Buying for a big family

[Ben E N]

No need for Disney to change their offerings for larger families, they make billions in profit as things are now.

Bill

Agreed here. They know what they are doing, even if it is at the expense of some customers. If large families stay off property, that opens up two rooms for two smaller families to stay on property. Not really "fair" to the larger families, but it is good business for them.

 

[Dean]

(I want to be clear that I’m not being hostile or defensive, just engaging in a spirited discussion!)

Of course having more kids means spending more money. But the cost isn’t always commensurate with the size of the family. If you have two or *maybe* three children, you are within Disney’s bounds, but three or four and the cost of your accommodations just doubled when the size of your family is only 50% bigger. You make the comparison between a Corolla and a Suburban - a huge price difference. But I think the more appropriate comparison would be between a cross-over (because that’s what most Americans seem to want to drive these days) and a minivan, and there isn’t a huge price difference there. They add some space and configure things differently, and now a family of six up to even eight is accommodated for around the same price as a family of up to four. (Though I will admit, eight would be pushing it!)

Similarly, I believe that there could be better ways to accommodate larger families in a little more affordable and practical fashion than the current choices. In my opinion, Great Wolf Lodge does an amazing job with this, and other hotels are similarly appointed. (I certainly don’t *love* GWL, but they definitely get hotel rooms right.) I wish that Disney would take a look around, ask some larger families what they want or like, and design from there. I think they tried with AoA, and it probably is great when you have littles, as I said before.

Even the DVC rooms are a little crazy to me. You can sleep 5 in some studios, but most 1BRs only sleep 4? So, a family of five (or six) is either crammed together or has to get a 2BR. There is no in-between.

There is always going to be a “tipping point” in terms of numbers. But I don’t think having three or four kids or grandkids in tow is out of the norm. Disney should make it *easier* for such families precisely because they will be spending more - more on tickets, food, experiences, etc. I fully believe they are losing these families to off-site locations, and thus potentially losing their food and other dollars that could be spent in their parks and resorts. They did us until now, and that’s only because we have recently been abundantly blessed financially. And they could very well be losing these vacation dollars altogether - you admitted that was the case with your family.

On another note - You speak of people cramming into rooms AND Disney being aware of it and doing nothing?!)l? I thought this really didn’t/couldn’t happen anymore? I guess I am naive.

And to be clear, I wasn't picking on you just using your post to make the point and I don't think we disagree all that much. However, for me personally, when I see "Disney has to make it easy and cheap for my exact situation" I think entitlement.

Certainly it's not always incremental and it REALLY can't be consistently. You can usually find something as an example that's good for a given situation but whether it be a cruise, hotel or timeshare there are going to be points where there are big jumps, no way around it. Personally I'm not in favor of approaches that increase the density of a resorts (number of people per room) because there are maint fee issues, parking issues, crowded pools, etc.

While Disney was my first timeshare, it's only a small % of my timeshare involvement for the last 20 yrs so I come from a broader timeshare perspective. I don't believe DVC should have gone with the sleep 5 studios and I believe they should stay rigid on the sleeping occupancy of the units which would mean that most 1BR would only allow 4. We've seen discussions over the years that DVC needed 2 bed sleep 6 1BR units, I'd be absolutely opposed personally and in reality if they had them it'd be enough points that one might as well get a 2 BR anyway. There's just no realistic way to meet everyone's wants/needs and the more options you give the more difficult it makes for reservations and villa assignments. Her's an example: Last week we were at Marriott's Ko Olina resort on Oahu and they have 3 BR lockoff (2BR + studio) and 2 BR L/O (1BR+st) units. So it sounds like units assignments would be fairly simple. But wait, they have 2 views, 2 different 2 BR types, penthouse units none of which are interchangeable. So you really have 6 types of 2 BR units plus the L/O portions. Timeshares including DVC are not for everyone.

 

[4luv2cdisney]

I have several friends with large families and we (family of 4) are now traveling with a 5th, so I've been involved in many of discussions about Disney and larger families as of late. I think that by adding a 5th person option to many studios and some mods, adding family suites in values, the cabins at FW,, etc.... that they really have created some decent options.

Of course, I think the "weird" thing is when you first look at jumping from the studio sleeping 5 and needing a 2 bedroom to fit 6+. Really, I think the only fair comparison is 1 bed to 2 bed. Because really, the point difference is for the kitchen / laundry not the people capacity. So, if you are comparing making the jump from a 1 bed that sleeps 4 to a 2 bed that sleeps 6+, it actually IS about a 50% increase in points for a 50% - 100%+ increase in capacity.

I honestly was on the "unfair to large families" side of things until I came to that realization. I think them allowing 5 in a studio (when many on this board feel they aren't even suitable for 4) is an attempt to make it affordable. I do think it would be nice if they added a 5th sleep surface to 1 beds as they do refurbs though. I also think they should guaranty connecting rooms at values for families that want to go that route.

 

[kboo]

And to be clear, I wasn't picking on you just using your post to make the point and I don't think we disagree all that much. However, for me personally, when I see "Disney has to make it easy and cheap for my exact situation" I think entitlement.

Certainly it's not always incremental and it REALLY can't be consistently. You can usually find something as an example that's good for a given situation but whether it be a cruise, hotel or timeshare there are going to be points where there are big jumps, no way around it. Personally I'm not in favor of approaches that increase the density of a resorts (number of people per room) because there are maint fee issues, parking issues, crowded pools, etc.

While Disney was my first timeshare, it's only a small % of my timeshare involvement for the last 20 yrs so I come from a broader timeshare perspective. I don't believe DVC should have gone with the sleep 5 studios and I believe they should stay rigid on the sleeping occupancy of the units which would mean that most 1BR would only allow 4. We've seen discussions over the years that DVC needed 2 bed sleep 6 1BR units, I'd be absolutely opposed personally and in reality if they had them it'd be enough points that one might as well get a 2 BR anyway. There's just no realistic way to meet everyone's wants/needs and the more options you give the more difficult it makes for reservations and villa assignments. Her's an example: Last week we were at Marriott's Ko Olina resort on Oahu and they have 3 BR lockoff (2BR + studio) and 2 BR L/O (1BR+st) units. So it sounds like units assignments would be fairly simple. But wait, they have 2 views, 2 different 2 BR types, penthouse units none of which are interchangeable. So you really have 6 types of 2 BR units plus the L/O portions. Timeshares including DVC are not for everyone.

This made me look back on my own family's experience. My parents have owned RCI or some other form of timeshare (multiple) for about 35 years. 2BR units in those condos typically slept 6: 2 in a K/Q in the master, 2 single beds (the kids' room) in the 2nd BR, and another 2-3 on a sofa bed or sofa bed+daybed combo in the living room. 1BR units slept 4: 2 in the BR, and 2 on the pullout. So even as a family of 4, we usually stayed in a 2BR at our "home resort" and other easier to get resorts, and used the LR as our hangout space. And if we wanted to go to Hawaii, we crammed into a 1BR and gave up on having personal space and privacy, which was sort of annoying once my sister and I were in high school and college. The fact that DVC 2BR sleep 8-9 and that there are even larger units available, is a big deal for big families.

DVC accommodating 5 in some studios (I think) set up the expectation that if you're going to spend more points to get a larger size unit, that unit *ought* to sleep more people, which means >5 in a 1BR. Even the deluxe hotel rooms can often sleep 5 (I am thinking of GF and Contemporary) In practice, though, trying to put 6 or more in a 1BR or in a single room (and sharing 1 bath) is just painful. And it starts to "compete" (not really) with offsite house rentals where a really large family would get a LOT more space for the money.

 

[Dean]

This made me look back on my own family's experience. My parents have owned RCI or some other form of timeshare (multiple) for about 35 years. 2BR units in those condos typically slept 6: 2 in a K/Q in the master, 2 single beds (the kids' room) in the 2nd BR, and another 2-3 on a sofa bed or sofa bed+daybed combo in the living room. 1BR units slept 4: 2 in the BR, and 2 on the pullout. So even as a family of 4, we usually stayed in a 2BR at our "home resort" and other easier to get resorts, and used the LR as our hangout space. And if we wanted to go to Hawaii, we crammed into a 1BR and gave up on having personal space and privacy, which was sort of annoying once my sister and I were in high school and college. The fact that DVC 2BR sleep 8-9 and that there are even larger units available, is a big deal for big families.

DVC accommodating 5 in some studios (I think) set up the expectation that if you're going to spend more points to get a larger size unit, that unit *ought* to sleep more people, which means >5 in a 1BR. Even the deluxe hotel rooms can often sleep 5 (I am thinking of GF and Contemporary) In practice, though, trying to put 6 or more in a 1BR or in a single room (and sharing 1 bath) is just painful. And it starts to "compete" (not really) with offsite house rentals where a really large family would get a LOT more space for the money.

While DVC might allow more, IMO maxing out the occupancy is often getting more tight than is enjoyable.

 

[Ben E N]

In practice, though, trying to put 6 or more in a 1BR or in a single room (and sharing 1 bath) is just painful.

Speaking from experience as a 13 year old who shared 1 bathroom with a 15, 10, and 7 year old, as well as 2 parents, at Fort Wilderness. Yes, it was painful. Sleeping was tolerable (all of us kids were boys), but the one bathroom led to fights and panic that I still remember 20 years later.

While DVC might allow more, IMO maxing out the occupancy is often getting more tight than is enjoyable.

Even if they wanted to, I am sure they are limited by fire code.

 

[Dean]

Even if they wanted to, I am sure they are limited by fire code.

Unlikely but I was saying they should be strict on the actual sleeping occupancy.

 

[crisi]

While DVC might allow more, IMO maxing out the occupancy is often getting more tight than is enjoyable.

I've stuffed a hotel room or two when I was younger - and while I'm well past it now - enjoyable is in the eye of the beholder. A batch of college students in beds, on floors, in the closet, in the bathtub - wasn't comfy - but it is one of my fonder memories. We were always five to a hotel room when I was growing up - it was the only way we could afford to vacation and frankly, I'm happier we vacationed than I am traumatized that we had one bathroom for five people.

On the other hand, there are a ton of options in the Orlando area to put a large family in that are downright reasonable. None really on property - staying on site at Disney is expensive and the more space you need, the more expensive it will be, but if you value the comfort of a non-stuffed hotel room for a reasonable price, you have options. You'll pay for parking, and if you need to rent a car its going to be a big one (or two smaller ones), but you'd likely still come out ahead over even a DVC rental of a two bedroom.

 

[Dean]

I've stuffed a hotel room or two when I was younger - and while I'm well past it now - enjoyable is in the eye of the beholder. A batch of college students in beds, on floors, in the closet, in the bathtub - wasn't comfy - but it is one of my fonder memories. We were always five to a hotel room when I was growing up - it was the only way we could afford to vacation and frankly, I'm happier we vacationed than I am traumatized that we had one bathroom for five people.

On the other hand, there are a ton of options in the Orlando area to put a large family in that are downright reasonable. None really on property - staying on site at Disney is expensive and the more space you need, the more expensive it will be, but if you value the comfort of a non-stuffed hotel room for a reasonable price, you have options. You'll pay for parking, and if you need to rent a car its going to be a big one (or two smaller ones), but you'd likely still come out ahead over even a DVC rental of a two bedroom.

Certainly it varies which is why I said often. I would define stuffing as over the occupancy which I would see as dishonest and inappropriate.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I agree that the studios sleeping 5 IS crazy, and never should have been done, or at least not changed at BWV, BCV and VWL. But for larger families what you are talking about is essentially taking 2 rooms vs 1 so why should it be anything less than double? ie, if it weren't double then those who are occupying 1 room would be subsidizing those who occupy 2 for less than double the charge. And if that's the case then maybe Disney should get into giving rebates back to couples who occupy a studio after all they are 1/2 of the family of 4? Having some basis in the amount of space is not a bad way to figure it, ie, 2 rooms mean double the cost no matter if you are under occupancy. Even so, 2 bedrooms are not the cost of 3 studios so there is some discount for the larger group. And since staying on property isn't required to visit WDW and they are generally at good occupancy they don't really have a necessity, nor actually any responsibility to give more room for less per person for a larger family.

 

[motherof5]

I hope it passes ROFR. Good luck I too am a family of 7 and have booked 2 studios as well as 2bedroom. 1 bedroom at OKW when one is a baby is good as well.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I hope it passes ROFR. Good luck I too am a family of 7 and have booked 2 studios as well as 2bedroom. 1 bedroom at OKW when one is a baby is good as well.

You put six plus one under the age of three in an OKW one bedroom? Or did I misunderstand?

 

[motherof5]

You put six plus one under the age of three in an OKW one bedroom? Or did I misunderstand?

No it was when I had 4 kids put total of 6 as a baby was allowed. Can't do that anymore since having a 5th child

 

[Deb & Bill]

No it was when I had 4 kids put total of 6 as a baby was allowed. Can't do that anymore since having a 5th child

Ah, got it.