Anyone Else Have a Controlling Sibling? - Resolved Post 216

[lisaviolet]

maybe she wasn't who knows but that's in the past now and it seems to me you are afraid of her - afraid that she is going to ban you from seeing her family. Maybe you should talk to her about that. That would be my suggestion instead of being afraid - address it. You are tip toeing around her - stop it. You are adults. Talk to her

Yes.

Perfectly said.

What I was trying to communicate, but you did a much better job Michelle.

 

[Skellingtonj]

Yes, so far about $48,000 for each us has been unearthed. That is worth it to me.

Ok makes sense. I was just asking. Ty

 

[disneyeveryyear]

Please be sure to check the threshold for a Small Estate Affidavit v. Probate in your state. In my state it was $100,000. Any estate worth over $100,000 had to go through probate.

 

[BLAZEY]

I would want a room of my own too if I had to share with a sister and a brother. Even if my brother was my closest friend, most hotel rooms only have 2 beds, so most likely somebody is going to be sharing a bed (likely you and sis). NOPE! I used to share a bed with my sister that kicks in her sleep. I did it as an adult six ladies at the spa resort for her hen party (bachelorette) sis and I shared a bed. Never again. OP, I would have just booked another room at the same hotel, and said what you told her about paying out of pocket. Was there any particular reason you booked at different location, rather than just another room at the same hotel? There would be no issue with transportation, but you still get your privacy.

 

[Cubbiecakes]

Maybe your sister feels that she is desperately trying to keep the family together.

You know, if you want to hold a cat in your lap, you find it, rouse it from its sleep, carry it through the house, waggle it over your barking dog, throw it on the couch, sit down, and then seize it by the neck and hold it in a vice grip in your lap, you really shouldn’t be surprised when the cat tries to get away from you. Hint: the cat is the OP.

Seems to me it wouldn’t hurt to have a heart to heart with her and see how she feels.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

From the controlling sister’s perspective, you should rephrase that as, “I should attack the sister and show her how much I hate her because I am a terrible person.” Because for controlling people, having “heart to heart” conversations is exactly that: an attack on their control. But good luck with that.

 

[nkereina]

We are only getting the OP's perspective here. I would assume the sister has a whole different point of view. Regardless, I know there are just plain nasty people in the world. She may very well be one of them and if that's the case, I would keep the sister at arm's length and deal with her in small doses.

With regard to the brother and the baby, I always tread lightly with new babies and weddings when it comes to social media. A lot of people do not want photos posted at all or want to be the first to make the post. So I don't blame her for that. I do think being upset about that for 4 years is extreme, so I would have to imagine there's more to it.

With regard to the hotel, I don't blame the OP for wanting their own room, but I think a logical solution is to book their own room in the same hotel for ease and to compromise with the sister. This doesn't sound like a vacation, but a trip to take care of familial business so compromises will likely have to be made. I would just bite the bullet so it doesn't become a trip the OP is dreading. If the sister is already as miserable as the OP says, then why rock the boat. It's only making it worse for yourself.

 

[Shanti]

Was there any particular reason you booked at different location, rather than just another room at the same hotel?

Yes, I didn't like the online reviews of the other hotel. The place I chose is nearby, though, and I am renting a car.

 

[Shanti]

With regard to the hotel, I don't blame the OP for wanting their own room, but I think a logical solution is to book their own room in the same hotel for ease and to compromise with the sister. This doesn't sound like a vacation, but a trip to take care of familial business so compromises will likely have to be made. I would just bite the bullet so it doesn't become a trip the OP is dreading. If the sister is already as miserable as the OP says, then why rock the boat. It's only making it worse for yourself.

I just want to stay where I want to stay so that I'm comfortable. They're at a cheap hotel in a not-great neighborhood. I'm going to be at a nice yet affordable B&B in a nice neighborhood. More pleasant & homey. I actually would dread the trip if I allowed it to be a situation where I'm treated like a child & have no say where I sleep, eat or spend my downtime, and have no personal space. As it is now, I feel comfortable with the trip knowing I'll have my own space and transportation.

 

[okeydokey]

You have every right to stay where you want if you are paying for it yourself. In fact your decision to stay elsewhere has made it nicer for the other two, no bed sharing and more bathroom time and space. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it, especially if this anger seems to be her pattern. I can see that you realize that it is her problem and really has nothing to do with you.

 

[nkereina]

I just want to stay where I want to stay so that I'm comfortable. They're at a cheap hotel in a not-great neighborhood. I'm going to be at a nice yet affordable B&B in a nice neighborhood. More pleasant & homey. I actually would dread the trip if I allowed it to be a situation where I'm treated like a child & have no say where I sleep, eat or spend my downtime, and have no personal space. As it is now, I feel comfortable with the trip knowing I'll have my own space and transportation.

Fair enough. You asked for thoughts, so I gave mine. No right or wrong answers.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I don't resent her at all. I haven't had any problem with her. That is why I needed to vent when she got so angry about this- I really don't get it, as it's in the context of an otherwise positive relationship. To clarify for everyone on the thread:

• I choose for my son and I to visit them every Sunday after church and we're genuinely happy to do so. I love my nieces and want to build a strong relationship with them and always be there for them. No meals are served during our visits and that's good, too. My sister says we're welcome, so I text or call each Sunday verifying a good time to stop by, we then come over & visit for 30-60 minutes, then leave. This will only end if my sister wants it to end, because I, my son, and my nieces are all happy with it. My sister & her husband have always appeared to be happy with it, too.
• I wasn't trying to respond in any nasty way about the hotel thing. She sent angry texts questioning my decision, and rather than respond to those I called her so we could talk about it, which seems more civil to me. But she was angry on the phone. I kept the call short because I'm not going to be chewed out at length simply because I want to travel as an independent adult during this trip. I'm sure she's angry about that, too, but I can't control her anger- I am genuinely not trying to provoke it. I'm not trying to control the trip. I've told her that I appreciate the work she's done to manage the details, & said I'm fine with paying a third of their accommodations/rental car, even though I've also booked my own on my own dime.
• I'm not worried about her cheating me out of my inheritance. She's insisting this trip, as well as a trip she & my brother did last summer that was also related to this, be paid for out of our inheritance. I know she has no legal right to insist on that, but the trips are not so expensive that I really mind paying a third, given that she's put a lot of effort into planning everything and unearthing my father's accounts. The money that is recovered, beyond what's being spent on these logistical trips, is being divided into thirds among us siblings. I don't think an attorney is needed. If a rip-off seemed to be looming, though, I would certainly get one.
• I'm not worried about her abusing my child. He wouldn't be around her for a moment if I had that concern. She's not an evil or sick person, just unreasonably controlling. That's a part of her personality that I don't usually have to interact with now that we're adults, but this trip has really brought it out into the open.

Thanks for the support and all of the thoughtful comments, from you and everyone else on this thread. I got attacked by her so out of the blue on this that part of me thought maybe I was in the wrong for wanting a bit of independence, but most comments have confirmed my feeling that I have the right to make my own decision on where & how I stay during the trip.

Okay.....
So, you make a big deal about texting or calling so you can 'stop by' for a matter of minutes, one day EVERY week out of your, AND your son's lives.... Seriously????
I see that as a huge problem. I see that as what I have called in the past 'paying homage' to the controlling narcissist. I do wonder what other time or activities that you spend together. I wonder if she ever makes any real initiative to see you, within the parameters of your life, home, and on your turf. I also am thinking that this seems to be your effort to not be 'shunned'.

From what you have described, this is a toxic and controlling relationship. Especially the anger and the 'shunning' part. That is not 'an otherwise positive relationship'.

Nobody is suggesting that she will actively 'abuse' your son. But, OP, make absolutely no mistake here... If she is capable of shunning and cutting your son off from his relationship with his cousins, over some so-call perceived offense, then yes, that very much would be emotionally and psychologically abusive. That is not positive. That is classic, controlling-narcissistic, passive aggressive behavior. Just classic.

If she is showing such anger, as well as everything else that we see that you have mentioned here.... That is also a very very real and potentially serious problem.

OP, there are a few of us posters here who are very closely familiar with this controlling narcissistic personality type.
And, the best advise will always, always, come from those who truly understand and who have dealt with the same situations.
Just sayin.....

 

[Wishing on a star]

And, also just wondering....
Just how does she think that she has access to this safe deposit box????
Again, is her name on this. Is she going to be able to sign for access?
How much actually has her name on it?

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I guess I don't see what is so controlling here. I think she is trying to make is easy on everyone and for the estate to pay for it so no one has to pay out of pocket. Would I do it that way? No I wouldn't be that's me. It hard to make everyone happy when your the executor. I was one and still am for my parents estate. It is the worst job when you have crappy siblings who are greedy and only care about themselves. I am not saying that is how this situation is - that was my situation.

At any rate - maybe she was mad at your brother for more than just that - maybe she wasn't who knows but that's in the past now and it seems to me you are afraid of her - afraid that she is going to ban you from seeing her family. Maybe you should talk to her about that. That would be my suggestion instead of being afraid - address it. You are tip toeing around her - stop it. You are adults. Talk to her.

This is what I’m struggling with as well. The examples given don’t scream “toxic control freak” to me.

I understand why the sister would have been upset about the birth photo. I feel like some things are just commonly accepted to be “parent privilege” and anyone with a lick of common sense wouldn’t do these things without running it by the parent first because, while it might not be a big deal for some people, to others it is. Posting pictures of children on social media is one example. Announcing a child’s birth is another. Personally, I don’t get why Santa is a big deal for some people, but I can assure you I would never in a million years take it upon myself to tell someone else’s child Santa isn’t real. That’s not my place. And if I DID intentionally ruin that for another parent, I would completely understand them being so disgusted by my actions that they want nothing further to do with me. Wanting to choose when and how to announce your child’s birth, or wanting decision-making power over their online presence while they’re still very young does not mean a parent is being overly-controlling and unreasonable.

I initially thought the weekly visits might have been an example of the OP having to carry the weight of maintaining the relationship, but after clarification it sounds like nothing more than a friendly standing invitation for the OP to drop by after church, which she herself says she’s happy to do.

As far as the hotel, I understand wanting your own space and transportation and having personal standards for such, but I can also imagine the sister feeling frustrated if she feels like she’s trying to do things as simply, inexpensively, and financially-fair as possible and now feels like the OP is complicating matters.

Having said all that, I realize people’s personalities can’t be accurately conveyed in just a few posts and the OP certainly knows her sister and her intentions better than we do. I think it’s very possible the sister is a controlling person but the OP just didn’t pick the best examples to highlight that.

 

[Toolulu22]

I am just amazed. I don't doubt this is what is happening for you, but when my DM died two years ago, we had to take copies of her will into the bank to get her funds released. This was our small local bank where we had all banked at for 30+ years, so they knew us and knew we were her DDs, but we still had to prove up our claim to her $. I swear there were copies of that will all over the place, bank, insurance companies, financial planners, etc.

I took care of both of my parents estates when they passed and it was a big process. We had to put an announcement in the Newspaper in the State my mom lived, had to settle any outstanding debt by looking through bills and making phone calls, etc. Perhaps this is what the sister is doing.

 

[Imzadi]

You need a lawyer and right now. One in the state where your father died that knows estate law. Do not try and settle that estate without one. As your father died without a will, he didn't appoint you sister to settle it.

Maybe I'm missing something here. But, as soon as the death certificate is signed, all accounts & assets of the deceased are frozen. The sister wouldn't be able to get into any accounts or even the safe deposit box, even if she is co-named on the account, unless she was listed as the Administrator of the estate. And it sounds like she petitioned to be and the brother & OP allowed it as the OP said:

My sister has been managing the process of getting these accounts together, which I really appreciate.

It also doesn't sound like the sister is trying to cheat or swindle the siblings out of money or assets or the sister, as controlling as she is, also wouldn't have said:

She asked my brother and I to travel to California with her this summer to look into the safe deposit box, and any other accounts that might exist there.

The sister would have planned a trip by herself and pocketed any assets that aren't listed. But, she purposely ASKED the siblings to go with her, so they could open and look at all the accounts TOGETHER.

She also said upfront:

She says this room & the rental car will be paid for out of our joint inheritance.

My sister is really angry about this. Pointed out that the money for their hotel will still come out of our joint inheritance.

Again, if she was planning on cheating, lying, etc. she would have hid the fact that she is planning on taking out the money from the inheritance until AFTER. As controlling as she is, she IS telling the OP what she is planning on doing.

Some of you are saying "Hire a lawyer." For what? How much is a third of the cheap hotel bill? Another $30? I'd also say, "Fine take it out of the inheritance."

To hire an estate lawyer, the retainer will be between $200 - $500. To REMOVE an already appointed Administrator will be several more hundreds of dollars as it has to go to court. THEN, who is going to be the Administrator if the sister is removed? Doesn't sound like the OP or the brother want it. To hire a Public Administrator to oversee the case, depending on the amount of assets, may cost several hundred more dollars. It doesn't sound like there is a lot of an estate if the sister is getting a cheap hotel room for the 3 of them to share. OR she would have charged a better one to the estate already.

All that for a third of a hotel bill.

The sister being petty & controlling doesn't necessarily equal lying & cheating.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Well, the OP has stated that it is not about the 1/3 of the hotel bill. She doesn't seem to have any problem with that. I think she said it was fine if the sister wanted to bill it to the estate... She is willing to still go ahead and pay for her own accommodations.

The OP has also never seemed to indicate that she thought that the sister might be lying or cheating.... If others did, given the circumstances, I think that might be a concern that would come to mind. Why should that not even be mentioned here.

Some of the rest of the above post is true.... But there are just two small but important points.
Points that the OP has not been clear on.

1. I am not seeing where the OP mentions anything legal. The sister would have to have been legally named as the person to settle the estate... Executor, or whatever. This has been mentioned by posters here since very early on, and if the sister is the sole legal administrator/executor then I am not sure why the OP would not have gone ahead and posted that. Since the OP has responded with a very deafening silence to the comments and questions about these legal factors... then I think that it is fair to post that a lawyer is probably necessary. I have said that a lawyer is needed... Never that she needed to lawyer up against her sister.

2. Even if the sister is the person who is legally responsible for the estate... If she was not named, as such, in any will, how would she have been the sole person in charge when there are two other of the deceased surviving children involved? You don't just assume that responsibility, right? She would have to have been named/appointed. Even if the sister is the sole legal executor, since when does that mean that she gets to demand that both siblings share a room with her? Also, that the OP not rent a car for your own transportation. That, very simply, IS toxic and controlling. And just one of several other things that the OP has mentioned that seem to show a very controlling and self centered personality. It really is very classic.

OP: If you have signed off on any agreement that your sister be the sole executor, then as you seem to understand, you have to accept that.
If the whole entire issue is the hotel room.... (which obviously it is not -seems to go a lot further than that) then I would go ahead with your plans, as stated.
If that is your actual question... Here is my advice.
If people who are this kind of personality type get all mortally wounded and fall on knives when their sensitivities are offended... That is on them.
People can only control you if you let them.

I will also just say that I am seeing words like enraged and anger.
Yes, I will mention that as a concern. Definitely.

 

[Nancyg56]

He took the photo off Facebook the same day she complained. I'm not saying he should have done it, but he didn't deserve to be shunned for 4 whole years, and the rest of the family put in the position of having to do separate Christmases, Thanksgiving, etc., because she wouldn't be at a holiday event where he was. This was especially hard on our mother. I believe that at some point you have to grow up and realize family members aren't perfect, but you're going to try to get along for harmony's sake. That's what I've tried to do with her, for example.
This is just one night, which is one of the reasons why I don't see why she's making a big deal- I am staying fairly close, and I've decided to rent my own car. I don't let her control me in the sense of doing something that makes me uncomfortable, which is why I won't sleep 3 to a room in a cheap hotel for even one night. I'm strong. I just don't want this to sour family relations.

I am stunned that your family allowed one person to dictate who is included for holidays by virtue of the location of the meal. I would gather at McDonald's before I let one sibling decide who comes to a family holiday. The rest of this is peanuts when compared to the shunning.

I get she was mad, fine. But who allowed her to host the holidays and exclude your brother? You are digging your heals int eh ground over a room, however you have gone 4 years this way.

 

[Shanti]

I am stunned that your family allowed one person to dictate who is included for holidays by virtue of the location of the meal. I would gather at McDonald's before I let one sibling decide who comes to a family holiday. The rest of this is peanuts when compared to the shunning.

I get she was mad, fine. But who allowed her to host the holidays and exclude your brother? You are digging your heals int eh ground over a room, however you have gone 4 years this way.

If everyone else in the family is showing up at her house for holidays, and she won't allow my brother to come, what am I supposed to do about that? If I boycotted, everyone else would still go to her house, and my son and I would have been by ourselves.

 

[Imzadi]

. I am not seeing where the OP mentions anything legal. The sister would have to have been legally named as the person to settle the estate... Executor, or whatever. This has been mentioned by posters here since very early on, and if the sister is the sole legal administrator/executor then I am not sure why the OP would not have gone ahead and posted that. Since the OP has responded with a very deafening silence to the legal factors... then I think that it is fair to post that a lawyer is probably necessary.

2. Even if the sister is the person who is legally responsible for the estate... If she was not named, as such, in any will, how would she have been the sole person in charge when there are two other of the deceased surviving children involved? You don't just assume that responsibility/right. She would have to have been named/appointed.

As I already stated: As soon as the death certificate is signed, all accounts & assets of the deceased are frozen. The sister wouldn't be able to get into any accounts or even the safe deposit box, even if she is co-named on the account, unless she was listed as the Administrator of the estate. And it sounds like she petitioned to be and the brother & OP allowed it by signing the legal form that gets mailed to them when the petitioner files in court that they want to be appointed Administrator.

Unless the sister doesn't know this, relatives can't just show up at a bank and claim to be relatives demanding that the accounts/safe deposit box be opened for them. The Administrator has to provide legal documents that they are indeed the appointed, legal Administrator. So, it's kind of obvious that the sister is the appointed Administrator.

Even if the OP is the sole legal executor, since when does that mean that she gets to demand that both siblings share a room with her?

I did not say she could. I DID say that the sister is controlling. I was only addressing the way people jumped on the sister to make her out to be a villain and suggest the OP spend several hundreds of dollars to hire a lawyer, which is such a traditional DIS over-reaction.

OP: If you have signed off on any agreement that your sister be the sole executor, then as you seem to understand, you have to accept that.
If the whole entire issue is the hotel room.... (which obviously it is not -seems to go a lot further than that) then I would go ahead with your plans, as stated.
If people who are this kind of personality type get all mortally wounded and fall on knives when their sensitivities are offended... That is on them.
People can only control you if you let them.

One mountain/molehill at a time. This relationship dynamic wasn't created in one day. There were certain aspects that met the OP's needs, or that she tolerated for the sake of their kids. And it does sound like she handling the sister's control issues in this case.

Sister tries to control with money. . . Fine, take it out of the inheritance, I'm still getting my own room. Time to pick her up is the next problem. . . Fine, I'll get my own car. Next will be: the extra 1/3 money for the car rental that the sister will now claim she owes. . . Better not cave on the extra $20 for that either.

 

[Skellingtonj]

If everyone else in the family is showing up at her house for holidays, and she won't allow my brother to come, what am I supposed to do about that? If I boycotted, everyone else would still go to her house, and my son and I would have been by ourselves.

Tell her she’s nuts. That’s what we would have done. One person cannot have so much say in how things are done. I had a huge issue with my sister. My parents told me not to speak to her because she was crazy and completely irrational. I didn’t and it blew over. After maybe a few months. 4 years is bananas. What does he say about all this??