Boorish behavior

Having done the WDW college program, I have a lot of sympathy for the CMs faced with rule breakers. I attempted to enforce rules (smoking area and proper line queuing) exactly twice during my college program. Both times, I got a heaping helping of verbal abuse. One of the guests then complained to my manager and got a free lunch and I got to explain why I shouldn't be disciplined. Once I explained the situation, my manager realized the guest had been out of line -- but it was still such an unpleasant situation. Providing Disney level service is kind of a double edged sword because the assumption is going to be that the guest is right even when the guest is way out of line.

I feel like Disney needs to do more to set specific procedures that cast members can follow to address the types of rule breaking that negatively impact other guests. That way the cast members won't have to worry that they are going to get in trouble for not being "courteous" enough to a guest (which -- to some people -- means "saying words I don't want to hear").
 
Having done the WDW college program, I have a lot of sympathy for the CMs faced with rule breakers. I attempted to enforce rules (smoking area and proper line queuing) exactly twice during my college program. Both times, I got a heaping helping of verbal abuse. One of the guests then complained to my manager and got a free lunch and I got to explain why I shouldn't be disciplined. Once I explained the situation, my manager realized the guest had been out of line -- but it was still such an unpleasant situation. Providing Disney level service is kind of a double edged sword because the assumption is going to be that the guest is right even when the guest is way out of line.

I feel like Disney needs to do more to set specific procedures that cast members can follow to address the types of rule breaking that negatively impact other guests. That way the cast members won't have to worry that they are going to get in trouble for not being "courteous" enough to a guest (which -- to some people -- means "saying words I don't want to hear").

I agree 100%. And that's why I'm saying that those of us affected by the rules not being enforced need to be just as vocal so that they can develop those systems for training and ways to contact someone higher up. AND make sure we are complimenting those CMs who do.

And I totally get it. I used to work at the Disney Store and had a woman try to return something back when seeing ID was a policy and there was not an "opt out". We could not move forward in the system and transaction without it. She wanted a manager, so I got one - who happened to be our sweetest one, all sugar from West Virginia. She was on the phone trying to figure out an override, and this woman started in about how there was a "special reason" we were asking for her ID. Yes, she was a different race, but at the register RIGHT NEXT TO HER a caucasian woman was returning something and was asked for ID (the moment I saw that happen and that person not raise a fuss but this woman was, I knew exactly what she was going to turn it into). As soon as she said that, one of our Latina managers - who had a VERY strong accent just to make it better - came out and asked if there was a problem. The woman at least toned down the racial accusations then, but the manager pretty much called her out on it. It was NOT fun. (Also when I worked at Starbucks, I had one guy at like 5:15am on Valentine's Day come in looking frantically for a gift (we'd been out of most everything for a week). He finally settled on something, making it loudly known he was "settling" and he was not happy with our selection. Then he tried to pay with a $100 bill. We normally didn't accept those ANYWAY unless the purchase was at least $75 because we didn't keep a ton of money in our registers that we could get to - but we'd only been open for 15 minutes and he was like the 2nd customer we had. I asked if he had anything smaller or would like to use a card. My manager repeated the request. Finally - after my shift manager verified that it was a legit $100 bill, he told the man "I will make an exception and let her do this, but you will be getting change back in rolled coins. We have just opened and even if I could open the larger bill boxes, there is nothing in there." The guy grumbled but willingly accepted the rolled coins. And then proceeded to call Corporate from the parking lot to complain. Our store manager had already been called before she got in around 10 and called us both back. We explained what had happened and she said "I was 99.9% sure that is exactly how it went down. I know they've appeased him with coupons they're sending, but I'm going to be talking with the District head and other managers to see how ANYONE can handle this in the future." So she got it. But still. Not pleasant.)
 
That's really sad. I use spray sunscreen on my kids all the time. I move to a place where no one else is around before I spray them, so I don't bother others. And my kids know to move away from people before using it also. If I did bother someone accidentally, and they mentioned it to me, the first thing I would do would be to apologize, not explode into a fit of rage. It's sunscreen. No need for a temper tantrum. How awful that people have to be that way on vacation!!
 
I agree 100%. And that's why I'm saying that those of us affected by the rules not being enforced need to be just as vocal so that they can develop those systems for training and ways to contact someone higher up. AND make sure we are complimenting those CMs who do.

And I totally get it. I used to work at the Disney Store and had a woman try to return something back when seeing ID was a policy and there was not an "opt out". We could not move forward in the system and transaction without it. She wanted a manager, so I got one - who happened to be our sweetest one, all sugar from West Virginia. She was on the phone trying to figure out an override, and this woman started in about how there was a "special reason" we were asking for her ID. Yes, she was a different race, but at the register RIGHT NEXT TO HER a caucasian woman was returning something and was asked for ID (the moment I saw that happen and that person not raise a fuss but this woman was, I knew exactly what she was going to turn it into). As soon as she said that, one of our Latina managers - who had a VERY strong accent just to make it better - came out and asked if there was a problem. The woman at least toned down the racial accusations then, but the manager pretty much called her out on it. It was NOT fun. (Also when I worked at Starbucks, I had one guy at like 5:15am on Valentine's Day come in looking frantically for a gift (we'd been out of most everything for a week). He finally settled on something, making it loudly known he was "settling" and he was not happy with our selection. Then he tried to pay with a $100 bill. We normally didn't accept those ANYWAY unless the purchase was at least $75 because we didn't keep a ton of money in our registers that we could get to - but we'd only been open for 15 minutes and he was like the 2nd customer we had. I asked if he had anything smaller or would like to use a card. My manager repeated the request. Finally - after my shift manager verified that it was a legit $100 bill, he told the man "I will make an exception and let her do this, but you will be getting change back in rolled coins. We have just opened and even if I could open the larger bill boxes, there is nothing in there." The guy grumbled but willingly accepted the rolled coins. And then proceeded to call Corporate from the parking lot to complain. Our store manager had already been called before she got in around 10 and called us both back. We explained what had happened and she said "I was 99.9% sure that is exactly how it went down. I know they've appeased him with coupons they're sending, but I'm going to be talking with the District head and other managers to see how ANYONE can handle this in the future." So she got it. But still. Not pleasant.)

I'm sure that Disney Store customer has been mistreated in retail establishments on account of her race far, far more often than you've been accused of a racially motivated policy. I wouldn't rush to judge.
 


I agree 100%. And that's why I'm saying that those of us affected by the rules not being enforced need to be just as vocal so that they can develop those systems for training and ways to contact someone higher up. AND make sure we are complimenting those CMs who do.

And I totally get it. I used to work at the Disney Store and had a woman try to return something back when seeing ID was a policy and there was not an "opt out". We could not move forward in the system and transaction without it. She wanted a manager, so I got one - who happened to be our sweetest one, all sugar from West Virginia. She was on the phone trying to figure out an override, and this woman started in about how there was a "special reason" we were asking for her ID. Yes, she was a different race, but at the register RIGHT NEXT TO HER a caucasian woman was returning something and was asked for ID (the moment I saw that happen and that person not raise a fuss but this woman was, I knew exactly what she was going to turn it into). As soon as she said that, one of our Latina managers - who had a VERY strong accent just to make it better - came out and asked if there was a problem. The woman at least toned down the racial accusations then, but the manager pretty much called her out on it. It was NOT fun. (Also when I worked at Starbucks, I had one guy at like 5:15am on Valentine's Day come in looking frantically for a gift (we'd been out of most everything for a week). He finally settled on something, making it loudly known he was "settling" and he was not happy with our selection. Then he tried to pay with a $100 bill. We normally didn't accept those ANYWAY unless the purchase was at least $75 because we didn't keep a ton of money in our registers that we could get to - but we'd only been open for 15 minutes and he was like the 2nd customer we had. I asked if he had anything smaller or would like to use a card. My manager repeated the request. Finally - after my shift manager verified that it was a legit $100 bill, he told the man "I will make an exception and let her do this, but you will be getting change back in rolled coins. We have just opened and even if I could open the larger bill boxes, there is nothing in there." The guy grumbled but willingly accepted the rolled coins. And then proceeded to call Corporate from the parking lot to complain. Our store manager had already been called before she got in around 10 and called us both back. We explained what had happened and she said "I was 99.9% sure that is exactly how it went down. I know they've appeased him with coupons they're sending, but I'm going to be talking with the District head and other managers to see how ANYONE can handle this in the future." So she got it. But still. Not pleasant.)

How can asking to see someone's ID be due to "racial" motivations? The picture would match the person in front of you.
 
It's a problem with society in general, not just at Disney. The entitlement, snowflakes, etc. But if DCL doesn't rein in this behavior there are consequences... People who don't like it will be less likely to sail with them. :( It's already gone a long way to keeping me out of the parks. We take far, far fewer trips these days and crowds and boorish behavior is one of the top reasons.
 
I agree 100%. And that's why I'm saying that those of us affected by the rules not being enforced need to be just as vocal so that they can develop those systems for training and ways to contact someone higher up. AND make sure we are complimenting those CMs who do.

That makes sense to me and if I see an interaction where a CM is enforcing a rule that impacts me, I will plan to speak up. Sometimes it's hard to remember to give compliments where they are due, but I do try to make an effort -- especially at Disney where I know guest feedback is valued.
 


How can asking to see someone's ID be due to "racial" motivations? The picture would match the person in front of you.

The issue is that a lot of minorities experience implied, and sometimes even direct, accusations of fraud when they are simply trying to pay for their merchandise. Racial profiling in the retail industry is sadly more common that you might think, and it is embarrassing, hurtful, and frightening for those subjected to it. In this particular case, this was a racially blind policy because it applied to every purchase and the system would not allow the purchase to go through without an ID check. But there is a long history of other prominent stores that have no such universal policy singling out persons of color to check their IDs because those stores view minorities with greater suspicion than white customers. This is just one practice among many that are sadly too common, and which can make minority customers feel like mistrusted, second-class citizens. If you just run a google search you will see a lot of examples of this happening: stores that sent employees to "tail" minority customers by walking very close behind them the entire time they shop because they are suspected of being more likely to shoplift; stores that systematically refused to process credit card transactions from black customers over a certain dollar amount; bag searches of minority customers; calling security or even the police on minority customers accused of lingering too long before making a purchase. I am white, but I know that as a white person, I am lucky that I am never going to have to experience what it feels like to have people regularly looking at me like a thief when all I want to do is go shopping with my own hard-earned money. I wouldn't say it is "boorish behavior" for someone to simply ask whether her ID is being checked because of a general policy, or if she is being singled out for a particular reason, because frankly, there are so many times when the latter is true.
 
The issue is that a lot of minorities experience implied, and sometimes even direct, accusations of fraud when they are simply trying to pay for their merchandise. Racial profiling in the retail industry is sadly more common that you might think, and it is embarrassing, hurtful, and frightening for those subjected to it. In this particular case, this was a racially blind policy because it applied to every purchase and the system would not allow the purchase to go through without an ID check. But there is a long history of other prominent stores that have no such universal policy singling out persons of color to check their IDs because those stores view minorities with greater suspicion than white customers. This is just one practice among many that are sadly too common, and which can make minority customers feel like mistrusted, second-class citizens. If you just run a google search you will see a lot of examples of this happening: stores that sent employees to "tail" minority customers by walking very close behind them the entire time they shop because they are suspected of being more likely to shoplift; stores that systematically refused to process credit card transactions from black customers over a certain dollar amount; bag searches of minority customers; calling security or even the police on minority customers accused of lingering too long before making a purchase. I am white, but I know that as a white person, I am lucky that I am never going to have to experience what it feels like to have people regularly looking at me like a thief when all I want to do is go shopping with my own hard-earned money. I wouldn't say it is "boorish behavior" for someone to simply ask whether her ID is being checked because of a general policy, or if she is being singled out for a particular reason, because frankly, there are so many times when the latter is true.

I am sure that this is all true. But there is a reason why this kind of so called bias started. It is never random. Right or wrong, it all comes from pattern of behavior and not just a random decision. Do you think those stores want to put in the extra man power and security features if there wasn't a problem to begin with. We would all love to live in a utopia where everyone did the right thing. Teenagers get followed in stores too. I have been followed in stores. I don't steal so I don't worry about it. None of us has gone without being treated unfairly in this world.
 
I am sure that this is all true. But there is a reason why this kind of so called bias started. It is never random. Right or wrong, it all comes from pattern of behavior and not just a random decision. Do you think those stores want to put in the extra man power and security features if there wasn't a problem to begin with. We would all love to live in a utopia where everyone did the right thing. Teenagers get followed in stores too. I have been followed in stores. I don't steal so I don't worry about it. None of us has gone without being treated unfairly in this world.

To say racial bias is never random is ignoring centuries of human psychology and behavior.

To say you don't steal so you don't have to worry about it ignores that minorities have been killed by the police when police are called on them when they were doing nothing wrong. I'd say that's something to worry about.

However you feel about this issue aside, I don't think we should be using this forum to say it is "boorish behavior" for a minority customer to speak up when she perceived that she was being made to feel like a criminal for not having ID when she made a return, and expressing a concern that she may have been singled out based on race (even if that was based on a misconception--I'll take the PP at her word that the situation was being handled respectfully on the store's end, and that white people were always carded too).
 
To say racial bias is never random is ignoring centuries of human psychology and behavior.

To say you don't steal so you don't have to worry about it ignores that minorities have been killed by the police when police are called on them when they were doing nothing wrong. I'd say that's something to worry about.

However you feel about this issue aside, I don't think we should be using this forum to say it is "boorish behavior" for a minority customer to speak up when she perceived that she was being made to feel like a criminal for not having ID when she made a return, and expressing a concern that she may have been singled out based on race (even if that was based on a misconception--I'll take the PP at her word that the situation was being handled respectfully on the store's end, and that white people were always carded too).

Nothing at all implied that she was a criminal for returning an item. She had her receipt and the card used for the purchase. The system at the time required ID from ANYONE who made a return - including the caucasian person at the register right next to mine. In fact the CM there realized what was going on and used a slightly louder voice as he asked for ID and said it was a requirement for everyone.
 
I'm not sure why this got sidetracked, but this is supposed to be a thread about bad behavior on Disney cruise ships, like people who spray sunscreen at others, break lots of rules and are generally boorish. Can we go back to complaining about entitled snowflakes who don't care how their behavior affects others around them? I understand that there are serious topics also being discussed, but I don't think this is the thread for that conversation. I hope it's ok that I'm saying this, but I really want this thread to continue and not get shut down. :goodvibes
 
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So, on topic, I'll ask a question. We went to an adult music trivia game at O'Gills Pub. A family brought a child with them. Clearly a child, likely 10-11 years old, not a young looking adult. She was the only kid in there, it was listed as adult only, yet there she was. Should we have complained? She was well behaved, but once you open the door to one kid, why can't all 500 who are on the ship pile in as well? I didn't complain, but it was annoying that they were flaunting the rules and the CMs didn't say anything.
 
So, on topic, I'll ask a question. We went to an adult music trivia game at O'Gills Pub. A family brought a child with them. Clearly a child, likely 10-11 years old, not a young looking adult. She was the only kid in there, it was listed as adult only, yet there she was. Should we have complained? She was well behaved, but once you open the door to one kid, why can't all 500 who are on the ship pile in as well? I didn't complain, but it was annoying that they were flaunting the rules and the CMs didn't say anything.
When we've done activities in the adult only venues, and a child/younger than adult person came in, they've always been asked to leave. I'm surprised that the CM didn't approach them at the beginning of the session and point out it was adult only.
 
So, on topic, I'll ask a question. We went to an adult music trivia game at O'Gills Pub. A family brought a child with them. Clearly a child, likely 10-11 years old, not a young looking adult. She was the only kid in there, it was listed as adult only, yet there she was. Should we have complained? She was well behaved, but once you open the door to one kid, why can't all 500 who are on the ship pile in as well? I didn't complain, but it was annoying that they were flaunting the rules and the CMs didn't say anything.
Was it after 9? If something is listed in the “Adult” row does that mean only adults are allowed? I could see that being confusing if it’s before 9:00, when the Navigator says that’s the time it goes to adults only. If it’s after 9 then there’s no excuse for that.
 
Was it after 9? If something is listed in the “Adult” row does that mean only adults are allowed? I could see that being confusing if it’s before 9:00, when the Navigator says that’s the time it goes to adults only. If it’s after 9 then there’s no excuse for that.

No I don't think so. I think it was called something like "Adult Music Trivia" though and was listed in the adult area of the Navigator. It was made clear on the Nav. but I can't remember the exact time of the event. We were pretty tired most nights, though, so I don't think it was late.
 
Was it after 9? If something is listed in the “Adult” row does that mean only adults are allowed? I could see that being confusing if it’s before 9:00, when the Navigator says that’s the time it goes to adults only. If it’s after 9 then there’s no excuse for that.
Some of the venues in the lounge areas are Family until 9:00. Some are always Adult only. I don't know that posters time of their trivia activity, but I believe O'Gill's is one of the venues that's available for families prior to 9:00.
 
So, on topic, I'll ask a question. We went to an adult music trivia game at O'Gills Pub. A family brought a child with them. Clearly a child, likely 10-11 years old, not a young looking adult. She was the only kid in there, it was listed as adult only, yet there she was. Should we have complained? She was well behaved, but once you open the door to one kid, why can't all 500 who are on the ship pile in as well? I didn't complain, but it was annoying that they were flaunting the rules and the CMs didn't say anything.

Was it after 9? If something is listed in the “Adult” row does that mean only adults are allowed? I could see that being confusing if it’s before 9:00, when the Navigator says that’s the time it goes to adults only. If it’s after 9 then there’s no excuse for that.

They do occasionally have things that are listed as Adults Only during the day in the clubs. A few years ago, there was an Adults Only craft time in the pub on the Fantasy during the day. It was clearly under Adult Activities in the Navigator. And yet here came a mother with her two little ones in tow saying they should be allowed. The CM did try, and then rather than be the heavy left it to the rest of us - literally turned to us and said "Do you mind if they join?" So *we* would be the bad guys. I stayed for about half, then left. And while in that case I didn't go to Guest Services to complain (it was a free activity), I did mention it when I was there for something else.
 
Some of the venues in the lounge areas are Family until 9:00. Some are always Adult only. I don't know that posters time of their trivia activity, but I believe O'Gill's is one of the venues that's available for families prior to 9:00.

Yes. I think so because of the board games and such. And my previously mentioned time on the Fantasy, there were families in playing games - but in the other area from where we were for an activity that was listed as Adult Only. And there was a sign up indicating that as well.
 

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