Anyone else have keyless ignition/push button start

I think that's how our Highlander works as well. Much like a Magic Band I'm guessing.

There are a bunch of ways to do it. Having the battery powered transmitter that communicates with the car's security system is what most people are thinking of with this topic.

Not quite sure what yours is using. There have been "dumb" contactless key card systems for at least 30 years. I used those to get into the computer room at college and later at work to get in after hours. Those just contained a code that never changed. More modern stuff uses a "contactless smart card" where even something that could snoop on the transmission couldn't be used to copy it. There's an algorithm in stuff like credit cards or even smart phones, and the reader expects an exact response. For something like a credit card or a fare card, it simply needs to provide a small amount of RF energy that's converted to power the system. The more advanced ones have electronics that can provide a more or less unique response.
 
Not necessarily. See below.



The Accord and Civic are still at the top of the stolen car list, but they're older models. Switching to RF or similar technology effected all cars, not just Honda. The only difference between push button cars and traditional key cars really is just a matter of if the initial mechanism to try to start the car is done by pressing a button or inserting a physical key. Pretty much all cars have some type of coding that much match up for the car to start. How sophisticated it is can depend on the type of car. If anyone remembers, many years ago, GM had little chips on their keys. There were a limited number of chip frequencies. So in theory, if you got every chip, you could steal a car if you could defeat the ignition...which wasn't exceptionally hard. Now, it would take a pretty sophisticated thief to steal a modern car quickly...unless they have a tow truck (which is how many cars are stolen now). That will hold true if it's a car with a key or a push button. It really doesn't make much difference. But there are some very highly organized and sophisticated theft rings out there. Hence why I said if a thief wants your car, they're taking it. The modern technology does wonderful to deter the person looking for a quick joyride (I remember when I first got into the auto world, I was shown how to steal a Chrysler in less than 30 seconds...and I did it...in a test environment of course).

The "hot wiring" stuff you see in the movies is Hollywood fantasy. Even in the old days ('80s), just breaking off the lower column cover and touching wires wasn't enough...you'd still have to defeat the steering column lock, and often a shift lock.

Modern technology reduces "thefts of opportunity". The older Accords and Civics without the technology are frequently victims of that. I've seen demos of guys with nothing more than a screw driver being able to defeat the ignition, column lock and shift lock in 20 seconds. Now, on GM cars, breaking the column lock usually broke the high beam headlight switch which is why if cops see a GM car with the high beams on, and the driver doesn't dim them, they often do a traffic stop because that is enough probable cause for a stop.
No matter how sophisticated a security system you develop for a car, the dealer, and locksmiths, have a legitimate reason to have equipment to defeat those systems in case the car owners lose a key. It's when those devices get into the wrong hands, or someone builds one on their own, that even the best security system can be defeated.
 
Dh's car has that and I borrowed it a few weeks ago. When I tried to start it I got the message "key not recognized" or something like that.
I just kept trying it and it eventually worked. When I told dh he said that the battery is dying, and this will be the 2nd one he has put in it, his car is a 2015.
I tend t keep my cars for a very long time, I hope that by the time I get a new one that keyless ignition is not standard on all of them.
 
No matter how sophisticated a security system you develop for a car, the dealer, and locksmiths, have a legitimate reason to have equipment to defeat those systems in case the car owners lose a key. It's when those devices get into the wrong hands, or someone builds one on their own, that even the best security system can be defeated.

Locksmiths usually can't defeat them blind. At least for the RF transponder inside the physical key (like early 2000s Hondas), it may be possible to read the value in the key and copy it. The new ones are exceedingly tough. It's closer to breaking the . Everything is integrated into a complex electronic system, so it's not as if most cars can be hot-wired any more. At least not without breaking a ton of the functionality that most people expect in a car.

I suppose it might be possible to tow a car away, gut the electronics and install an aftermarket engine management unit. Then the radio probably won't work. The complexity of new cars is absolutely off the charts. They're about as much electronics as they are mechanical devices.
 


in the 2017 Ford Explorer with keyless, there is a small compartment in the center armrest that a battery dead remote can be place so the car will start.

off topic comment: with keyless it was a pain to be waiting in the car and have the radio tun off every 10 minutes. recently I discovered that at least with Fords, if you push the radio power button the radio will turn on and stay on.
 
Here are our thoughts:

My wife loves it. I’m mostly annoyed by it. And it comes down to this: She keeps her keys in her purse - easy as can be. But I hate keeping my keys in my pocket, so I toss them somewhere when I sit down and I often lose track of them.

So then I do the 2017 Odyssey dance:
1. Get out without the keys. See that the door won’t lock with the keys in the car.
2. Find the key. Get out and lock the door.
3. Check to see if the door is locked by pulling on the handle (like I do on the 2007 CRV), which UNLOCKS the freaking door lock.
4. Lock the door again. Accidentally touch the inside of the handle which unlocks the freaking door AGAIN.
5. Finally let my wife lock the door.

And after a weekend with the new Odyssey, I go to the old CRV and wonder why it won’t open or start with the keys in my pocket.

So, I’m only 47 years old, but I think I’m too old for push button start :)
 
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The complexity of new cars is absolutely off the charts. They're about as much electronics as they are mechanical devices.
My daughter bought a Ford Fusion Hybrid yesterday. Opening the hood is TERRIFYING. Lots of "DANGER, HIGH VOLTAGE" signs. The battery....the regular one, is in the trunk.
She bought a 100,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. I hope it will cover anything that might happen.
 


I've got a Nissan Juke with a push-start. I hate it. I can't for the life of me figure out what benefit this feature is supposed to have. :sad2: It's about 3 years old now and I have had the key-fob battery run down to the point the vehicle won't start.
Me too.
My dh had to come get me, take me to Battery Plus and get a new battery, jump start my car, because this was the only time, the vehicle was in the start position, but was not on-the lights and radio burned the battery down.
I totally hate-I have a Volkswagon Tiguan-Loosing my keys is my biggest problem.
I have never gotten out of my vehicle without turning it off.
 
My daughter bought a Ford Fusion Hybrid yesterday. Opening the hood is TERRIFYING. Lots of "DANGER, HIGH VOLTAGE" signs. The battery....the regular one, is in the trunk.
She bought a 100,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. I hope it will cover anything that might happen.

That's a 250+V DC power source which can easily be fatal. I thought that with Toyota Hybrids, all the high voltage wires are in bright orange to warn any emergency personnel who might be trying to reach a trapped passenger, or even just someone working on a car.

P_20151020_095129_LL.jpg


However, cars these days use networking to do a lot of little things, like opening windows. It's not the old fashioned way where everything has its own wire. It's more like a printer in an office network. All the electronics are interconnected. A lot of it was ostensibly to save on wires. Instead of routing a wire that carries power for every single light or window, it's one electronic bus that passes message from a central control to each light, window, etc. But inherent in this is that it's reliant on the security system to say everything is OK before it will turn on the radio or open a window.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus
 
It's not just Toyota that uses the orange to cover the wires...that's pretty universal for high voltage in electric and hybrid cars.

By the way, from your post above about "hot wiring" a car, that's Hollywood stuff. They portray someone getting in, ripping off the column cover, touching two wires and driving away. That's not reality. You could start the car by touching the right wires many years ago, but you couldn't drive it because you still needed to defeat the steering lock and often a shifter lock (for automatics).

Yes, cars use CAN bus systems and have for many years now. Nothing new about that. Your safety equipment is on one system, such as airbags, ABS, traction control. Infotainment is on another, engine control on another, etc...
 
That's a 250+V DC power source which can easily be fatal. I thought that with Toyota Hybrids, all the high voltage wires are in bright orange to warn any emergency personnel who might be trying to reach a trapped passenger, or even just someone working on a car.

P_20151020_095129_LL.jpg


However, cars these days use networking to do a lot of little things, like opening windows. It's not the old fashioned way where everything has its own wire. It's more like a printer in an office network. All the electronics are interconnected. A lot of it was ostensibly to save on wires. Instead of routing a wire that carries power for every single light or window, it's one electronic bus that passes message from a central control to each light, window, etc. But inherent in this is that it's reliant on the security system to say everything is OK before it will turn on the radio or open a window.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus

Orange on the Fusion too.
 

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My parents have this system in their Camry. Their issue is the remote is always “searching” for the car. It hasn’t killed the remote battery yet, but it’s killed the CAR battery twice & Toyota doesn’t have an answer for them aside from “try to store the fob further from the car”.
 
Replaced ours at The Battery Store - for about 5 bucks - I wouldn’t trust batteries from the Dollar Store...
Dollar store batteries can be reliable. I worked for a watch repair shop, and one thing we did was change out watch batteries. We charged $5 to do the battery change. Each battery itself only cost from $.05 to $.20. So we had a huge profit margin. So a $1 battery does not sound crazy.
 
DH bought a RAV4 fairly recently, we've always had the keyless entry fobs, but this is the first vehicle we've had with keyless ignition. I had seen this article, carbon monoxide poisoning is certainly the greatest worry, but in his vehicle anyway, the engine does make enough noise that it's unlikely neither of us would notice if he forgot to turn the motor off and left it in the garage. https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/hidden-dangers-of-push-button-start

A less serious, but more practical worry for me is, what happens when the battery in the key fob runs out? I actually don't even remember replacing them with our other vehicles that had keyless entry (but a traditional key to start the engine), so either I'm really forgetful, or we sold those vehicles before the battery died. With a keyless entry, the worst thing that happens when the battery in the remote dies is that you have to use a key to get into your vehicle. But with keyless ignition, you now have a vehicle with no key to enter OR start. DH commutes out of town, so it would be a hassle for work, an even bigger issue if we were in the middle of nowhere on a vacation. Just wondering if anyone else has had this happen with keyless ignition?

i have a nissan murano with keyless entry/start. there's an indicator on the dashboard that blinks when the battery is running low. i can also pop out the key from the fob, it's concealed in there quite well, if i ever need to actually use a key to get into my car. lastly, i'm not sure how it is with a RAV4, but with a murano unless you turn off the car, the doors won't automatically unlock, so it's not likely to forget to turn off the vehicle. congrats on the new vehicle!
 
Dollar store batteries can be reliable. I worked for a watch repair shop, and one thing we did was change out watch batteries. We charged $5 to do the battery change. Each battery itself only cost from $.05 to $.20. So we had a huge profit margin. So a $1 battery does not sound crazy.

It depends. I wouldn't trust the ones I've seen at Dollar Tree. I stick to the big brands (Maxell, Sony, Panasonic) or the ones that they resell. I certainly wouldn't trust one made in China. Not sure about Energizer or Duracell any more. If one of these things leaks, it will probably destroy the circuit board in the process.

The price isn't the issue, because I've seen the highest quality batteries available for less than 50 cents in bulk quantities. However, the $6 (each) battery at an auto parts store or a car dealer isn't any better than the "tear strip" of 5 that I can buy from an Amazon seller for $3-$4. Getting them in bulk is really the way to go, and they're considered to have a 10 year shelf life.

61fIdQ%2Bg9HL._SL1000_.jpg
 
DH bought a RAV4 fairly recently, we've always had the keyless entry fobs, but this is the first vehicle we've had with keyless ignition. I had seen this article, carbon monoxide poisoning is certainly the greatest worry, but in his vehicle anyway, the engine does make enough noise that it's unlikely neither of us would notice if he forgot to turn the motor off and left it in the garage. https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/hidden-dangers-of-push-button-start

A less serious, but more practical worry for me is, what happens when the battery in the key fob runs out? I actually don't even remember replacing them with our other vehicles that had keyless entry (but a traditional key to start the engine), so either I'm really forgetful, or we sold those vehicles before the battery died. With a keyless entry, the worst thing that happens when the battery in the remote dies is that you have to use a key to get into your vehicle. But with keyless ignition, you now have a vehicle with no key to enter OR start. DH commutes out of town, so it would be a hassle for work, an even bigger issue if we were in the middle of nowhere on a vacation. Just wondering if anyone else has had this happen with keyless ignition?

I have a 2016 RAV4 with push button start. I haven't had any problems with not remembering to turn it off. The car beeps at me if I walk away with the fob in my pocket if the car is still on. There is a key in the fob if the remote doesn't work for whatever reason. I got 2 remotes for my car when I picked it up. A few weeks ago I accidentally ran one of them through a washing machine cycle. It still worked perfectly.

I'm a member of AAA and have been for many years. They've saved me several times.
 
We have a Hyundai Sonata that beeps if you try to walk away and it's running. Never had a problem. We've had the car for 7+ years and I replaced the batteries in the remotes a couple of years ago when the dash display indicated low remote battery and it also has keys in the remotes should you need it. Just push a button and the key pops out, but never needed them.
 
DH bought a RAV4 fairly recently, we've always had the keyless entry fobs, but this is the first vehicle we've had with keyless ignition. I had seen this article, carbon monoxide poisoning is certainly the greatest worry, but in his vehicle anyway, the engine does make enough noise that it's unlikely neither of us would notice if he forgot to turn the motor off and left it in the garage. https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/hidden-dangers-of-push-button-start

A less serious, but more practical worry for me is, what happens when the battery in the key fob runs out? I actually don't even remember replacing them with our other vehicles that had keyless entry (but a traditional key to start the engine), so either I'm really forgetful, or we sold those vehicles before the battery died. With a keyless entry, the worst thing that happens when the battery in the remote dies is that you have to use a key to get into your vehicle. But with keyless ignition, you now have a vehicle with no key to enter OR start. DH commutes out of town, so it would be a hassle for work, an even bigger issue if we were in the middle of nowhere on a vacation. Just wondering if anyone else has had this happen with keyless ignition?


Hammer and push.
 
I have push to start and when my batteries died in both my fobs I was good because they open to become a key. Also it was like, 8 bucks to replace the battery in one.
 
I have push to start and when my batteries died in both my fobs I was good because they open to become a key. Also it was like, 8 bucks to replace the battery in one.
:confused: A key that goes in an ignition somewhere and starts the vehicle? Many of us have the keys that open the door but no ignition slot anywhere.

Another thing I just thought of in terms of leaving the engine running - my Juke engine will stall if the key fob gets too far away from it. We've had this happen a few times when I've got the fob in my bag and DH or DS is driving and drops me off to go find a parking space. :o
 

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