University's Frank J. Lindquist Sanctuary, where Rev. Al Sharpton will deliver a "national eulogy" and one of the Floyd family attorneys, Ben Crump, will give a "national criminal justice address." The service will begin at 1 p.m. local time.

    Another memorial service will be held on June 6 in Raeford, North Carolina, the state where Floyd was born, at Cape Fear Conference B Headquarters. A public viewing will be held from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. local time and a memorial service will start at 3 p.m.

    The celebration of life services will head to Houston, Texas, where Floyd had previously lived, on June 8. A public visitation will occur at The Fountain of Praise on Hillcroft Avenue from noon to 6 p.m. local time.

    A private funeral service will be held at the same location on June 9 at 11 a.m. local time, which former Vice President Joe Biden is expected to attend, Crump said at a press conference on Tuesday.
     

    cabanafrau

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    May 10, 2006
    Well, I spent 25 years in law enforcement and I don't think I've ever seen the mere presence of law enforcement personnel incite anyone.

    But I guess some folks have a lower "incite threshold" than others -- people do get upset by pretty minimal stuff sometimes.
    Considering the latest tragedy in the all too long line of tragedies that flow from LE improperly exercising their authority that has touched off this latest conflagration, I'd beg to differ in a big way that there's a low "incite threshold" at issue here.

    It's beyond mindboggling to suggest that this is in any way "pretty minimal stuff". Are you kidding?

    It's a big deal in my world where civil servants act as judge, jury and executioner as if that's what they have been authorized to do!
     

    JimMIA

    There's more to life than mice...
    Joined
    Feb 16, 2005
    Considering the latest tragedy in the all too long line of tragedies that flow from LE improperly exercising their authority that has touched off this latest conflagration, I'd beg to differ in a big way that there's a low "incite threshold" at issue here.

    It's beyond mindboggling to suggest that this is in any way "pretty minimal stuff". Are you kidding?

    It's a big deal in my world where civil servants act as judge, jury and executioner as if that's what they have been authorized to do!
    Nobody was talking about "improperly exercising authority." Of course that will cause upset...and it should, beginning in the LE community.

    But the context the "incite" discussion was that just the mere presence of law enforcement or national guard incited some people.

    To me, if a simple sighting of law enforcement incites a person to violent thoughts, that's a really trivial provocation and the person really needs to take a long look in the mirror.

    I know there are people like that -- I actually know a few personally. But I'd be very disappointed if public officials put their tails between their legs and cowered before such people.
     

    cabanafrau

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 10, 2006
    SWAT teams, Field Forces, brain-crushing sound generators, tear gas grenade launchers, and national guard units are not there to give people a sense of calm. They are there to discourage violence.

    They are not inciting anyone; they are protecting everyone -- including lawful demonstrators. If people don't like them, oh well.
    Nobody was talking about "improperly exercising authority." Of course that will cause upset...and it should, beginning in the LE community.

    But the context the "incite" discussion was that just the mere presence of law enforcement or national guard incited some people.

    To me, if a simple sighting of law enforcement incites a person to violent thoughts, that's a really trivial provocation and the person really needs to take a long look in the mirror.

    I know there are people like that -- I actually know a few personally. But I'd be very disappointed if public officials put their tails between their legs and cowered before such people.
    You admit the above tools of response are not there to give people a sense of calm and yest you suggest people peacefully protesting about the unconscionable use of lethal force by the police are wrong to be incited by the mere sight of them in the face of their peaceful protests? People protesting police brutality should shrug their shoulders as if the police are showing up with spitballs? It's glaringly obvious why the mere sight would trigger horrendous fear and anger. Suggesting otherwise is deliberately disingenuous.
     

    HeatherC

    Alas...these people I live with ...
    Joined
    May 23, 2003
    You admit the above tools of response are not there to give people a sense of calm and yest you suggest people peacefully protesting about the unconscionable use of lethal force by the police are wrong to be incited by the mere sight of them in the face of their peaceful protests? People protesting police brutality should shrug their shoulders as if the police are showing up with spitballs? It's glaringly obvious why the mere sight would trigger horrendous fear and anger. Suggesting otherwise is deliberately disingenuous.
    And all that would hold true if we didn’t see people rioting and looting and burning things down and harming others. Sometimes, these tools are required and I, for one, hope the police use them if needed to protect innocent business owners and bystanders.
     

    mi*vida*loca

    Collect memories, not things
    Joined
    Mar 29, 2008
    I’m in the NJ burbs right outside of philly. Philly has a 6 pm curfew. We don’t have one.

    National guard is deployed in center city Philly to protect the monuments and city hall (from what I’ve heard). Their perimeter is mostly in that area.
     

    bcla

    On our rugged Eastern foothills.....
    Joined
    Nov 28, 2012
    Nobody was talking about "improperly exercising authority." Of course that will cause upset...and it should, beginning in the LE community.

    But the context the "incite" discussion was that just the mere presence of law enforcement or national guard incited some people.

    To me, if a simple sighting of law enforcement incites a person to violent thoughts, that's a really trivial provocation and the person really needs to take a long look in the mirror.

    I know there are people like that -- I actually know a few personally. But I'd be very disappointed if public officials put their tails between their legs and cowered before such people.
    It depends. Isn't there a lot of discussion about the threat level? I've been following some of the response, and many LE agencies feel that they should come out first in regular uniforms, and hold back the riot gear in reserve. I've seen it myself, and often it turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy. You may not agree with it, but some LE professionals believe that deescalation can be more effecive.

    “There’s this failed mindset of ‘if we show force, immediately we will deter criminal activity or unruly activity’ and show me where that has worked,” said Scott Thomson, the former chief of police in Camden, New Jersey.​
    “That’s the primal response,” he said. “The adrenaline starts to pump, the temperature in the room is rising, and you want to go one step higher. But what we need to know as professionals is that there are times, if we go one step higher, we are forcing them to go one step higher.”​
     

    JimMIA

    There's more to life than mice...
    Joined
    Feb 16, 2005
    It depends. Isn't there a lot of discussion about the threat level? I've been following some of the response, and many LE agencies feel that they should come out first in regular uniforms, and hold back the riot gear in reserve. I've seen it myself, and often it turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy. You may not agree with it, but some LE professionals believe that deescalation can be more effecive.
    Sure. Deescalation is always the first, second, third, fourth, fifth...approach. You don't start disbursing groups until all reasonable deescalation efforts have been unsuccessful. You also do NOT disburse groups unless they are doing something unlawful.

    In my old department, they now have specially trained units called Priority Response Teams who manage demonstrations. They wear a variation of the normal uniform, but not the heavy duty protective gear SWAT teams would wear. And their focus is deescalation and minimal force where deescalation doesn't work. They're not looking to arrest anyone, but if they have to it's usually quick, smooth, and usually with no force.
     

    JimMIA

    There's more to life than mice...
    Joined
    Feb 16, 2005
    You admit the above tools of response are not there to give people a sense of calm and yest you suggest people peacefully protesting about the unconscionable use of lethal force by the police are wrong to be incited by the mere sight of them in the face of their peaceful protests? People protesting police brutality should shrug their shoulders as if the police are showing up with spitballs? It's glaringly obvious why the mere sight would trigger horrendous fear and anger. Suggesting otherwise is deliberately disingenuous.
    Totally and consistently twisting other posters comments completely out of context is deliberately lying.
     





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