DVC was Sears but it's become Saks . . . in case you wonder why you're feeling whiplash

Status
Not open for further replies.
DVC is like buying a new car. The maintenance starts off low and slowly goes up over time. The car starts off good, but it slowly gets less good. But to buy another new one will cost you more than when you bought the first one.

The alternative is to rent a car, where it’s always pretty new. But you have a limited selection. And you have no idea how much rental costs will go up.

If you rent a lot, it might make sense to own. If you don’t, then it’s better to rent.

Both options leave less money in your pocket. And neither generates cash flow.
LOL, I love the analogy ... but I need a car to get to the rental car lot! {grin}
Rental vehicles do offer variety! Little car one week; big sedan the next ... and maybe a truck for the weekend. Something for everyone.
 
Indeed the accounting can be done in many ways, and one of those ways is to justify your position.
Regardless, if you have enough disposable money for Disney to *somehow* target you, than at least if it were me, my first thing to do with that disposable money is move out.
If I was truly helping my grandmother with that money, it would no longer be disposable income.

It sounds like she's helping care for her grandmother with giving her time, rather than financially. With a sick family member, the more help the better. My mother in law recently passed away, and our 21 yr old was of great help in stepping in at various times to help out.
 
I might be that "target audience" Disney is looking at: younger with more relative disposable income (I am living with family while I pay off school loans).
I’m going to agree with you that you might be the target audience, but for a different reason: you are someone who buys a Disney timeshare and views it as a monthly utility bill as opposed to a large outlay of capital or a large financial commitment that diverts funds from other areas of financial need.

This is no judgement on your financial choices (I’m essentially doing the same: paid cash for contracts, but still carrying a mortgage), it’s just a reminder of how Financing revenue makes Disney more willing to change their product offering in order to push more people to buy direct, and likely finance.
 
It sounds like she's helping care for her grandmother with giving her time, rather than financially. With a sick family member, the more help the better. My mother in law recently passed away, and our 21 yr old was of great help in stepping in at various times to help out.
“Massive student loan bubbles”
 


Do you have a “massive student loan bubble”?
I’m no advocate of taking a leveraged position to own a timeshare, but acebatonfan’s use of the term seems to be alluding to the state of the larger economy where an entire generation went from cap and gown straight into a Great Recession and the crippled job market that it left in its wake.

No one has “a massive student loan bubble.” It just exists.

Hard to pin what could arguably be viewed as an institutionally created financial crisis on any one individual‘s financial choices.
 


I’m no advocate of taking a leveraged position to own a timeshare, but acebatonfan’s use of the term seems to be alluding to the state of the larger economy where an entire generation went from cap and gown straight into a Great Recession and the crippled job market that it left in its wake.

No one has “a massive student loan bubble.” It just exists.

Hard to pin what could arguably be viewed as an institutionally created financial crisis on any one individual‘s financial choices.

“Institutionally created crisis?” No free will on the part of people who decided to take out those loans? No one forces people to finance a dvc purchase. And no one forces people to finance an education. People exercise free will in all kinds of ways. I know many people who chose state schools, lived at home and worked through school so that they would not go into debt for an education. I also know people who joined the military to pay for their education. I know people who took classes at inexpensive community colleges for 2 years and then transferred to a 4 year college to afford their education. And I know people who worked their butts off in high school and found scholarships and took AP classes and got out in 3 years. People need to take responsibility for their decisions. But, even so, there are income sensitive programs for people who struggle with their decision to take out loans. If acebatonfan wants to take out a loan for dvc or for school or for a car or mortgage, that’s a personal decision not an institutional one. If acebatonfan wants to live with relatives to be able to pay off student loans more easily and also be able to take out another loan to purchase dvc, that’s also a personal decision. I hope acebatonfan sees that and reconsiders the term “massive student loan bubble.” I understand that a lot of young people do not have a lot of guidance and realize after the fact that they wish they had not made the decision to take out loans. I was in that situation, so I do empathize. But the worst thing you can do in that situation is to act like the individual is a victim of some kind. Empower them instead.
 
OKW was the original and naturally was offered at a much lower price back then than new resorts are sold for today. So maybe at the price point they were dealing with, they made them as luxurious as possible while still allowing them to make the profit desired. The new resorts go for much higher prices. So if newer resorts are more luxurious, as some here are claiming, it might be due to the increased revenue they receive, due to pricing, smaller room sizes and higher reservation points.

It will be interesting to see what is done with OKW after current ownership expires. Will it just be resold at a higher price? Will the pricing be the same as that of other resorts or will park proximity still make a difference? Will changes be made, such as reducing the size of units, adding more luxurious features some say are currently lacking, or even building something like a Skyliner Route?
I'm thinking there will be more "updates" done, more ammenities added/reworked and absolutely sold for more $$per point. Even as a resale now thru DVC it's way, WAY more than it was... and that's without any updates and a shorter contract time.
 
“Institutionally created crisis?” No free will on the part of people who decided to take out those loans? No one forces people to finance a dvc purchase. And no one forces people to finance an education. People exercise free will in all kinds of ways. I know many people who chose state schools, lived at home and worked through school so that they would not go into debt for an education. I also know people who joined the military to pay for their education. I know people who took classes at inexpensive community colleges for 2 years and then transferred to a 4 year college to afford their education. And I know people who worked their butts off in high school and found scholarships and took AP classes and got out in 3 years. People need to take responsibility for their decisions. But, even so, there are income sensitive programs for people who struggle with their decision to take out loans. If acebatonfan wants to take out a loan for dvc or for school or for a car or mortgage, that’s a personal decision not an institutional one. If acebatonfan wants to live with relatives to be able to pay off student loans more easily and also be able to take out another loan to purchase dvc, that’s also a personal decision. I hope acebatonfan sees that and reconsiders the term “massive student loan bubble.” I understand that a lot of young people do not have a lot of guidance and realize after the fact that they wish they had not made the decision to take out loans. I was in that situation, so I do empathize. But the worst thing you can do in that situation is to act like the individual is a victim of some kind. Empower them instead.
You seem to conflate the acknowledgment of institutional systems that orchestrated the student loan crisis with a shirking of individual accountability. Personal irresponsibility and corporate malfeasance/greed are not mutually exclusive. Recent history proves they coexist perfectly in a free market.

You can celebrate free will, congratulate yourself for your great life choices, and place nationwide financially calamities squarely at the feet of those who chose differently than you did, but giving institutions, like Navient, that willfully and knowingly overcharged active Service Members on their student loans to increase profits, a free pass is not empowering those who chose to take out student loans. It's not encouraging people to take responsibility for their decisions. What it is doing is perpetuating a false narrative where you enable institutions to continue putting profits above all else.

No matter how you want to frame it, a "massive student loan bubble" exists. Pretending borrowers are solely to blame won't make that go away, but what it will do is keep your head in the sand long enough to let another warm financial crisis wash over you.
 
So we just got back from our 2 week Disney trip a few weeks ago and we stayed at our home resort, VGF. For a few years we had scaled back our points and sold many off in favor of having a home in Orlando instead that we could come and go as we wanted without needing to plan so far out in advance. After the few hurricanes Orlando has been in line for over the last few years, we decided to close up the house and focus on using DVC more.

On this trip, we visited the RIV and saw our guide that had an office there to discuss adding more points back into our portfolio and maybe even buy RIV. We really like VGF with the upgraded amenities and quality along with its small, less crowded, footprint. We ate at Topolinos a couple of times and at the quick service there. Both are very good and we like them. We of course checked out the rooms with our guide a full disclosure on the RIV before we decided where to buy. He is very good not to pressure us into any decision and even though direct points from VGF were more expensive, that was what we were leaning towards.

After the tour, we were just about ready to buy RIV and just a few more VGF points. I decided I wanted to research more about the restrictions and what people’s opinions were about the negatives and potential positives so I decided to wait for a day. During that time, I took a more critical look at RIV and realized that there were a lot of things that bothered me.

On the surface, it looks nice. However, as you look at the quality if the materials - cheap. Appliances are the same cheap ones used in most other DVC properties, the carpet is very cheap even in the public areas and is already wearing out. The lobby is extremely small for that size of property and very crowded most of the times we were there. The staircase in the lobby is a joke and can’t support many people at a time. The hallways were very narrow and just to get to Topolinos you have to go down some maze of narrow hallways to find the elevator. Pair this up with the quality issues they have had with the Murphy bed and the high maintenance costs. I really think they cut a lot of corners with quality and make it look nice but will wear out quickly.

I think it is interesting how the impression is that RIV is a “luxury” resort. I don’t feel like it is. VGF is a much higher end resort and what I would consider the top of what Disney offers with the Four Seasons Orlando being a luxury resort for off property. The fit and finish of both of these resorts is much higher quality.

In the end, we added only VGF points direct, paid the extra price, didn’t get the incentives, and have a shorter lifespan on the points. I believe the VGF will hold up better in the long run, resales will be stronger, and is in a better location overall. I really felt more comfortable at VGF and it felt more like a luxury home vs a cheap high rise apartment building which is what the RIV felt like to me.
 
You seem to conflate the acknowledgment of institutional systems that orchestrated the student loan crisis with a shirking of individual accountability. Personal irresponsibility and corporate malfeasance/greed are not mutually exclusive. Recent history proves they coexist perfectly in a free market.

You can celebrate free will, congratulate yourself for your great life choices, and place nationwide financially calamities squarely at the feet of those who chose differently than you did, but giving institutions, like Navient, that willfully and knowingly overcharged active Service Members on their student loans to increase profits, a free pass is not empowering those who chose to take out student loans. It's not encouraging people to take responsibility for their decisions. What it is doing is perpetuating a false narrative where you enable institutions to continue putting profits above all else.

No matter how you want to frame it, a "massive student loan bubble" exists. Pretending borrowers are solely to blame won't make that go away, but what it will do is keep your head in the sand long enough to let another warm financial crisis wash over you.

Actually, people taking out student loans is not a “massive student loan bubble” anymore than people taking out car loans is a massive car loan bubble. Individuals decide what has value to them, for what they may be willing to go into debt— and for what they may not be willing to go into debt. Citing one example where one company (Navient) may have overcharged individuals is not an “institutional crisis.” Attacking me personally by telling me my “head is in the sand” because I have a different opinion than you only reveals a flimsy argument on your part. Encouraging people to take personal responsibility for their decisions is the first step towards individual freedom.
 
With each president and SVP change the business unit for DVD/DVC, ABD, DCL and golden oak makes changes trying to out do the executive team that they replaced. Disney is in the show business, new resorts will always look and be kept up better than the older resorts. DVCMC coulds refresh the older resorts and make them as nice as new but they don't because they want people to buy the latest resort that generates the most revenue.

:earsboy: Bill

 
Actually, people taking out student loans is not a “massive student loan bubble” anymore than people taking out car loans is a massive car loan bubble. Individuals decide what has value to them, for what they may be willing to go into debt— and for what they may not be willing to go into debt. Citing one example where one company (Navient) may have overcharged individuals is not an “institutional crisis.” Attacking me personally by telling me my “head is in the sand” because I have a different opinion than you only reveals a flimsy argument on your part. Encouraging people to take personal responsibility for their decisions is the first step towards individual freedom.
I see the ballooning student loan crisis as follows:

X+Y=Z

X = poor individual financial choices
Y = profit-driven predatory lending
Z = the resulting student loan financial crisis

I think we can all agree that avoiding Z is in the best interest of the financial health of our nation. We saw Z in full effect in 2008.

Where we diverge is your seeming refusal to acknowledge that Z even exists; that there is no student loan crisis despite mounting evidence to the contrary.

- $1.6T in student loan debt (exceeds auto loans and credit card debt combined)
- Projected to grow to $3T over the next decade
- 40% of student loans are projected to be in default by 2023
- Student loan debt affects other areas of the economy; delaying children, car purchases, home purchases, consumer spending, etc.; all things that contribute to a healthy economy

Your refusal to acknowledge there is even the existence of a mounting student loan crisis, and instead treating something that will effect our entire economy as a "personal choice" is puzzling.

I agree with you 100% that there needs to be a concerted effort to educate borrowers and eliminate X. Without X there would be no Z. If every last borrower in this country were educated and took personal responsibility in identifying the pitfalls of student loans, there would be no financial crisis.

But the crisis exists. Wishing it away, or framing it as "individual" choice doesn't make it go away. Acknowledging that a system exists that led this situation might avoid the next Z.

You seem to also refuse acknowledging that Y exists, or that corporate malfeasance/greed that led to the financial crisis is real.

There are 27 states in court against Navient for its predatory lending practices. The discovery process continues to unearth more and more internal communications that demonstrate a clear and concerted effort to make bad loans that lenders know will result in default. The guarantee of those loans by the federal government removes any risk by the lender and places the full burden on you and me as tax payers.

Internal communications also demonstrate a practice of Navient/Sallie Mae colluding with schools to increase the applicant pool. Schools benefit as it allows them to continue to raise tuition costs, with students paying for that tuition with federally guaranteed money. Loan representatives posed as financial aid office employees in colleges. (By the way, Navient isn't just "one company" Navient constitutes over 25% of loans serviced). Lenders no longer had any skin in the game and profits just continue rising.

If this sounds familiar, it's because it's straight out of the mortgage lending playbook that led to the financial crisis. Sub-prime loans, repackaged-loans derivatives, huge corporate profits against insulated risks, and yes, uneducated borrowers making poor choices (or educated borrowers making greedy choices in the case of the mortgage crisis).

X + Y = Z

I worked two jobs after college including a lowly job bagging groceries at night after my 40-hour job to pay off my student loans. At age 20 the realities of compounding interest scared the hell out of me. But regardless of whatever responsible choice I make, the student debt crisis will cost me as a tax payer. That's the sad reality.

There is plenty of blame to go around, but you seem to be ignoring all of that and focusing only on X. When the crisis comes to roost, you'll change your position instead to X = Z.

Failure to acknowledging that Y plays a part, dooms us to repeat Z. Refusing to believe that Y even exists is nothing other than keeping your head in the sand.

But don't take my word for it. Given you're a disciple of Dave Ramsey, you may find the following of interest:

https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/student-loan-crisishttps://www.daveramsey.com/blog/sallie-mae-is-not-your-friendhttps://www.daveramsey.com/askdave/debt/student-loan-crisis
 
Please don't close this thread. While my posts were off topic (I will refrain from continuing that discussion), debating the merits of the notion the OP had that Riviera represents a change in Disney perspective on target demographic and how they will treat their timeshare in the future, has absolute value to the larger community.
 
Sorry folks. This thread has entered into a direction that it should not. We are closing it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!




Latest posts






Top