Dark descent into depravity

[Floridaman999]

This is a well written and very informative article about Adam Lanza. If you have the time and desire, I recommend it. It at least provides more information about how it all developed.

https://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-news-sandy-hook-lanza-new-documents-20181204-story.html

 

[Owlpost23]

What a sick kid.Unbelievable article.

 

[Floridaman999]

What a sick kid.Unbelievable article.

Some of the information they were able to gain from those documents is pretty scary. Sick kid indeed.

 

[Owlpost23]

Some of the information they were able to gain from those documents is pretty scary. Sick kid indeed.

It was truly eyeopening.I can't imagine how he functioned like that for as long as he did.

 

[Floridaman999]

It was truly eyeopening.I can't imagine how he functioned like that for as long as he did.

Mental illness can be a scary and confusing thing, that's for sure. Considering how sick he was, I'm surprised he was so high functioning as well, all things considered.

 

[GreatLakes]

What a terrible human being. The world is better without him. It is too bad he took so many young, innocent lives with him.

 

[Colleen27]

That was simultaneously horrifying and heartbreaking. So many red flags and so much denial.

I can't even imagine what it must have been like for the reporters who have covered this case from the start to wade through a thousand plus pages of that stuff to distill it into an article. There can't be any easy way to get it out of your head.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Very disturbing.

 

[Skellingtonj]

Honestly won’t read it. Don’t care. He’s a sick sick person who wanted to hurt as many as he could. He just happened to take out a kindergarten class. My oldest and my nephew were both in K when this happened.. a flip of a coin and it could have been either one of their schools. I couldn’t watch any coverage when it happened.

 

[LSUmiss]

That was simultaneously horrifying and heartbreaking. So many red flags and so much denial.

I can't even imagine what it must have been like for the reporters who have covered this case from the start to wade through a thousand plus pages of that stuff to distill it into an article. There can't be any easy way to get it out of your head.

And that’s the thing about mental health that ppl want to throw out as the cause & solution for mass violence. It’s not that similar. Not everything is treatable. He has years of treatment. Our country has a crisis with mental health care, but he had treatment. He most likely also had a personality disorder like anti-social personality d/o. It’s pervasive & most agree not really treatable. It essentially becomes who you are.

ETA: And despite all of this he had access to
weapons.

 

[luvsJack]

He committed a despicable act and there is no reason or excuse to possibly explain how he became so little of a human being that he could shoot those babies. He was a sick monster.

But, the article is interesting and horrifying at the same time. What happened to this person? The illustrations of his book about Granny are horrifying by themselves. Did something happen to him to make him come up with this stuff?

And his mom? In high school, wanting him to be schooled at home because he couldn't handle going to school and then wanting to send him away to college where she knew he couldn't handle the dorm situation? That doesn't compute to me at all.

The not taking offered medication seemed, to me, a tell tale sign. Would being on medication helped him? Would have stopped the shooting? Maybe, but we won't ever know.

At some point, if a person is found to me mentally unstable enough, should we somehow require medication or hospitalization? If there is a passed point of instability, seems like he passed it long before he picked up a gun.

 

[Colleen27]

And that’s the thing about mental health that ppl want to throw out as the cause & solution for mass violence. It’s not that similar. Not everything is treatable. He has years of treatment. Our country has a crisis with mental health care, but he had treatment. He most likely also had a personality disorder like anti-social personality d/o. It’s pervasive & most agree not really treatable. It essentially becomes who you are.

He access to treatment, but it didn't sound as though he was getting what he needed - the documents paint a pretty telling picture of a mom who wouldn't medicate, wouldn't force the kid outside of his comfort zones, and who repeatedly sought out different opinions when she didn't like what she heard. The comments from the one evaluation about the mother seeking to adapt the world to her son, rather than help her son adapt to the world spoke volumes... How much of his lashing out was because he had no strategies for adapting to a world that wasn't interested in accommodating him? Would following any of those treatment suggestions have made a difference? There's no way to know. But the material that was released certainly points to how complex questions of mental health care can be, and how the persistent stigma around mental illness can undermine treatment even when money and access to care are not factors.

I still can't wrap my head around what that mother was thinking, though. How can someone be THAT aware of a child's mental illness and violent fantasies and still think going out shooting is a good form of recreation to share with the kid? Or keep guns accessible in their home? I'm sure no parent thinks their kid could do something like what Lanza did at Sandy Hook, but the suicide risk alone would have had me storing my guns elsewhere or getting rid of them completely.

 

[LSUmiss]

He access to treatment, but it didn't sound as though he was getting what he needed - the documents paint a pretty telling picture of a mom who wouldn't medicate, wouldn't force the kid outside of his comfort zones, and who repeatedly sought out different opinions when she didn't like what she heard. The comments from the one evaluation about the mother seeking to adapt the world to her son, rather than help her son adapt to the world spoke volumes... How much of his lashing out was because he had no strategies for adapting to a world that wasn't interested in accommodating him? Would following any of those treatment suggestions have made a difference? There's no way to know. But the material that was released certainly points to how complex questions of mental health care can be, and how the persistent stigma around mental illness can undermine treatment even when money and access to care are not factors.

I still can't wrap my head around what that mother was thinking, though. How can someone be THAT aware of a child's mental illness and violent fantasies and still think going out shooting is a good form of recreation to share with the kid? Or keep guns accessible in their home? I'm sure no parent thinks their kid could do something like what Lanza did at Sandy Hook, but the suicide risk alone would have had me storing my guns elsewhere or getting rid of them completely.

But I can tell you from experience that this is pretty typical for kids in mental health treatment. I’m not saying there are not success stories, but I worked years in mental health as a child therapist & how this mom handled things is very common. Kids this troubled usually end up as troubled adults despite “treatment”. BUT, IMO, he also developed a severe personality d/o & there was likely no fix by that time. Meds don’t cure or treat delusions well. I do think better parenting could have maybe prevented or at least mitigated the situation, BUT what do we do about that as a society to prevent these tragedies?

 

[LSUmiss]

He committed a despicable act and there is no reason or excuse to possibly explain how he became so little of a human being that he could shoot those babies. He was a sick monster.

But, the article is interesting and horrifying at the same time. What happened to this person? The illustrations of his book about Granny are horrifying by themselves. Did something happen to him to make him come up with this stuff?

And his mom? In high school, wanting him to be schooled at home because he couldn't handle going to school and then wanting to send him away to college where she knew he couldn't handle the dorm situation? That doesn't compute to me at all.

The not taking offered medication seemed, to me, a tell tale sign. Would being on medication helped him? Would have stopped the shooting? Maybe, but we won't ever know.

At some point, if a person is found to me mentally unstable enough, should we somehow require medication or hospitalization? If there is a passed point of instability, seems like he passed it long before he picked up a gun.

He should never have had access to weapons for sure. But, as far as hospitalization, what had he done to prove himself unstable? The answer is nothing until he did what he did. You can’t lock someone up for their thoughts. The law in most states says a person must be an IMMINENT danger to self or others or gravely disabled. Based on the info in the
article, he was none of those until he was.

 

[luvsJack]

He should never have had access to weapons for sure. But, as far as hospitalization, what had he done to prove himself unstable? The answer is nothing until he did what he did. You can’t lock someone up for their thoughts. The law in most states says a person must be an IMMINENT danger to self or others or gravely disabled. Based on the info in the
article, he was none of those until he was.

Perhaps we need to change the laws.

Mental health professionals can and do tell when someone is going to become a threat to themselves or others, if something isn't done to help them. There is no way anyone looked at the ramblings of this kid or had conversations with him and didn't know. He NEEDED hospitalization. He NEEDED medication. He never had any kind of chance to even remotely be a member of society.

The illustrations of the book he wrote, maybe someone with a psychology degree could chime in here but to my eye says something happened to this person.

Getting or not getting a gun wasn't going to stop this person from doing something horrible. Not having a gun would have been the obviously better option but if we sit and say we can't hospitalize someone that isn't an imminent danger or "well, we couldn't do anything because he wasn't ACTUALLY a danger YET"; exactly how are we going to flip around and say this person is mentally ill and can't have a gun?

 

[GreatLakes]

I still can't wrap my head around what that mother was thinking, though. How can someone be THAT aware of a child's mental illness and violent fantasies and still think going out shooting is a good form of recreation to share with the kid? Or keep guns accessible in their home? I'm sure no parent thinks their kid could do something like what Lanza did at Sandy Hook, but the suicide risk alone would have had me storing my guns elsewhere or getting rid of them completely.

That mother was a big factor in that tragedy. She got exactly what she deserved from him. It is just too bad it wasn't a simple murder-suicide. Regardless of what the law says about his access to weapons any even half decent adult that had a child with his issues wouldn't have had them in the house even if legally she was entitled to have them. I do feel sorry for the brother that our crack media (read:collection of idiots) reported was the perpetrator when he wasn't involved in any way.

 

[LSUmiss]

Perhaps we need to change the laws.

Mental health professionals can and do tell when someone is going to become a threat to themselves or others, if something isn't done to help them. There is no way anyone looked at the ramblings of this kid or had conversations with him and didn't know. He NEEDED hospitalization. He NEEDED medication. He never had any kind of chance to even remotely be a member of society.

The illustrations of the book he wrote, maybe someone with a psychology degree could chime in here but to my eye says something happened to this person.

Getting or not getting a gun wasn't going to stop this person from doing something horrible. Not having a gun would have been the obviously better option but if we sit and say we can't hospitalize someone that isn't an imminent danger or "well, we couldn't do anything because he wasn't ACTUALLY a danger YET"; exactly how are we going to flip around and say this person is mentally ill and can't have a gun?

I am a mental health professional & know many others in the profession...and it’s just NOT the simple. If it were, it would be done. Psychology & psychiatry are not exact sciences. It is not easy to tell who will or won’t do something. No mental health professional would agree to commit a kid for the rest of his life no matter how disturbed his writing is. I’ve worked in facilities where professionals couldn’t even agree on freedoms that should be allowed a resident in the facility b/c some thought they were more dangerous than others,etc. While it’s usually not surprising when someone like Lanza does something like this due to his history that is very different from accurately predicting beforehand that he would. Mentally ill ppl still have rights. Just b/c someone writes or says things like he did, does not mean he will do anything. Many ppl never act upon their thoughts/delusions. In mental health, the agreed upon thought is the biggest predictor of future behavior is current behavior. According to current info, this kid hadn’t done anything before. I would not want to live in a society where we lock up ppl b/c of something they might do. See 1984 & the thought police.

 

[cabanafrau]

That mother was a big factor in that tragedy. She got exactly what she deserved from him. It is just too bad it wasn't a simple murder-suicide. Regardless of what the law says about his access to weapons any even half decent adult that had a child with his issues wouldn't have had them in the house even if legally she was entitled to have them. I do feel sorry for the brother that our crack media (read:collection of idiots) reported was the perpetrator when he wasn't involved in any way.

The mother was absolutely key in the case. She all but paved the road to tragedy and rolled a red carpet on it. It's common for parents to struggle with the reality of addressing such drastically real problems with their children. Thankfully most of them stop short of not only blocking access to firearms, but definitely not providing them.

I got sucked into watching a program the other night where the parents of Casey Anthony were interviewed. It was like a horrific car crash I couldn't look away from. The mother is viciously protective of her image of her daughter as a good mother, even in the face of strong evidence that contradicts her beliefs. She still cannot even admit to the fact her daughter frequently took that baby out until all hours, frequently not bringing her home at all overnight on several occasions. When her husband suggested he had witnessed this behavior many times she shouted him down and stood hard on the fact that she was her daughter's mother and only she knew best what really went on. It really explained for me why they didn't raise the roof early on about the little girl's whereabouts and the situation with the smell of death in that car.

I definitely want to tread very lightly with the idea of broadening the government's powers to restrict individual liberty based on assumptions and speculation.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

I won't read it It happened not that far from where I live, it happened on my birthday also, sigh, and the fact that better gun laws or better laws all around didn't happen after THAT GUY very very disgusted. Yeah there were somethings done but please. I also believe mental illness played a factor of course, but also just plain freaking evil. I don't care if you were bullied, not all people that are bullied or something happened to end up killing children. Maybe some people just enjoy evil. And some of the blood is on the mother's hands too. I drive past that area every so often and you can just feel an evil energy as you go through the area, maybe subconsciously. Just horrifying.

 

[LSUmiss]

The mother was absolutely key in the case. She all but paved the road to tragedy and rolled a red carpet on it. It's common for parents to struggle with the reality of addressing such drastically real problems with their children. Thankfully most of them stop short of not only blocking access to firearms, but definitely not providing them.

I got sucked into watching a program the other night where the parents of Casey Anthony were interviewed. It was like a horrific car crash I couldn't look away from. The mother is viciously protective of her image of her daughter as a good mother, even in the face of strong evidence that contradicts her beliefs. She still cannot even admit to the fact her daughter frequently took that baby out until all hours, frequently not bringing her home at all overnight on several occasions. When her husband suggested he had witnessed this behavior many times she shouted him down and stood hard on the fact that she was her daughter's mother and only she knew best what really went on. It really explained for me why they didn't raise the roof early on about the little girl's whereabouts and the situation with the smell of death in that car.

I definitely want to tread very lightly with the idea of broadening the government's powers to restrict individual liberty based on assumptions and speculation.

I watched that too. And, again, in my professional experience, parents are almost always the biggest issue whether through their action or inaction. So then what do we do?