DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[Evita_W]

Virtual queue for every single ride is the solution. There is no reason anyone needs to stand for hours in a queue. I feel like everyone has a diagnosis these days. IBS is so common something needed to change.

But then they can't sell Genie+ or individual lightning lanes and make money off of that.

 

[Disturbia]

The article refers to DAS as line skippers. I wouldn’t call the article good on that basis alone.

It’s terms like this that make DAS so open to abuse. We are not line skippers. We are waiting in the lines virtually.

Little things like this - basic as terminology - can have real impact on people’s feelings.

No one points out that DAS users are actually waiting for the duration of the standby wait (exaggerated by 15-30 mins) plus they have to wait in the LL (15-30 mins).

 

[Nikkimouse44]

Allears has a good article about what we know right now and what we don't know

In this article - it say under what is staying the same is the “return to queue”

So maybe the return to queue option they are referring to in the presser released this week is not what we are imagining?

 

[Disturbia]

I’m entirely with you on this: the changes aren’t about the average person with a disability needing accommodations - it’s about the big abusers. Which, despite being a WDW vet of 30 years, I genuinely had no idea was going on. All that I’m learning now is like an “A-HA! Moment”… I normally only ever have one or two friends with me for a ride or two, but last visit happened to happily connect with 4 at the same time, so I asked a GS CM if it was possible for us all to do a ride with my DAS, expecting to be declined and totally okay if that was the case - he sounded a little skeptical at first, then looked at my profile, asked just how many I wanted to add, and laughed a little when I said 2 and said, “that’s no problem at all!” And the whole mood changed. I honestly did not get it at the time, but now I do! He must have been expecting to hear 20 or something.

I agree. After the response from the CM via chat this morning I truly believe they’re targeting the scammers and not people like us who are using DAS as intended.

 

[Evita_W]

So, I just got an email response

Dear Guest, Thank you for your message to the Walt Disney World Resort regarding services for Guests with disabilities. Disney is committed to providing a welcoming, inclusive environment, and accessible experience for all our Guests. All Guests who inquire about accessibility options during this period of transition are receiving this note to share information ahead of your next visit. We would encourage you to first explore our website for Guests with disabilities, which has been updated to showcase a variety of accommodations and services to meet different needs. Additionally, to help you plan your visit, we have developed an Accessibility Planning Guide and Recommendations and a Sensory Experience Guide, which provide pertinent information as well as answers to many Frequently Asked Questions. There are various accommodations available to meet the needs of our Guests, which may be discussed in individualized conversations within 30 days of a planned visit with our Accessibility Services Cast Members. The Disability Access Service (DAS) is one program offered, and it is intended specifically for those guests who, due to a developmental disability like autism or similar, are unable to wait in a conventional queue for an extended period of time. Some Guests enrolled in DAS in the past may be offered alternate accommodations based on the results of their individual conversations. These include Rider Switch, Mobility Services, options for those who may unexpectedly need to leave a queue, and/or other recommendations. Guests who may need accessibility accommodations will be offered an individualized conversation with our team within 30 days of a planned trip (including on the day of your visit, if necessary), to help provide an appropriate match of tools and services. If you are visiting before May 20, 2024: Please visit us at Accessibility Services to initiate a connection with our team. You will be connected with a Cast Member via live video to assist you further. Please note that you will need to have access to a video camera and a microphone. During this discussion, if eligible, you may register in advance for DAS between 2 and 30 days prior to your visit. During this time, you may also request accommodations by visiting a Guest Relations location once you arrive at our theme parks. Our Guest Relations Cast Members will work individually with you to discuss your overall needs to determine which service will be appropriate. Guests will not be asked for medical documentation. Note: If you already have an approved DAS accommodation, it remains valid until your existing expiration. If your visit begins May 20, 2024 or later: Beginning May 20 at the Walt Disney World Resort, there will be an updated process for Accessibility Services conversations. Guests can learn more on our website for Guests with disabilities. In this video discussion, health care professionals may be available, if needed, to help determine appropriate accommodations. Guests will not be asked for medical documentation. Please know we will not determine any Guest’s future eligibility until our processes are updated on May 20. Kindest Regards, Walt Disney World Accessibility Services Team

It doesn't address how those with mobility devices can leave the queue and return. But it sounds like the are planning to offer individualized solutions. Hopefully they actually means they do, but based on past experiences, I think a lot are going to get lost in the fold.

 

[prettypatchesmsu]

I think this one is a good summary so far. https://touringplans.com/blog/das-changes-disney-parks-in-united-states/

 

[Liquidice]

I’ve said it before but why announce this like this and cause all this stress and chaos. They should have it all worked out, all the FAQ on the site, and announced how this will all work. It’s ridiculous this large of a company announces something as important as disability accommodation changes in such a way. Announce all or nothing and give more notice than this.

It has to be driven by something. I suspect Disney Parks leadership is wanting to announce their changes to Genie+ on or around a certain date (my guess it they announce it on or before 5/20/24).

DAS is an inhibitor to being able to announce the changes, therefore Disney leadership pushed down a memo that said, reduce DAS usage by XX% by this date.

The team working disability were then forced to figure out what they could do to reduce DAS usage, which is how we landed on it being limited to only developmental disabilities. I'm sure Disney has data from DAS registrations that says this should reduce the number of DAS users.

That checked the box for leadership's ask to reduce DAS usage and now they're having to quickly come up with an answer on how to support those with non-developmental disabilities.

I can only imagine they announced it this early because starting on 4/20 the will need to start registering people for 5/20. I can't imagine the changes occurring on 5/20 and people also needing to register on that date.

They'll need to start training their staff now for the changes and inevitably if they had not announced it, it would have leaked out as they were training the staff.

I'm speculating - but that seems to make sense to me.

 

[Liquidice]

But then they can't sell Genie+ or individual lightning lanes and make money off of that.

If the standby line became a virtual queue, the Lightning Lane could still be used and at an upcharge.

They could change Genie+ to immediate access to the Lightning Lane for most rides (similar to how Universal Express works) and cap the number of Genie+ they sell to keep the lightning lane experience short enough. Then raise the price of Genie+ such that they continue to get the same or greater revenue from Genie+ that they do today.

 

[Liquidice]

Allears has a good article about what we know right now and what we don't know

This is the first I've read that the DAS Advance passes would still be available based on need.

 

[MediumSizedMermaid]

Does anyone have percentage of people who requested DAS ahead of time vs during trip? Just curious just removing the two pretrip ones, how much of a difference does that alone make.

I don't know percentages but we've literally never been able to get through to the video screening every time we tried. (Just had the page up for hours and hours never getting to the call.) We stopped bothering and we'd always just run over to DHS on our arrival day since their Guest Services isn't past the turnstiles. Since my Dad's needs are physical we never felt like we 'needed' the advance selections so that didn't matter to us.

 

[SueM in MN]

the illegal tour guides were the same reason they gave in changing from gac to das. I know you’ve been around disney long enough to remember that whole scandal that hit the news about the people in wheelchairs who would hire themselves out to groups to give auto front of the line privileges. It’s really these scammers who make it more difficult for everyone else.

The wheelchair tour guides were part of the problem, BUT
a bigger problem actually was that in the beginning, GAC (Guest Assistance Card) had stamps that corresponded with various accommodations. As time went on, word spread on the internet that the 'best' accommodation allowed immediate entry into the Fastpass line (or mostly exit at Disneyland). People were genuinely throwing tantrums in Guest Services to get that stamp.
So, it went from a few people with that stamp to so many people that it was not sustainable. People were also loaning their GAC to others and selling their GACs on eBay as 'never-ending Fastpasses'.

When the Radiator Springs Racers opened at Disneyland, management noticed the attraction was not able to handle the number of Fastpasses they anticipated. When they investigated, they found a small number of guests using DAS were using a large amount of the capacity, by riding and then going right back into the Fastpass line. That was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back. There were no RULES about people using it that way, and many didn't. But, the ones who did were overwhelming the system.

 

[Genie+]

I agree with you there. I actually floated a similar idea earlier in the thread. There are a lot of things Disney would have to do to change its operations such as adding capacity for people no longer standing around waiting in line by adding more shopping, more restaurants, perhaps large entertainment venues that could seat a lot of people (think: opening the Fantasmic theater during the day or putting something in during the day where the Rivers of Light used to show).

Cap the line to around a 30 minute wait in the physical line and everyone else gets called back when its their turn similar to how Tron and Cosmic Rewind work.

It could actually enhance safety as during an evac you'd have less people in line and you would need to offer less recovery passes if a ride went down.

Lightning Lane could still be used but more like Express Pass at Universal, charge a lot more and allow entry into the Lightning Lane whenever someone wanted to. It would ensure revenue from Genie+ doesn't go away, it would just be coming from less guests.

It could potentially work for many current DAS users as well although for situations where it doesn't you could still have a process for a DAS like option that used the lightning lane. In those scenarios it would also benefit the DAS user as the lightning lane wait should be significantly shorter.

Some rides that have a high ride capacity and generally low wait times like the People Mover could still use a normal standby queue instead of virtual queue maybe?

Its not a perfect idea, there are things Disney would need to do to make it all work - but it makes the most sense imho. Maybe long term Disney will eventually do that (probably test it at a smaller International park first).

How about a limit to how many VQ credits come with each daily entrance.

Everybody starts with 60 credits.

A1 - Headliner limit 1VQ/day 20c
B2 - Mid-Tier limit 2VQ/day 15c
C3 - Everything else

Before the full details of Genie+ were shared I thought possibly they’d split park offering into 2 groups. Realistically that is a way line skipping could be functional.

Personally, the most valuable move WDW could make would be easy access to just a few rides. I’m probably not alone in the group of guests who don’t desire to run the whole park in a day. I don’t need alot of attractions to be satisfied; I need not to experience 6+hrs in line to do 4 or 5 rides to be satisfied. I would pay extra on top of the already expensive ticket for that.

The problem with Genie+ is how inconvenient it is to use it at the 3 WDW parks not MK.

I really hope things work out for those needing assistance AND Genie+ is reworked into something more functional to the majority. It is no coincidence WDW popularity grew under FP+. It was assurance that you’d at least be able to do X without too much trouble. Take a 90min line. How acceptable is it when you also had/have a couple ‘easier’ rides, vs, dealing with it after already racking up over 4 hours standing in lines to do 3 or 4 other rides?

WDW wants disabled and non-disabled folks to be more tolerant of what the comapny faces with demand and wait times. In this case though, it takes 3 to tango. They also hold a key to making the park experience better for all. They know what they’re doing adjusting the taps so it always looks like everything is in a constant state of highest demand, putting psychological pressure on guests to purchase upgrades. They want their cake and eat to; exacerbate the problems and expect guests to absorb more of the consequences.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I remember hearing that Disney removed the interactive game in the Space Mountain queue since it made people stop in place and the line would not move. I wonder if that's why Disney is not leaning more into interactive elements in their queues. Didn't Mine Train have more interactive stuff too or did I just make that up?

BTMRR and 7DMT as well as Peter Pan are interactive queues where slow downs in the standby line occur frequently enough IME.

7DMT should still have the interactive elements I believe which are those crystal buckets in one part of the queue and then the turning wheel in the other where if you spin it then on the ceiling you get an effect. I'm pretty sure that's the only big elements I can see but I could be wrong.

In BTMRR we were constantly stuck behind kids who kept stopping to play with the stuff on it. That would have been fine had the line been where you were standing still in place for a few minutes but that wasn't the case and so it just caused clogging up. The kids would get upset if they couldn't play with them (they were not too too young either). It would have been fine had the parents let the kids play but allow others in line to go around them but that was not the case.

For Peter Pan I think it's mostly that one part where you wave/move around in that one part and it creates some effects...but we didn't go on Peter Pan in 2022 so I'm going off 2017 memory there.

I like the interactive features of the queue but it has to be carefully done where it doesn't cause issues be it holding up the line, too much stimulus or create meltdowns themselves when kids aren't able to actually use them.

 

[Disturbia]

Question for some of you (as i've seen this come up a lot in the past few days since the original rumors of the change started circling).

There seem to be a good bit of folks who mention they didn't use DAS before, because Fastpass+ fit their needs with the pre-selections. Should they eliminate the pre-selections from DAS (which it seems to be the case) and install genie+ to a similar form of fastpass+ with the pre-selections. Would you bypass DAS or seeking return to line accommodations that may be implemented with this changes, for the genie+ system if it granted the 3 pre-selects, like you did previously?

The problem is kids with sensory issues can start suddenly acting out or running.

This is not something that is bad parenting, it’s the way their brain is wired.

The people with genuine disabilities like these are NOT riding more than normal kids waiting in lines. Those are the DAS abusers.

 

[smartlabelprint]

So discouraged and disappointed. We have FIVE trips planned (AP holders, p
out of state, and four of them this summer). Airfare nonrefundable and resorts booked.

Now this. We cannot do the parks without DAS (I've posted our story before, but my now 21 year old had a near fatal medical emergency on Splash Mountain in 2021 when DAS wasn't functioning and she had to wait in direct sunlight).

We've had a pretty good experience the last 2 years, after my complainsts about that experience reached some compassionate ears. We've been approached by cast members at the parks many times, who have checked in with her to say "we have something called a DAS...it might be helpful if you need help hooking that up".

So to hear that medical disabilities may not be part of this new DAS is simply ludicrous. Her specialist is the one who told her about DAS, with the firm demand that she could NOT safely visit a theme park without it.

So what to do about our upcoming trips? At the 30 day window, she will be out of the country and won't be back until right before our June visit.

I do like the 120 renewal (for those with AP who qualify) but everything else about this is horrid.

Any suggestions? She's in the queue now hoping to talk to someone but it's been 5 hours already...

what did they say? It sounded like they may be revamping rider swap for such a situation.

I feel like a better way to cut back on abuse would be to require a scan in at the ride to get a DAS return time. Then abusers don’t see as much benefit (ie being able to select the next return time as soon as you scan in at your current ride and counting the walk over as part of your queue time). Because if you scan into RoR for example, that whole experience between pre shows and sorting into ride vehicles can easily take 30 min. Then add a 15 min walk to your next ride and you can immediately scan in at the LL on a ride that has a 60 min standby. I think that is a big motivator for the abusers.

its also how we can use the system with my kids with developmental disabilities. We still do max 6 things a day.

 

[Becky Mouse]

IBS is not a reason not to wait on line though. You can use the bathroom pass and come back.

I have IBS, and people have specifically told me I should get DAS (No, I haven't actually gotten it). People absolutely get DAS for IBS, as well as other medical conditions that can have similar symptoms like ulcerative colitis and Crohn's. The thing is, people with these conditions CAN have a normal period--hours or days or even longer--with no symptoms. My dad has Crohn's, and it can kind of go into remission at times and then flare back up. Of course, some people with Crohn's have had parts of their intestines removed, so their situation can be different.

Anyway, the point is, many people with these conditions can have a few good days (some can have good weeks) with no symptoms at all. Then you can have a flare of symptoms and be running to the bathroom over and over. For me, it comes in waves every few days and can last a couple of hours. It's basically chronic diarrhea.

I've never gotten DAS for it because I know I don't need to skip lines all day every day. And, even on a "bad" day, when I'm dealing with these issues, I can't ride on rides at ALL until my symptoms resolve, whether I have a Lightning Lane or not. That's why, to me, DAS isn't a good accommodation for my condition. Do I need to skip lines and wait virtually for every ride all day every day? No. If I'm having a flare up of symptoms, will it help me to have a Lightning Lane? Again, no. While there can be some exceptions, I'm sure, people with symptoms like mine need to be able to leave a line, possibly be gone for hours, and return later. I'm very happy with the Return to Line accommodation they'll be offering and am looking forward to hearing more details on it. It seems like a much better accommodation for people with needs like mine.

But yes, until now, people with conditions similar to mine have absolutely have gotten DAS. I think it's the most lied about condition, too, because I've heard people tell others to just say they have IBS to be able to get DAS. It makes me mad, personally, because I am a sufferer of IBS-D and haven't gotten DAS for it because I think that would be DAS abuse, yet people who don' really have IBS are lying and saying they do in order to get DAS. It's very frustrating. Anyway, I think the fact that people lie so much about IBS is why Universal was the first to stop offering their line skipping (or "virtual waiting" for those who prefer) accommodation to people with bathroom issues. Disney is now following suit, and bathroom/toilet issues will no longer meet the criteria for DAS. They did before, but won't going forward. I know some people are really unhappy about this and are used to getting DAS for their condition, and they're upset and feeling like something is being taken from them. However, this seems to be the new standard now. As an IBS sufferer who has had to run from lines before, I can still say I think the change is a good thing. I personally think a Return to Line feature is a much better accommodation for bathroom issues.

 

[LSUmiss]

I'm not going to lie. This is really scary. Narrowing DAS to only those with developmental delays will really impact my family's ability to do WDW and DL. We need DAS due to my youngest being medically complex. If we are stuck in a winding line with no way out and he needs airway clearance, we will hold up the whole line. He can be sensitive to heat. Literally everything takes us twice as long as everyone else due to my kiddo's complex needs. I am hoping there is still some form of access accommodations available to us or I fear our safe place to go will no longer feel that way.

And it really doesn’t cut down on abuse! There are many ppl officially diagnosed with a “developmental disability” who do have the ability to wait in line but may abuse the system just the same.

 

[Smugpugmug]

BTMRR and 7DMT as well as Peter Pan are interactive queues where slow downs in the standby line occur frequently enough IME.

7DMT should still have the interactive elements I believe which are those crystal buckets in one part of the queue and then the turning wheel in the other where if you spin it then on the ceiling you get an effect. I'm pretty sure that's the only big elements I can see but I could be wrong.

In BTMRR we were constantly stuck behind kids who kept stopping to play with the stuff on it. That would have been fine had the line been where you were standing still in place for a few minutes but that wasn't the case and so it just caused clogging up. The kids would get upset if they couldn't play with them (they were not too too young either). It would have been fine had the parents let the kids play but allow others in line to go around them but that was not the case.

For Peter Pan I think it's mostly that one part where you wave/move around in that one part and it creates some effects...but we didn't go on Peter Pan in 2022 so I'm going off 2017 memory there.

I like the interactive features of the queue but it has to be carefully done where it doesn't cause issues be it holding up the line, too much stimulus or create meltdowns themselves when kids aren't able to actually use them.

I didn't know Peter Pan had interactive stuff in the queue but I also refuse to wait in the standby line for that ride so that's probably why lol

I think Pooh could also fit in that category too. That line can slow to a crawl when people stop to watch their kids play with the interactive elements and don't move forward.

 

[CarouselofColor]

People absolutely get DAS for IBS, as well as other medical conditions that can have similar symptoms like ulcerative colitis and Crohn's.

I don't think anyone's saying people with IBS aren't getting a DAS, just that with other accommodations such as a return to line pass, there probably isn't a specific need to actually not be in the queue

 

[Philsfan77]

The problem is kids with sensory issues can start suddenly acting out or running and it takes a while to calm them down or catch up to them. They will be standing next to you one minute and the next second they’re in sprint mode full speed no sense of danger (every morning bus, cars and running towards neighbors dogs etc).

This is not something that is bad parenting, it’s the way their brain is wired. They can’t hear the adult when their mind is stuck in the run run run mode. They have issues with regulating and can’t gauge distances so bump into others again and again. We only used 20-30% of the preselect because we were always too late or too early.

The people with genuine disabilities like these are NOT riding more than normal kids waiting in lines. Those are the DAS abusers.

We are talking about 2 separate things. I'm talking/asking about the pretty regular number of posts over the last few days of people who said they used to only use fastpass+ and never bothered with DAS because the pre-selects for their family, were sufficient enough to meet their needs.

I totally understand where you are coming from, but you're not the target my post is for.