Clarification on David's rental situation

[zskid00]

First time renter here. Fortunately I only rented for 3 nights in May and it came in less than $1k. I asked David's for a refund and this was the wording they used in their response:

Many of the DVC owners we work with choose to rent their points to assist with
covering other expenses in their lives. While some of the DVC owners we work
with would like to help, the majority of owners we work with, including the
owner who booked your stay, are not in the position to issue refunds, as the
funds paid to them many months ago have been put towards those personal
expenses. As such, unfortunately we are unable to offer a refund to you.

They are offering a voucher, but I haven't accepted and I did file a chargeback with my credit card. I don't like this situation one bit.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Renters are *not* getting money back. David's is holding it.

That's why so many of us are so outraged.

Some of us earlier renters were told refunds were available if the owner sent money back or re-rented their points. It was before vouchers were introduced. Not sure if that was offered to those with later reservations, I imagine they realized the issues offering this and that's a big n-o.

 

[Jen F17]

@Jen F17 I'm still interested in an answer. Has David's assured you that you will be paid even if your points do not get rented before they expire?

So, my points are current, fortunately. But I did confirm that the renters were refunded the money that I refunded. They did say people are making reservations for next year. I don’t think that they guarantee rentals of expiring points, but I do know they rent points based on points expiration and use year. Many of them are members themselves. Remember, anyone living outside of the USA can’t even enter the country. Many of my past renters were from all over the world. Just be patient, but they’re not obligated to pay you for intentes points. Much like how we’re paying or have paid DVC for points we can’t use.

 

[Jen F17]

You are one of the very few owners who has been allowed for it to go to a renter vs, them getting the voucher,

As mentioned, he has not allowed other owners that and told them the renter would get the voucher and not the money.

Good for your renters, The frustration expressed here is from both owners and renters who are Not getting the same Cooperation from Davids as you.

Oh, I asked. What would be the point otherwise?

 

[Jen F17]

David’s policy has been not to refund renters but offer a one time use voucher instead. Has he indicated to you that the renters in your case would be refunded?

I asked twice. The most recent case was a lot of money. I have it, but the points won’t expire. That family got a voucher, my points are “spoken for” as far as a new reservation. That family got a voucher.

 

[Marionnette]

So, my points are current, fortunately. But I did confirm that the renters were refunded the money that I refunded. They did say people are making reservations for next year. I don’t think that they guarantee rentals of expiring points, but I do know they rent points based on points expiration and use year. Many of them are members themselves. Remember, anyone living outside of the USA can’t even enter the country. Many of my past renters were from all over the world. Just be patient, but they’re not obligated to pay you for intentes points. Much like how we’re paying or have paid DVC for points we can’t use.

What are “intentes points”? I’ve never heard that term.

And did you confirm with the renters that they were refunded the money, or did David’s tell you that they were refunded? I’d believe the renter but I’m highly doubtful of anything that David’s says without supporting evidence.

How do you “know” that David’s rents the points out based on expiration and UY? Their process is not that transparent.

And just to finish:
If I lose points because I canceled a reservation for myself. Or didn’t plan well. That’s my fault and I accept that I’ll just lose those points. If I rented my points thru a broker and Disney closes the resorts, IMO those points belong to the broker and I should be paid for them regardless of whether they can re-rent those points or not. That was the agreement. And I especially hold a broker accountable when they advise owners not to cancel a reservation so that points can be banked or otherwise salvaged.

 

[Jen F17]

What are “intentes points”? I’ve never heard that term.

And did you confirm with the renters that they were refunded the money, or did David’s tell you that they were refunded? I’d believe the renter but I’m highly doubtful of anything that David’s says without supporting evidence.

How do you “know” that David’s rents the points out based on expiration and UY? Their process is not that transparent.

And just to finish:
If I lose points because I canceled a reservation for myself. Or didn’t plan well. That’s my fault and I accept that I’ll just lose those points. If I rented my points thru a broker and Disney closes the resorts, IMO those points belong to the broker and I should be paid for them regardless of whether they can re-rent those points or not. That was the agreement. And I especially hold a broker accountable when they advise owners not to cancel a reservation so that points can be banked or otherwise salvaged.

That was a typo. I have been working with David’s for over 7 years. They have never cheated me. They always rent MY points by use year and expiration. I do not communicate with the renters. Their process has always been that transparent to ME. I cannot speak for others. The points don’t belong to the broker unless they have been rented. For example, I have posted points that are rentable, but then used them, so I let them know. If they don’t or cannot tent them, there’s no transaction, so they belong to the DVC Member. The points that I did not refund are the brokers. My experience has always been great. I had a family cancel within 30 days and stop payment. David’s found me another renter right away and gave me more money per point b/c of my inconvenience. They didn’t charge the renter b/c their fees are posted.

 

[MIDisFan]

That was a typo. I have been working with David’s for over 7 years. They have never cheated me. They always rent MY points by use year and expiration. I do not communicate with the renters. Their process has always been that transparent to ME. I cannot speak for others. The points don’t belong to the broker unless they have been rented. For example, I have posted points that are rentable, but then used them, so I let them know. If they don’t or cannot tent them, there’s no transaction, so they belong to the DVC Member. The points that I did not refund are the brokers. My experience has always been great. I had a family cancel within 30 days and stop payment. David’s found me another renter right away and gave me more money per point b/c of my inconvenience. They didn’t charge the renter b/c their fees are posted.

While they do use an owner's use year and expiration to determine what window they have to make reservations, I don't believe they have used that information to ensure reservations were not made past banking deadlines, or other ways that could put points at risk. To be fair, prior to the current situation, there really was no need to do so. I've used brokers in the past and have never had an issue either. My biggest problem going forward, and why I refuse to use one in the future, is the new contract in which the owners become responsible under the force majeure clause. I'd rather rent privately if the brokers can't offer me any more security than I could provide myself.

 

[SwirlTheCitrus]

Cancelled by Disney, you can attempt a credit card chargeback. Cancelled by you, you can see if travel insurance through your credit card company would cover it (unlikely).

Question: if I do a credit card chargeback do you think that that will negatively impact the future reservation that I have booked with David's?

 

[Jen F17]

While they do use an owner's use year and expiration to determine what window they have to make reservations, I don't believe they have used that information to ensure reservations were not made past banking deadlines, or other ways that could put points at risk. To be fair, prior to the current situation, there really was no need to do so. I've used brokers in the past and have never had an issue either. My biggest problem going forward, and why I refuse to use one in the future, is the new contract in which the owners become responsible under the force majeure clause. I'd rather rent privately if the brokers can't offer me any more security than I could provide myself.

I don’t rent privately to most family or friends (or strangers) b/c of the “rockstar clause.” I know David’s is bonded and will take payment if a guest damages a room. How do I protect myself against Cousin Joe or my friend Jessica’s stupidity.
But, whether I could use the points or rent them, doesn’t matter. The situation is the same. I don’t use the payment fir anything but DVC. So it sits in a separate account.

 

[Jen F17]

Question: if I do a credit card chargeback do you think that that will negatively impact the future reservation that I have booked with David's?

I would call them first. I would say that would create bad business in the future if you would like to make future reservations.As a DVC Member, they were very helpful. I said if this closure continues while I’m paying DVC, I m at need to go into foreclosure. I have NEVER been in arrears of ANY financial obligation since I started babysitting at 13/14 years old. it would effect 3 reservations that I have, including my own in September, but DVC us not communicating with members.
they were helpful and understanding. Call them. They’re losing business too & im sure they would like to continue operating when this is over.

 

[Marionnette]

I don’t rent privately to most family or friends (or strangers) b/c of the “rockstar clause.” I know David’s is bonded and will take payment if a guest damages a room. How do I protect myself against Cousin Joe or my friend Jessica’s stupidity.
But, whether I could use the points or rent them, doesn’t matter. The situation is the same. I don’t use the payment fir anything but DVC. So it sits in a separate account.

How do you know he is bonded? I don’t see anywhere on the owner’s contract that states this. Have you read about, or had actual experience with, a renter damaging the villa and David’s stepped to to settle the matter? I haven’t.

 

[Sandisw]

Oh, I asked. What would be the point otherwise?

Exaclty. But others have asked to and told no. They would not return it to renters. So, David’s is no longer doing it even when owners refund.

 

[Sandisw]

Question: if I do a credit card chargeback do you think that that will negatively impact the future reservation that I have booked with David's?

If you already have a rental then no. Because if they cancel it you get refunded your money. One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[cvjw]

How do you know he is bonded? I don’t see anywhere on the owner’s contract that states this. Have you read about, or had actual experience with, a renter damaging the villa and David’s stepped to to settle the matter? I haven’t.

I specifically asked this question multiple times before I rented any points thru David. I was told that if damage occurred to the villa, or if the renter left unpaid charges, they would step in to help. I never had that happen, thankfully, but that was one of the reasons I used his service.

 

[MIDisFan]

I don’t rent privately to most family or friends (or strangers) b/c of the “rockstar clause.” I know David’s is bonded and will take payment if a guest damages a room. How do I protect myself against Cousin Joe or my friend Jessica’s stupidity.
But, whether I could use the points or rent them, doesn’t matter. The situation is the same. I don’t use the payment fir anything but DVC. So it sits in a separate account.

It's a false sense of security imo. Ask all the renters who felt secure as long as reservations weren't canceled due to no fault of their own and owners who who felt the same. I'd have to find an old contract to see if there are any terms in regards to room damage or unpaid room charges. I do know when one broker was asked on a forum years ago about that, they stated they had some safe guards in place but didn't explain any further. Without well defined contract language it's meaningless what they say before hand.

I, as well as others, have lost trust in brokers. Everyone has to do what they are comfortable with.

I have to disagree slightly with the point of whether or not you can use the points doesn't matter. If a broker uses your points past your banking deadline and Disney isn't as gracious about extending points in the future, you will incur the entire loss. Granted, you have the choice to accept, or not, that reservation from a broker.

My point isn't in regards to whether or not owners should refund money to brokers in the case where points where made whole. I agree, it should be refunded. The problem I have is what assurances are the brokers giving owners when they do refund. When is the remaining 30% paid, and what if the points aren't used before that extension? Will the new reservation be under new contract language or original contract. We agree, once the broker makes a reservation, the points belong to them. The way I see it, if they can't re-use the points before they expire, they should still pay out the remaining 30%

 

[Madame]

How do you know he is bonded? I don’t see anywhere on the owner’s contract that states this. Have you read about, or had actual experience with, a renter damaging the villa and David’s stepped to to settle the matter? I haven’t.

I wonder if the knowledge is based on a “we” situation.

 

[Jen F17]

I wonder if the knowledge is based on a “we” situation.

No, thankfully, but the renter signs a contract that clearly addresses responsibility for damages. That I have read.

I’m not going to argue the merits of something that none of us have control over. David’s has never “screwed” me regarding any rentals. They’ve helped.
That’s MY personal experience.
My problem, as a member, who has been paying for a service for 18 years is primarily with DVC’s lack of communication of how this will move forward. I don’t understand why members aren’t up in arms about dues. Maybe if we we have some extra, we’ll credit you 9 months (now 7.5) from now, but since we’ll be using your cash for retrofitting for social distancing...Or shortened contracts & mortgage payments. I won’t be that old when my BC contract expires. But, I have 62 days less, so far, in my contract to use.
Use David’s, or don’t. Be mad at them or not. I was sharing my experience with a company that hasn’t let me down. So far.

 

[Jen F17]

It's a false sense of security imo. Ask all the renters who felt secure as long as reservations weren't canceled due to no fault of their own and owners who who felt the same. I'd have to find an old contract to see if there are any terms in regards to room damage or unpaid room charges. I do know when one broker was asked on a forum years ago about that, they stated they had some safe guards in place but didn't explain any further. Without well defined contract language it's meaningless what they say before hand.

I, as well as others, have lost trust in brokers. Everyone has to do what they are comfortable with.

I have to disagree slightly with the point of whether or not you can use the points doesn't matter. If a broker uses your points past your banking deadline and Disney isn't as gracious about extending points in the future, you will incur the entire loss. Granted, you have the choice to accept, or not, that reservation from a broker.

My point isn't in regards to whether or not owners should refund money to brokers in the case where points where made whole. I agree, it should be refunded. The problem I have is what assurances are the brokers giving owners when they do refund. When is the remaining 30% paid, and what if the points aren't used before that extension? Will the new reservation be under new contract language or original contract. We agree, once the broker makes a reservation, the points belong to them. The way I see it, if they can't re-use the points before they expire, they should still pay out the remaining 30%

I think part of the problem is those banked points. I can’t speak on that, I don’t have any banked points that will expire before 2021. I still have some options.

 

[Sandisw]

No, thankfully, but the renter signs a contract that clearly addresses responsibility for damages. That I have read.

I’m not going to argue the merits of something that none of us have control over. David’s has never “screwed” me regarding any rentals. They’ve helped.
That’s MY personal experience.
My problem, as a member, who has been paying for a service for 18 years is primarily with DVC’s lack of communication of how this will move forward. I don’t understand why members aren’t up in arms about dues. Maybe if we we have some extra, we’ll credit you 9 months (now 7.5) from now, but since we’ll be using your cash for retrofitting for social distancing...Or shortened contracts & mortgage payments. I won’t be that old when my BC contract expires. But, I have 62 days less, so far, in my contract to use.
Use David’s, or don’t. Be mad at them or not. I was sharing my experience with a company that hasn’t let me down. So far.

DVCM did address dues. They said that when this is over, any surplus will be used to offset the 2021 dues owed and not put into capital reserves like the contract indicates it should

I don’t want to derail thread but I just don’t get what information about opening and the program is lacking Right now..other than saying we still don’t have anymore answers yet.