Anyone following the Aziz Ansari situation?

Pea-n-Me

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Hoping we can have a family-friendly discussion about some of the issues involved.

(Most articles have some terms not allowed here so you will have to google if you’re unfamiliar with the story.)
 
I’m not actively following it but when I see an article pop up on Twitter I will read it.

This seems to be a difficult case to really come down either side on. I do agree that no one should be made to do anything they don’t want to and I do sympathize with how she feels, I fee that non verbal clues are way too open to interpretation. If you don’t want to do something or you feel uncomfortable, leave the situation.

I know leaving isn’t always possible and you’d have to be really brave to say no, but, there’s no way I would participate in some of the things that are being reported just because I didn’t feel I could say no.

Maybe you have to be a strong person? Maybe it’s way harder in the heat of the moment?

I don’t know the answers.
 
I'm with kimblebee on this. This is a really odd situation. I think men and women are always going to have a different perception of verbal cues. In any encounter, it's like a "dance" and it's a real push/pull with body language and verbal cues. Those are as individual as there are human beings.

Thinking back, I've probably been in a situation or two where I was with someone I wanted to be with and maybe they were a bit more "pursuant" than I was ready for but I certainly wasn't forced and could have said no. I was more mad at myself for not pushing back. Maybe I was just worried about disappointing the other person because they certainly would have backed off. I don't blame that person in that case, only myself.
 
Yes. I’m not sure what’s allowed here, but I’ll give it my best shot.

I feel this accusation cheapened the #metoo movement. As a sexual abuse survivor myself, what happened here is not the same thing.

Basically it was a bad date. I still can’t decipher what she meant by unspoken cues. And then she was disappointed that he didn’t play with her hair to make her feel better?

Once she said the word no, he backed off. Called her a cab. As well he should. It was a bad date.

But this honestly reminds me of the cliche girlfriend who just sulks and says “you should know why I’m mad.” No, Be a big girl and say what you mean.
 


Totally agree with descovy above.

I don't have a very positive opinion of this "victim." By all accounts, Aziz Ansari is a stand up guy. To my knowledge, no one else has stepped forward with any similar stories.

This girl was a fan who had an idealistic idea of what dating him would be like and he ended up acting like an overzealous teenager. So, basically, he's either immature, lacks experience, or is just socially awkward (none of which would surprise me). He is not a sexual assaulter. This girl needs some perspective. Once she started whining about not being given her preferred type of wine, I was already no longer on her side.
 
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I know leaving isn’t always possible and you’d have to be really brave to say no, but, there’s no way I would participate in some of the things that are being reported just because I didn’t feel I could say no.

.

She said no to intercourse and he called a car to drive her home as soon as she asked to leave. So it certainly doesn’t seem like she was unable to say no or to leave freely.

I will admit, starting the account out with “he gave me a glass or white wine but I really prefer red— what a jerk” kind of set the tone for me and likely colored my impression of her.
 


In all honesty, I had never heard of Aziz Ansari before this. It popped up on my FB one day, multiple times, so I thought I'd see what it was all about. I read the descriptive article. To me, it sounds like the guy was a little too kinky for her and she wasn't expecting it. She was expecting rose petals and champagne and he wanted a quick, um, fling.
She said over and over again that he was ignoring her nonverbal cues. I'm curious what she actually considers nonverbal cues. Was she pushing him away, turning away, turning around completely? Some guys like that and consider it a game. I was hanging out with a guy once, many years ago, and I laid down on his couch. He came over and practically jumped on top of me. I said "Hey, what do you think you're doing?!" and he told me I was sticking my rear in his face and it meant I wanted him. I said, "No, I was just laying down". I said no, right away. I stopped what he thought I wanted, right away. I verbally expressed that I wasn't interested and he backed off, right away.
I totally agree that she has cheapened the #MeToo movement. She had a bad date. She wasn't assaulted, she wasn't even harassed IMHO.
 
What the heck are/were her "non-verbal cues"??? I'm not particularly buying what she is selling here.
 
She said no to intercourse and he called a car to drive her home as soon as she asked to leave. So it certainly doesn’t seem like she was unable to say no or to leave freely.

I will admit, starting the account out with “he gave me a glass or white wine but I really prefer red— what a jerk” kind of set the tone for me and likely colored my impression of her.


From what I’ve read/heard, they did some other sexual stuff (I can’t think of a dis friendly euphemism) and she didn’t feel like she could say no to it. He thought it was consensual.
 
From what I’ve read/heard, they did some other sexual stuff (I can’t think of a dis friendly euphemism) and she didn’t feel like she could say no to it. He thought it was consensual.

I think a non salacious description should be fine. I’ll say it and take the heat if it’s not OK. It was oral, and no they weren’t mutually brushing each other’s teeth. There, I said it.
 
I don't believe he's guilty of what he's being accused of. I think she taking advantage of the me to movement to get her 15 min of fame.

He is totally guilty of what he’s being accused of. He admits that it went down the way the “accuser” describes. But what he’s being accused of doesn’t rise to anything of consequence. The “accuser” looks bad in trying to make this seem like he did something unspeakable.
 
I’ve been a fan of Aziz for years, and some of his standup actually attacks jerky guys. This certainly makes me think he had an off night, but unless more than this surfaces, I’m siding with him. I know it’s hard to say no in the moment. I’ve been there before in awkward situations, but I agree that her account dilutes the movement.
 
I believe that you can withdraw consent at any point; however I believe you also have to be clear. The other person can’t be held responsible for mind reading.

Her first hand account also said that after she said she wanted to slow down, they moved over to sit on/beside the couch but didn’t put their clothes on. I think it’s entirely reasonable to think that if someone is naked with you on a date they are consenting to sexual activity (that would be my non verbal cue that we were imtimate unless they said otherwise).

I think she regretted how the date went (which is completely fair that after an encounter you wished you were more direct or regret that you didn’t speak up or feel terrible for what occurred), however that’s so far from assault. I think we need to be very careful when accusing people of assault and accept some responsibility for speaking up in the moment.
 
From what I’ve read/heard, they did some other sexual stuff (I can’t think of a dis friendly euphemism) and she didn’t feel like she could say no to it. He thought it was consensual.

Yes, I read the article and she didn’t explicitly say that she felt like she couldn’t say no or that it wasn’t consensual.

She mentions later in the evening “feeling in a different mindset at that point”. I could totally be reading more into her word choices, but it does seem like those acts were consensual but she started regretting it and getting uncomfortable after the fact.

Even in the screenshots from her texts with him the following day, she does not mention feeing forced. She says that he should have noticed that she was “uncomfortable” and that she wanted to “go slower”.

All of her specific descriptions of him— like an 18 year old, bad kisser, weird “techniques” that she even made up nicknames for, etc— make it seem to me like she simply wasn’t that into it or didn’t find him as attractive/appealing as she was expecting a celebrity to be.
 
I read her account, and found it odd that she talked so much about him ignoring her non verbal cues when she ignored his very verbal huge red flag cue that he was interested in a hook up and that's it (when he put her on the counter and said what he said). I'm sorry that she felt violated, and I'm very sorry that she didn't have the self respect to leave when it became apparent that she was in a situation that she did not want to be in.
 
I agree with the people that say it was a bad date. It was not sexual assault like she claims in the story. It seems like he made it obvious from the beginning what he was looking for. I think she thought he was looking for a girlfriend instead of a hook-up. She just seems young and naive to me.

Not a bash against men, but many are not very good at non-verbal clues.
 

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