Disney Fantasy and How Disney handles cancelling a cruise

Might I also point out that a good many of these supposedly available WDW resort rooms were needed to house the ride out crews for the resorts. I really don't think there were nearly the number of rooms available that some posters assume there were.

Plus, are they taking into consideration the number of rooms that are out of service due to renovations? CSR and POP (at least) have massive renovations going on. CBR lost a village or two. Then you take out the rooms that WDW took out of service for safety... I don't think there were as many as some are attesting either.

And I cannot imagine the nightmare of DCL booking the rooms for people.

Guest Services: We booked you at POP Century.
Guest 1: But we NEVER stay value. We want the Grand Floridian.

Guest Services: We booked you at the Beach Club.
Guest 2: Deluxe isn't in my budget. I can only afford Value.

And so on. The logistics of seeing where there were rooms available and then allocating them in a way that would please the guests make my head hurt. (And it already does as I'm dealing with an abscess tooth. Ugh. The thought of those logistics makes it hurt more.)
 
Assuming about an 85% occupancy rate (school is already in session), that would translate to 3,144 rooms. At 3 to 4 people to a room, that would accommodate 9,432 to 12,576 people. Again, that's not even including DVC rooms (which I would argue they could access if no DVC member is occupying them).

This would be more than enough to handle the 5-6000 people.

This was the math. Key term was "assuming." It also used an inaccurate lodging number, as the "total number of rooms" that started the equation did not account for the 1500-2000 rooms taken out of service recently, including the destruction of 2 villages at CBR, the removal of 1 building at CSR, and the building at CSR that is mid-renovation and unlikely to have been fit for putting up humans on short notice. I believe some of Pop is also in that state of dubious grace (mid-reno).
 
Let's not forget the elephant in the room: concierge guests and services provided to them. The concierge staff would have been busy booking rooms for concierge guests based upon the needs of those guests. This would have tied up phone lines.
 
If you back up, there were assumptions made about occupancy rates that were based on conjecture and didn't also account for the Fort Wilderness Cabins/Campgrounds, Poly Bungalows or Treehouse Villas getting taken out of service.

The numbers there:
  • 60THV
  • 409 FW Cabins
  • 20 Bungalows
  • 799 campsites
So, this takes a healthy chunk out to start.

I did not include Fort Wilderness Cabins in my last count. To make sure, I redid the math. I don't think I included Tree House Villas because they are part of Saratoga Springs (DVC).

Here's my math and my source for room counts (http://wdwnews.com/fact-sheets/2016/06/30/walt-disney-world-resort-hotels-fact-sheet/):

Included (21,688 Rooms)
Contemporary Resort: 655
Grand Floridian: 867
Polynesian: 484
Wilderness Lodge: 727
Pop Century: 2880
Caribbean: 2112
Yacht Club: 621
Beach Club: 576
Boardwalk: 372
Port Orleans - French Quarter: 1008
Port Orleans - Riverside: 2048
Animal Kingdom Lodge: 972
Coronado Springs: 1917
Art of Animation: 1120
All Star Sports: 1920
All Star Movie: 1920
All Star Music: 1489

Excluded:
DVC (that includes the villas portion of a resort, which is DVC)
Fort Wilderness Resort and Campgrounds

I assumed an 85% occupancy rate. To me, this is generous since it is past labor day and in the middle of September (when kids are in school and before Food and Wine Festival). 21,688 x 15% = approx. 3,253 rooms available. At 3-4 people per room, that's 9,759 to 13,012 people that can be served.

Feel free to check my math. I'm certainly not perfect, but that's what's out on the web.
 


Plus, are they taking into consideration the number of rooms that are out of service due to renovations? CSR and POP (at least) have massive renovations going on. CBR lost a village or two. Then you take out the rooms that WDW took out of service for safety... I don't think there were as many as some are attesting either.

And I cannot imagine the nightmare of DCL booking the rooms for people.

Guest Services: We booked you at POP Century.
Guest 1: But we NEVER stay value. We want the Grand Floridian.

Guest Services: We booked you at the Beach Club.
Guest 2: Deluxe isn't in my budget. I can only afford Value.

And so on. The logistics of seeing where there were rooms available and then allocating them in a way that would please the guests make my head hurt. (And it already does as I'm dealing with an abscess tooth. Ugh. The thought of those logistics makes it hurt more.)

That's why you can go with a matching system (list your top 3 or 4 preferences). Or, just hold the rooms for booking exclusively to DCL for a period of time, and let people get free phone/wifi to book. I also didn't take into account any DVC rooms, or the fact that some people would cancel reservations with an impending hurricane coming. Yes, Disney has access to sell those rooms that are vacant. If you don't believe me, you can look online and try to book a DVC property with cash. You can.
 
That's why you can go with a matching system (list your top 3 or 4 preferences). Or, just hold the rooms for booking exclusively to DCL for a period of time, and let people get free phone/wifi to book. I also didn't take into account any DVC rooms, or the fact that some people would cancel reservations with an impending hurricane coming. Yes, Disney has access to sell those rooms that are vacant. If you don't believe me, you can look online and try to book a DVC property with cash. You can.
That's what I would think. Just have WDW hold some rooms and the DCL guests can decide if they want to book them or not. At least you are giving them the option. I think a lot of people make this way more complicated than it really is.
 
I did not include Fort Wilderness Cabins in my last count. To make sure, I redid the math. I don't think I included Tree House Villas because they are part of Saratoga Springs (DVC).

Here's my math and my source for room counts (http://wdwnews.com/fact-sheets/2016/06/30/walt-disney-world-resort-hotels-fact-sheet/):

Included (21,688 Rooms)
Contemporary Resort: 655
Grand Floridian: 867
Polynesian: 484
Wilderness Lodge: 727
Pop Century: 2880
Caribbean: 2112
Yacht Club: 621
Beach Club: 576
Boardwalk: 372
Port Orleans - French Quarter: 1008
Port Orleans - Riverside: 2048
Animal Kingdom Lodge: 972
Coronado Springs: 1917
Art of Animation: 1120
All Star Sports: 1920
All Star Movie: 1920
All Star Music: 1489

Excluded:
DVC (that includes the villas portion of a resort, which is DVC)
Fort Wilderness Resort and Campgrounds

I assumed an 85% occupancy rate. To me, this is generous since it is past labor day and in the middle of September (when kids are in school and before Food and Wine Festival). 21,688 x 15% = approx. 3,253 rooms available. At 3-4 people per room, that's 9,759 to 13,012 people that can be served.

Feel free to check my math. I'm certainly not perfect, but that's what's out on the web.
But you've made the assumption of 85%. On what are you basing this?
 


I'm not sure I understand why Disney needed to block off any rooms. As I described, when I booked online on Wednesday morning (well after the announcement on Tuesday evening) I had my choice of availability ranging from Value to Deluxe/DVC.
 
Yes, the point being YOU made the reservation, didn't rely on DCL to do it for you.
It legitimately never occurred to me that anyone other than me would make arrangements for my family (not even my husband, hahaha)
As I pointed out previously, I'm not a DCL apologist and think there were a couple of areas of opportunity for improvement, but I don't really understand this thread.
 
It legitimately never occurred to me that anyone other than me would make arrangements for my family (not even my husband, hahaha)
As I pointed out previously, I'm not a DCL apologist and think there were a couple of areas of opportunity for improvement, but I don't really understand this thread.
Well, it seems that some people travel fairly infrequently. And, when issues crop up, like everything not going as planned, they have no resources to cope with them.

The more you travel, you get better at accepting sudden changes.

I agree, there's always room for improvement in any bad situation. From any cruise line.
 
This was the math. Key term was "assuming." It also used an inaccurate lodging number, as the "total number of rooms" that started the equation did not account for the 1500-2000 rooms taken out of service recently, including the destruction of 2 villages at CBR, the removal of 1 building at CSR, and the building at CSR that is mid-renovation and unlikely to have been fit for putting up humans on short notice. I believe some of Pop is also in that state of dubious grace (mid-reno).

Ok, Caribbean Beach Resort had 562 rooms removed (http://**************.net/2017/05/23/perspectives-on-the-caribbean-beach-construction/). For Coronado Springs Resort, I will estimate another 200 rooms unavailable. So 762 rooms unavailable. If you take it off the 21,688 rooms, that would leave 20,926 potential rooms. At an 85% occupancy rate, that's 3,139 rooms available. At 3-4 people per room that would accomodate between 9,417 people and 12,556 people.

Even in the worse case scenario, if we liberally take it straight off the bottom line of rooms available, (e.g., 3,253 - 762), That will leave 2,491 rooms. At 3-4 people per room that would still accommodate between 7,473 people and 9,964 people. This is still well beyond the 5 - 6,000 people that would need to be accomodated.

Yes, 85% occupancy rate is an assumption. However, I believe it is a decent assumption given the time of the season. For all of 2016, Disney had an 89% hotel occupancy rate. It's in their annual report (their fiscal year ends in September/beginning of October). In 2015, it was 87%. In 2014, it was 83%. Middle of September, after labor day, and before Food and Wine is typically slower than the summer.

That's also not even taking into account cancellations from people (due to the storm), or even DVC rooms.
 
I do think some people cruise because it is a lower-thought vacation. There are semi-curated excursions at each port, with an air of safety. The food is relatively familiar and safe, versus dealing with local foods in exotic locales. You get off a plane, onto a bus, transfer to a boat, and it's all very straightforward.

A hurricane blows all that right up.

That said, never treat any large company like a monolith. Don't try to return your Sam's Club purchase to Wal-Mart. Don't assume Disney Cruises work nicely with Disney Resorts. Don't assume anything in Disney IT works at all.
 
Well, it seems that some people travel fairly infrequently. And, when issues crop up, like everything not going as planned, they have no resources to cope with them.

The more you travel, you get better at accepting sudden changes.

I agree, there's always room for improvement in any bad situation. From any cruise line.
That's a pretty insulting and condesending statement. Some of have traveled the world are pretty self sufficient, and still expect good customer service.
 
But you've made the assumption of 85%. On what are you basing this?

A couple of factors:

1.) The annual occupancy rate for Domestic Disney Hotels. 89% for the whole year in 2016. 87% for the whole year in 2015. 83% for the whole year in 2014.
2.) The time of the year. This was past labor day, but before Food and Wine festival. Typically, a bit of a lull in time for Disney.

I didn't take into account potential occupancy rate changes for 2017 versus 2016. However, for the quarter ending July 1, 2017 (Q3), the occupancy rate was 88% in 2017 when it was 90% in 2016. For Q2 (January to April 1, 2017) was 88% in 2017, when it was 88% in 2016. Furthermore, the occupancy rate for the quarter Q1 (October to December 31, 2016) was 91%, when the occupancy rate the previous year, for the quarter ending January 2, 2016 was 92%. I just assumed that 2017 was going to be relatively close to 2016 (even if it's shaping up to be a little slower).

However, let's look at the break down for 2016 numbers. Overall occupancy rate for the year was 89%. To make that number, Disney had 92% Q1 (Oct - Dec) + 88% for Q2 (Jan - Mar) + 90% for Q3 (Ap -Jul) for 3 Quarters. That leaves 1 quarter (Q4 - quarter ending September/early October 2016). In order to average out at 89% occupancy for the year, Q4 would have to be approximately 86%.

Q4 includes July, August, and September. My guess is that July would be pretty busy, August would be a little bit slower, and the back end of September would be pretty busy. So for 2016, this averaged out to be an 86%. This may actually support a lower occupancy rate than 85% in the particular period of September.
 
That's a pretty insulting and condesending statement. Some of have traveled the world are pretty self sufficient, and still expect good customer service.
Sorry if you felt that was insulting and condescending. I certainly didn't mean it that way. It's just my take on what seems to have happened.

I don't understand why it's "bad customer service" if the CMs onboard are unable to assist people with plans. Certainly only a few onboard are trained to do such things. So, of course, if someone had to wait for one of the, say, 20 CMs trained to do that sort of work, that would be bad customer service, too?

And why should DCL eat the cost of free wifi/phone service? I guess that's bad customer service, also?
 
That's a pretty insulting and condesending statement. Some of have traveled the world are pretty self sufficient, and still expect good customer service.

I don't see a cruise line helping you with forward plans, whether during a hurricane or not, as being a service they can or should provide.

The only thing I think DCL should have done was provide free wifi, so people could have firmed up their contingency plans.

I do think that travelers that left their home with the knowledge that there was a hurricane that could, or would most likely, impact their cruise or travel, one way or the other, and did not make ANY contigency plans other than 'DCL will take care of us', are not very wise travelers.
 
Those numbers for CBR and CSR are wrong, at this point.

And the 85% number is something you completely made up.

Any number I give you would not be 100% accurate. However, I can make an educated guess based on information available to me. What evidence do you have that my numbers are inaccurate? Please see my previous post (#95) on the methodology of the percentage.

If anything, my numbers are probably overly generous. 85% may actually be higher.
 
Availability for September has been dire for months, if you review queries over on the Resorts board. F&W started a month earlier this year.

In general, low season tends to still focus on filling rooms on campus and moving demand from off-site lodging on-site, including conventions.

And you never accounted for evacuees from downstate getting the jump on reservations, or rooms for the RRest de Out crews.
 

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