Does David's tell you if the renter cancels?

[tallguy001]

Has anyone seen an update email to OWNERS? I am an owner with a rental checking in on April 2nd. I'm sitting tight as requested, but as time goes by, I'm getting a little anxious. I know David's doesn't want us to contact renters, even though we have their contact information in the reservation, and I am sitting on my hands, waiting.

This is very unfair on David’s part. I understand they are dealing with closures up to March 31, but it is clear that this will be extended. Giving owners and renters little to no time to react is incredibly unfair.

 

[Krandor]

This is very unfair on David’s part. I understand they are dealing with closures up to March 31, but it is clear that this will be extended. Giving owners and renters little to no time to react is incredibly unfair.

That is more on disney for waiting so close too March 31 to announce an extension. A lot of people are in a holding pattern waiting on the announcement.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

The recent reviews on David’s Facebook page are full of upset renters, for anyone wanting to get an idea of the scope of this issue (considering they are probably a small portion of everyone effected).

 

[TheWheel]

You cannot take that line out of context.The exact text of the clause is

Should accommodations not be available on date of arrival due to an action or omission by the Member, including but not limited to negligence on the part of the Member and after communication with the Intermediary, suitable comparable accommodations for the same dates cannot be secured by the Member, the Renter will be due a refund limited to the amount paid which is $XXXX.XX US Dollars.​

One could argue that there was no “action or omission” on the part of the owner.

FWIW, I wouldn’t view a credit as an acceptable offer if I had my renter’s hat on, either. And if I’m wearing my owner’s hat, I would be wary of renting my points out thru David’s in the future knowing that I might get only a fraction of what he agreed to pay me if his pyramid scheme collapsed. I wouldn’t feel confident in a rob-Peter-to-pay-Paul arrangement from either perspective.

One could argue but I don't believe credit card companies will. It's not out of context at all, the agent of the deeded timeshare owner closed the resort. A suitable comparable option is not available for those dates. Therefore a refund is due.

 

[fsjking]

You cannot take that line out of context.The exact text of the clause is

Should accommodations not be available on date of arrival due to an action or omission by the Member, including but not limited to negligence on the part of the Member and after communication with the Intermediary, suitable comparable accommodations for the same dates cannot be secured by the Member, the Renter will be due a refund limited to the amount paid which is $XXXX.XX US Dollars.​

One could argue that there was no “action or omission” on the part of the owner.

FWIW, I wouldn’t view a credit as an acceptable offer if I had my renter’s hat on, either. And if I’m wearing my owner’s hat, I would be wary of renting my points out thru David’s in the future knowing that I might get only a fraction of what he agreed to pay me if his pyramid scheme collapsed. I wouldn’t feel confident in a rob-Peter-to-pay-Paul arrangement from either perspective.

Devil's advocate: If you failed to tell the renter that the resort would be or could be closed, that could be considered an omission. It's not limited to negligence per the terms of the clause.

I just think that in a court of law, the business owners(both the owner and David's) will lose almost every time with the way things are worded.

 

[Van Houten]

So, no change to banking rules, and a vague statement that they are "evaluating" options for people at the end of their use year. This contradicts your earlier statement that all points are going back to owners. Please don't fan the flames or attempt to further your arguments by stating completely erroneous information.

For any reservations which fell into closure period, the points were returned to the owners, and returned to the original use year, if borrowed.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

The contract states that the non refundable payment is for a reservation using owners points at _____ resort for ______ dates (paraphrasing). Without that being fulfilled when the resorts are closed, isnt that the relevant part of the renters contract, not the refund if x, y, or z portion?

 

[tallguy001]

That is more on disney for waiting so close too March 31 to announce an extension. A lot of people are in a holding pattern waiting on the announcement.
[/QUOT

The contract states that the non refundable payment is for a reservation using owners points at _____ resort for ______ dates (paraphrasing). Without that being fulfilled when the resorts are closed, isnt that the relevant part of the renters contract, not the refund if x, y, or z portion?

This is correct. You can stop reading there.

 

[Marionnette]

Devil's advocate: If you failed to tell the renter that the resort would be or could be closed, that could be considered an omission. It's not limited to negligence per the terms of the clause.

I just think that in a court of law, the business owners(both the owner and David's) will lose almost every time with the way things are worded.

Given that owner and renter never communicate with each other, it would fall on the intermediary to make that possibility clear to the renters. It cannot be an omission on the part of the owner when they did not draft the agreement.

 

[Sandisw]

For any reservations which fell into closure period, the points were returned to the owners, and returned to the original use year, if borrowed.

Correct. There is not one owner whose points were not returned to the account when reservations were canceled.

So, owners have not lost any points, Now, there are going to be owners who lose the use of those points, but only because they took the risk and booked them during a time that left no options for further use if a resort closed,

When you travel on banked points in the last month they are good, you risk them, If you travel on current UY points after banking window, you risk them.

We keep talking about renters not expecting refunds because the contract says that. owners losing points because the resort closed during the planned use is exactly the same...it’s what the contract says.

 

[Van Houten]

I don't see how offering a credit would help with CC disputes other than some renters agreeing to the credit rather than pursuing with a charge back. The other thing is that if David's gives a credit but then raises their rental prices per point you will need to send additional $ to secure an the same reservation.

For non-CC transactions, this might provide a good alternative - but my bet is, David's would need most owners to accept this future credit in order to remain solvent.

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

How much in legal fees would an average out of town renter have to spend to recoup their monies? And who would they actually sue? I'm assuming David's...who would then have to sue the owner. It seems to me that unless you had a week-long GV rental most amounts are too low to actually make suing financially viable.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

How much in legal fees would an average out of town renter have to spend to recoup their monies? And who would they actually sue? I'm assuming David's...who would then have to sue the owner. It seems to me that unless you had a week-long GV rental most amounts are too low to actually make suing financially viable.

CC disputes are probably more likely.

 

[CarolMN]

The exact text of the clause is

Should accommodations not be available on date of arrival due to an action or omission by the Member, including but not limited to negligence on the part of the Member and after communication with the Intermediary, suitable comparable accommodations for the same dates cannot be secured by the Member, the Renter will be due a refund limited to the amount paid which is $XXXX.XX US Dollars.​

One could argue that the closure of the resort by the Member's agent (DVCMC) is an action by the Member. DVCMC is the owner's agent and by law, an owner is responsible for her/his agent's actions.

I am not a lawyer and would be interested to see what the lawyers among us say. There is a lot of information about agent law all over the internet.

 

[Van Houten]

One could argue that the closure of the resort by the Member's agent (DVCMC) is an action by the Member. DVCMC is the owner's agent and by law, the owner would be responsible for the agent's actions.

We don't know the actual legal details on how this closure was enacted. It is likely that DVCMC does not have the legal rights to shut down the property. However, according to Florida statute 718.1265, the Condominium Association board does. And that would put the responsibility directly on the association itself.

 

[GoingSince1990]

DVCMC is the owner's agent and by law, an owner is responsible for her/his agent's actions.

I am not a lawyer and would be interested to see what the lawyers among us say. There is a lot of information about agent law all over the internet.

Based upon this theory, if DVCMC failed to properly maintain the sprinkler systems (for example) in one of the DVC buildings, and people were killed in a fire because of this, the victims' relatives could go after the DVC points owners in court. I'm not a lawyer either, but I can't help feeling that the only thing less likely than someone spending vast amounts in legal fees to sue a bunch of predominantly middle-class DVC points owners for at most a few thousand dollars each, and with highly uncertain prospects of recovering anything, would be a judge holding those "average Joe" DVC points owners responsible for a decision taken by a huge corporation that they had no control over.

 

[Yinn]

Has anyone seen an update email to OWNERS? I am an owner with a rental checking in on April 2nd. I'm sitting tight as requested, but as time goes by, I'm getting a little anxious. I know David's doesn't want us to contact renters, even though we have their contact information in the reservation, and I am sitting on my hands, waiting.

You’ll be fine. April 2nd is a whopping 7 days away. I’m sure this whole Coronavirus thing will be sorted out this weekend and Disney will no longer be closed after March 31.

I mean, they wouldn’t wait until the last minute to tell us otherwise so we would have definitely heard by now if they were closed beyond that. Imagine the horrible limbo otherwise.

I mean if I was a renter for April 2nd I’d be thinking..Do I cancel the flight? Are we even allowed to go? What if they’re open? What if they’re closed? Well I can’t cancel, I’d lose my money. I guess I’ll hold on to it and hope that Disney actually closes. That might be my best bet to get my money back.

It would drive me a little nuts and I refuse to believe Disney will do that to us. So April 1st. Coronavirus is cured. Travel ban lifted. Resorts open. Park is open. Stock market is fully recovered. I have the faith.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

You’ll be fine. April 2nd is a whopping 7 days away. I’m sure this whole Coronavirus thing will be sorted out this weekend and Disney will no longer be closed after March 31.

I mean, they wouldn’t wait until the last minute to tell us otherwise so we would have definitely heard by now if they were closed beyond that. Imagine the horrible limbo otherwise.

I mean if I was a renter for April 2nd I’d be thinking..Do I cancel the flight? Are we even allowed to go? What if they’re open? What if they’re closed? Well I can’t cancel, I’d lose my money. I guess I’ll hold on to it and hope that Disney actually closes. That might be my best bet to get my money back.

It would drive me a little nuts and I refuse to believe Disney will do that to us. So April 1st. Coronavirus is cured. Travel ban lifted. Resorts open. Park is open. Stock market is fully recovered. I have the faith.

Lol April 1st certainly seems like an appropriate date for a cure to appear.

 

[Krandor]

How much in legal fees would an average out of town renter have to spend to recoup their monies? And who would they actually sue? I'm assuming David's...who would then have to sue the owner. It seems to me that unless you had a week-long GV rental most amounts are too low to actually make suing financially viable.

You could just go to small claims court which normally costs under $100 to file and I think the suit would have to be against David's since that is where the primary agreement was with.

I don't see David's suing the members. While they legally might be able to (though has discussed in this thread it isn't cut and dried how it would work out) it would also kill their business to do so.

 

[Marionnette]

You could just go to small claims court which normally costs under $100 to file and I think the suit would have to be against David's since that is where the primary agreement was with.

I don't see David's suing the members. While they legally might be able to (though has discussed in this thread it isn't cut and dried how it would work out) it would also kill their business to do so.

David’s is located in Canada. Can you sue a Canadian business in US small claims court?