Copper Creek Villas - Direct vs. Resale - ALOT of details please

[HallDisney2019]

good evening

Looking into purchasing roughly 220 points with a home resort at CCV (Copper Creek). Should I purchase direct or purchase on the resale market? I do not have the cash on hand, so I would have to finance.

What are pros and cons of both?

If I plan on visiting each year (with DVC points), at what year would my break-even point be (assuming I would visit every other year to CCV if I did not purchase points)?

What would be my total cost per point over the length of the contract (less maintenance fees as these are variable costs and does not matter resale or direct)

Am i missing anything?

Thank you for your help

 

[poofyo101]

Resale. Will save about 40% from purchasing direct.

 

[HallDisney2019]

Resale. Will save about 40% from purchasing direct.

But with the new resale restrictions and the "future" use to new resorts, am I missing out? In 30 years, how many of the original 14 resorts are going to be left which will reduce my ability to stay elsewhere besides my home resort. In addition, with the annual pass option and the significant increase in the platinum cost A/P will the costs balance themselves out?

Adventures by Disney and the Cruise line are the only other two "benefits" i like, but can live without. the other "benefits" have no interest to me

 

[poofyo101]

These are questions you can't ask someone else IMO. These questions will vary person to person based upon what you deem valuable.

I was told you should not count on AP discounts.
I am personally not concerned with only use at the original 14 as I think you will be able to buy contracts resale on the newer resorts for quite the deal once they hit the market as the resale restrictions should make then a bargain.
I think the original 14 resorts give you plenty of options for plenty of time that the difference in resale and direct is a no brainer to go resale.
You also have to think that you may not keep the contract the entire time and move onto another contract or just move on in general.

 

[ELMC]

good evening

Looking into purchasing roughly 220 points with a home resort at CCV (Copper Creek). Should I purchase direct or purchase on the resale market? I do not have the cash on hand, so I would have to finance.

Given the recent price increase to $210 I would strongly recommend saving the money on a resale contract. Add in the financing charges and you are really forgoing any real savings at that price point for quite some time. Additionally, while no one plans on having things go poorly, if you buy resale and have to get out you will recover the majority of your costs, which is especially important seeing as how you will be financing. If you purchase direct at $210 and resale prices are in the $140-150 range (before commission) you could really take a huge loss if you were forced to sell. Why set yourself up for that?

What are pros and cons of both?

There are a ton of threads on here regarding that, but a quick answer would be direct pro is the blue card membership, con is that it is more expensive. Resale pro is savings con is the restrictions.

If I plan on visiting each year (with DVC points), at what year would my break-even point be (assuming I would visit every other year to CCV if I did not purchase points)?

There's so much to unpack here. First, the implication is that if you bought DVC you would go every year but if you didn't you would go every other year. So to start off with it's sort of an apples and oranges comparison. That said, it would really be in your best interest to do the calculations yourself for two reasons. First, you will learn a TON in the process about how DVC works, what your options are, relative costs, etc. The second is that everyone uses different assumptions and those assumptions greatly influence the breakeven point.

That said, I'll give you an oversimplified answer. If you buy direct and finance, it would take you approximately 30 years to break even vs. simply renting points at CCV each year. If you bought resale that number would shrink to about 20 years. If you used rack rates with a discount the numbers would change to roughly 25 and 15 years respectively.

What would be my total cost per point over the length of the contract (less maintenance fees as these are variable costs and does not matter resale or direct)

Am i missing anything?

Thank you for your help

Your total point cost per year would be whatever you pay divided by the number of years left on the contract. That said, IMO that is a terrible way to look at DVC because if your points cost you $4 a piece each year, you are required to pay that $4 now for points you get 40 years from now. $4 in 40 years could easily be worth $30-40 or more. The generally accepted way to look at DVC is over a ten or fifteen year horizon. If it makes sense for that timeframe then it will likely make sense overall.

FWIW I would recommend against buying CCV direct at $210 per point. I would strongly recommend against financing it. I would barely recommend buying CCV on the resale market and I have no recommendations one way or another about buying CCV resale and financing. But I am by far one of the most bearish posters on these boards with regards to DVC, so at least I've established one end of the spectrum. Good luck with your decision.

 

[sethschroeder]

If I plan on visiting each year (with DVC points), at what year would my break-even point be

That said, it would really be in your best interest to do the calculations

ELMC is correct you should really start by running the calculations yourself because there is way to many variables. To help you get started though here is the things to think about.

• How much per point / by years left = price per point per year
• Figure 3-5% increase in maintenance fees per year
• Don't forget that hotel rates go up as well so factor that in (and there are discounts on hotels most people don't pay rack rate)
• Don't forget renting DVC is an option
• If doing direct will you be staying long enough to factor in an annual pass discount? (which could go away at any time)
• What hotels would you stay at if you didn't buy DVC when going to WDW? You can run the math with multiple (I did DVC Rental, Value, and Swan/Dolphin for comparison)

In 30 years, how many of the original 14 resorts are going to be left which will reduce my ability to stay elsewhere besides my home resort.

Check out expiration chart but also remember in 30 years you might not be able to get rooms at other resorts anyways. People already talk about issues at the 7 month window and in the future more and more resorts when they roll over to new contracts likely will pick up the home-resort stay only language. If people are stuck staying at a single resort they likely would book even sooner blocking out others who want to resort hop.

Direct vs Resale only you can decide but if you run the math you can then get a better idea of how big that gap is.

 

[Pyotr]

Given the recent price increase to $210 I would strongly recommend saving the money on a resale contract. Add in the financing charges and you are really forgoing any real savings at that price point for quite some time. Additionally, while no one plans on having things go poorly, if you buy resale and have to get out you will recover the majority of your costs, which is especially important seeing as how you will be financing. If you purchase direct at $210 and resale prices are in the $140-150 range (before commission) you could really take a huge loss if you were forced to sell. Why set yourself up for that?


There are a ton of threads on here regarding that, but a quick answer would be direct pro is the blue card membership, con is that it is more expensive. Resale pro is savings con is the restrictions.


There's so much to unpack here. First, the implication is that if you bought DVC you would go every year but if you didn't you would go every other year. So to start off with it's sort of an apples and oranges comparison. That said, it would really be in your best interest to do the calculations yourself for two reasons. First, you will learn a TON in the process about how DVC works, what your options are, relative costs, etc. The second is that everyone uses different assumptions and those assumptions greatly influence the breakeven point.

That said, I'll give you an oversimplified answer. If you buy direct and finance, it would take you approximately 30 years to break even vs. simply renting points at CCV each year. If you bought resale that number would shrink to about 20 years. If you used rack rates with a discount the numbers would change to roughly 25 and 15 years respectively.


Your total point cost per year would be whatever you pay divided by the number of years left on the contract. That said, IMO that is a terrible way to look at DVC because if your points cost you $4 a piece each year, you are required to pay that $4 now for points you get 40 years from now. $4 in 40 years could easily be worth $30-40 or more. The generally accepted way to look at DVC is over a ten or fifteen year horizon. If it makes sense for that timeframe then it will likely make sense overall.

FWIW I would recommend against buying CCV direct at $210 per point. I would strongly recommend against financing it. I would barely recommend buying CCV on the resale market and I have no recommendations one way or another about buying CCV resale and financing. But I am by far one of the most bearish posters on these boards with regards to DVC, so at least I've established one end of the spectrum. Good luck with your decision.

I believe CCV recently went up to $220 a point direct.

OP, keep in mind that studios are very competitive at CCV even at the 11 month mark.

 

[ELMC]

I believe CCV recently went up to $220 a point direct.

OP, keep in mind that studios are very competitive at CCV even at the 11 month mark.

Thanks for the correction. Add another 1.5 years onto the breakeven calculation.

 

[€lairebear]

Resale. Will save about 40% from purchasing direct.

Actually you don’t truly save 40% on resale market that’s a huge exaggeration. If it’s truly 40% of direct pricing of $220 per point that means resale ccv is selling for about $130 per point. If it was $210 per point before the price increase ccv selling for about $126 per point is also not true it’s going for $140s to $160s in the resale market depending on the size of the contract. The savings are about 27% resale if you look at some resale companies that post savings each month. Here’s one of the most recent for September.
]

 

[Ruttangel]

Actually you don’t truly save 40% on resale market that’s a huge exaggeration. If it’s truly 40% of direct pricing of $220 per point that means resale ccv is selling for about $130 per point. If it was $210 per point before the price increase ccv selling for about $126 per point is also not true it’s going for $140s to $160s in the resale market depending on the size of the contract. The savings are about 27% resale if you look at some resale companies that post savings each month. Here’s one of the most recent for September.
]

Using finance could increase this difference somewhat, heading up towards 40%

 

[poofyo101]

Actually you don’t truly save 40% on resale market that’s a huge exaggeration. If it’s truly 40% of direct pricing of $220 per point that means resale ccv is selling for about $130 per point. If it was $210 per point before the price increase ccv selling for about $126 per point is also not true it’s going for $140s to $160s in the resale market depending on the size of the contract. The savings are about 27% resale if you look at some resale companies that post savings each month. Here’s one of the most recent for September.
]

I still would think its is about 40% depending obviously how good the deal is on the contract and how many points it comes with initially. Most places do not charge you the MF fees on contracts for the first year and it was my understanding that Disney did.

 

[CarolMN]

........(snip).........Adventures by Disney and the Cruise line are the only other two "benefits" i like, but can live without. the other "benefits" have no interest to me

Using points, especially those bought recently, are considered to be a very poor economic choice. IMO, that "benefit" should not even be a consideration for your purchase decision. Here's why:

Using Points for the DVC "Collections"


If you haven't already discovered the DIS DVC Resource Center, I encourage you to give it a look, especially the links in post #2. This one is directly related to your question:

PURCHASE DIRECT FROM DISNEY OR RESALE?

Good luck with your research.

 

[crvetter]

I still would think its is about 40% depending obviously how good the deal is on the contract and how many points it comes with initially. Most places do not charge you the MF fees on contracts for the first year and it was my understanding that Disney did.

Actually if you buy resale it is typical that as a buyer you would pay MF for any UY with points. Depending on which UY you are buying and if the current points are available direct could be cheaper in terms of MF than resale.

For example say you are buying a December UY, direct you would get 2018 points but for this calendar year you would be only be paying 2 months of MF, and get 2018 points almost “free”. However if you bought a resale contract with the 2018 & 2019 points you would have to pay all 12 months of MF for 2019 calendar year, unlikely you would pay for the 2018 points cause they would expire soon. And in both cases 2020 would have full MF so here direct is cheaper for the MF costs (and get you a “free” year of points that can be banked since they waive it for direct buyers) but obviously still more than resale in terms purchase price.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Resale. No contest. Same product, less money. Almost no actual “perks” associated with direct. If you decide you want direct, add on 100points with a less expensive resort down the line. You will probably end up wanting more points anyway.

 

[Soap_1984]

I agree mostly with ELMC. I saved 40%+ on my contract; keep in mind that unlike direct, price per point decreases generally on the resale market with increasing number of points. Also, you can pay slightly more and buy a loaded contract; for example my recent contract at akv I paid $120 x 160 points but seller paid all MF and it came with 300 points loaded (not including 2020 points that land in June). If you factor that in i saved over 40% and I probably could have gotten it cheaper if I was willing to hold out.

I also do not think price per point is a good way to look at it; it also ignores the point chart at the resort. I think it is hard to get a studio at depending on when you go at ccv, and if you aren't going to plan 11 months in advance then it may not be a good solution for you.

My approach to dvc has been totally different, but I cannot make the numbers work to really justify buying direct over the course of 20 years. If, without dvc, you won't even go every year I would say it's an absolute no brainer to not buy dvc at all; you will get your room every other year at ccv for sure via just booking with disney with some notice or renting points.

An alternative would buy buying a cheaper resort on resale. with the total cost of ccv vs say, saratoga, you could get more points or just go every other year and stay in a 1 bedroom which are easier to book anywhere really with less notice. You could also book at ccv if you are on the ball in a one bedroom. My approach is to accumulate as many points as I can knowing I don't necessarily need to buy where I want to stay, given that I primarily want 1 bedrooms or two bedrooms, will plan 6-7 months out and rarely go at the busiest times of the year.

You need to decide how often you really want to go, what size room you are looking for, how far out you want to plan and what times of year you will go on average. Once you have that the math is easy.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Actually if you buy resale it is typical that as a buyer you would pay MF for any UY with points. Depending on which UY you are buying and if the current points are available direct could be cheaper in terms of MF than resale.

For example say you are buying a December UY, direct you would get 2018 points but for this calendar year you would be only be paying 2 months of MF, and get 2018 points almost “free”. However if you bought a resale contract with the 2018 & 2019 points you would have to pay all 12 months of MF for 2019 calendar year, unlikely you would pay for the 2018 points cause they would expire soon. And in both cases 2020 would have full MF so here direct is cheaper for the MF costs (and get you a “free” year of points that can be banked since they waive it for direct buyers) but obviously still more than resale in terms purchase price.

Also, we did not pay MF for the extra points on our 2 loaded resale contracts but we did pay for the “extra points” when we added on direct with Disney. MF are negotiable with resale. Brokers may try to steer you towards paying them, but just say no and see what happens. Worked for us.

 

[jerseyduke]

at 220 a point CCV direct is insane for that many points.
But you can do some of both. If you insist on buying direct for the AP benefit, buy 100 points and buy the resale (buying resale first).

I personally would not pay that premium for the "other resorts" benefit. Grand Floridian and Poly both have over 40 years worth of life left.

Then ask yourself this. What future resorts are you taking about? After reflections, you have to start to wonder what will come next. The prime locations are running slim. They might move to DVC 2.0 and do a moderate version which would not be included. They might not, who knows.

If you think this will be an issue in 30 years, buy something new then.

How much are you going to finance? 220 points direct, you might pay 2000$ or more in interest. That will blow away the savings on your APs.

You are better off renting your points out and paying cash for cruises or adventures by Disney.
That perk is useless.

Other resorts - Right now that means Riviera and Reflections - its possible that there may not be others. There probably will be, but its a possibility their wont be.

Gold AP passes - Nice discount and option - but if you are paying a lot in interest, there goes that savings.

I would not even consider buying direct based on what you are saying.

Edited for my poor grammar.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I think if you're worrying about break-even points, getting into worries about O14 vs. direct on resorts that aren't even built or open, that will be highly restrictive for many owners to trade OUT from, is probably getting yourself worked up over something not important.

 

[Sandisw]

With 220 points, I would maybe consider doing a mix of both If the AP discount is something, due to size of family, could help offset the cost of buying resale.

For example, if you bought 100 or so CCV direct to get the benefit, it’d be about $7k more than those points on resale...I’m not counting financing as you will do that either way.

With the current AP deal and the size of your family, you could make that back in as soon as 5 - 7 years.

Owning a combination of direct and resale gives you points to use at the new resorts, and the benefits, but also gives you some saving over buying direct with Disney,

Now, if you hsve a Disney Visa, you can buy the direct contract and get 6 months 0% interest, which could save you a little as you wouldn’t have to finance that part of it as long,

When we bought, we looked at the room cost of our typical 5 night trip at deluxe, with a modest 30% discount, and compared to what it would cost for that same trip with DVC, including MFs and monthly payments if we financed. As long as it was more, we felt it was a good deal, especially since we would be staying in a 1 bedroom instead of just a room.

Now, we ended up not financing, but had we, we still would have done it. Granted, in 10 years, we have gone from the original 180 to today having 825, so my MFs alone are costing a good deal,

But, I still get more In stays than if I remained a cash guest.

Good luck!

 

[€lairebear]

I still would think its is about 40% depending obviously how good the deal is on the contract and how many points it comes with initially. Most places do not charge you the MF fees on contracts for the first year and it was my understanding that Disney did.

Yes they do depending if it’s a loaded contract. That’s negotiable between the buyer and seller. If you are keen on buying a small contract sometimes it is better to buy Disney direct since small contracts go for more in the resale market and may save you maybe 1k or 2k. The choice to buy resale or direct it’s up to the individual there’s no right or wrong answer to that. I’ve bought both direct and resale and would buy both ways if I were to add more points. I would buy direct when I do the math when resale doesn’t save me that much. I’ve seen a lot of times in forums folks would advocate to buy resale and resale only because they save 10s and thousands and I feel that statement is misleading especially for those that are new to dvc and researching which routes to take unless they crunch their own numbers if they really do. Now I believe years back when folks purchased via resale they saved a lot more than today’s resale prices vs direct.