Fastpasses - Free or Paid? What is your opinion?

[LSUmiss]

And you can do this now if you stay club level.

Right & I would, but we eat in the parks a lot so club level offers us nothing except the fast pass perk. I’m willing to pay for the FPs but not the extra for the room.

 

[LSUmiss]

I really don't know what the answer is to this. I know some people are saying that choosing your FP+ options months in advance is stressful, but personally, the planning part of traveling to WDW is part of the fun for me. My sister and I haven't really had any issues with FP+, but I will agree with @anorman that having to plan a lot totally sucks all spontaneity out of your trip. Also, if Disney began charging for them, then everyone would just end up buying them, I think. No one is going to spend thousands of dollars on a trip to just stand in line all day and get on 3 rides. I think in person Fp+ might have been the better system. Why did they start offering them so far out in advance, anyway?

Think it depends on how much it is. I don’t think the old system could keep up with the current flood of ppl now. I think the only way to gatekeep is extra paid experiences. I’m with you, though. I like the planning. What I don’t like is that it’s not very flexible when you need to make a change.

 

[Future_WorldPhonencian]

FP+ definitely isnt a perfect system, but disney has definitely done a lot to close loopholes and get rid of ways to game the system. I cant see them drastically changing it with the amount of $$$ they have poured into it. More and more people are finally using it which is part of the reason there are crashes and hang ups... They need to keep improving it, adding servers and adding ride capacity... the brand new headliners will always be hard to get but most attractions are available 30days out

 

[Ben E N]

Where is the word that Disney is toying with the idea of having people pay for fastpasses coming from? I haven't seen it listed on any credible news or rumors site, but I may have missed something. As an unsubstantiated rumor, it has been around for years, but nothing has ever come of it.

 

[giovanni2231]

On a wdwnt feed there was an article Disney was toying with the idea of charging for fastpasses to certain rides, specifically for the new star wars stuff. Again, more of a rumor im sure, but something to think about.

Seems like everyone has an issue with the way the system currently is, but doesn't want to add an extra expense to an already expensive trip. Which I agree with as well. But I just come back to I've already spent several thousands or more, what is a few more hundred to insure I get on all the popular attractions.

But besides whether or not I get on rides like 7DMT or Avatar, the real issue is coming down to the whole process. Like many of you have said, part of the planning is the fun, which for me is one of my favorite things to do... nothing like planning a Disney trip. Spreadsheets, phone calls, combing the Disney website, it is great and part of the process, but now it seems like even with all the planning you still may be shut out of things, or more importantly, once you make a decision, there is no turning back. I think the system forces you to rope drop... who doesnt want to relax and kind of fly by the seat of your pants when on vacation, the problem here is you cant. I figure like universal where you pay for an unlimited pass for the day, would cut down on the planning and strict schedule and also allow me to come and go a little more since once I get to the park, I have full front of the line access to all the rides.

As I was typing that last part, I thought of this as a solution...

Instead of Disney having times to ride the ride, you just pick 3 or 4 fastpasses for the day. Then you choose the time to ride them once your in the park. In the end Disney accounts for a certain amount of FP per ride per day, the only thing they spread them out over the coarse of the day. In the end the people would manage the time themselves. If I walk over to pooh and the fp line is backed up, I come back later when less people are there. At some point the fp line has to die down, Disney would still be capping the number daily. Law of averages would probably be close to the same wait times now on a fp lines, but without the hassle of choosing times 60 or 30 days out...

Doing something like this I think is the answer. It addresses all concerns. It still makes and allows you to plan, still allows you only 3 or 4 per day until you use them, doesnt cost any more money, allows you the freedom to feel like your on vacation and your not running on such a tight schedule. They could still tier the rides so everyone chooses 1 tier one ride per day. Not that someone has 3 top tiered rides. They could even release a certain number at 60 days, 30 days and day of... this would allow for changes and also make it fair for all visitors. The reality now, the person at 30 days or day of, isnt getting a FP to tier 1 rides. In fact , the person that has 60 day access and waits until day 59, isnt getting them either.... so something needs to change, I think choosing 3 or 4 per day without times would work

Seems like everyone wins here... and no I dont work for Disney. Im just someone that loves to come here, so experiences these issues everytime im planning a trip and really feel the frustrations once im there.

 

[giovanni2231]

Is Disney Considering Selling FastPass for Rides in Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge at Disneyland and Walt Disney World? https://wdwnt.com/?p=140338

The article....

 

[Ben E N]

Is Disney Considering Selling FastPass for Rides in Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge at Disneyland and Walt Disney World? https://wdwnt.com/?p=140338

The article....

Thanks. It looks like the consideration is to have them just for the two Star Wars rides, on top of the "free" ones that they give out right now. I couldn't imagine the cost for those, but would bet it sits at somewhere around $100 per fastpass. Like the club level FPs, this can work as long as it doesn't appear that they are "taking away" too many FPs from other guests.

I was surprised to hear that Disney would even be considering changing the system they have in place now, because they have spent so much time tweaking it to perfect it for their needs. If you want to get on the new Star Wars rides, the Avatar Ride, and 7DMT, then you are looking at locking yourself into a 9 day+ trip in order to get those fastpasses, and even that is not a sure thing. And, if you want to stay on site but visit other places during days 4-6, you end up paying $25 per day+ in parking fees. So rather than have people pay the $100 or so per day that Universal charges (free if you stay in their hotels), or the $15 per day for a MaxPass, Disney World has set it up where you have to get locked into committing thousands of dollars towards your vacation, almost all of which goes to Disney, in order to skip the lines to go on those rides.
I am already pretty sure that I will not be able to get a fastpass for Avatar during a 4 day trip this summer. If I were desperate enough to get on it, I would have to change my trip to a longer one, further benefitting Disney.

 

[anorman]

I think the FP system is fine the way it is. Stop asking Disney to charge extra for various things...they're pretty good at managing that on their own.

Isn't that the truth!

 

[hookem91]

They already have a “pay for unlimited FP experience” in some respects. Rich people just rent a plaid. Like what it is $3k a day plus tip...I have seen celebrities and sports stars going from ride to ride and go right thru the FP side with their plaid, best dining resides, best fireworks viewing spots. So they do sell the unlimited experience. It just isn’t affordable to regular folks. But the avenue does exist.

 

[JETSDAD]

On a wdwnt feed there was an article Disney was toying with the idea of charging for fastpasses to certain rides, specifically for the new star wars stuff. Again, more of a rumor im sure, but something to think about.

Seems like everyone has an issue with the way the system currently is, but doesn't want to add an extra expense to an already expensive trip. Which I agree with as well. But I just come back to I've already spent several thousands or more, what is a few more hundred to insure I get on all the popular attractions.

But besides whether or not I get on rides like 7DMT or Avatar, the real issue is coming down to the whole process. Like many of you have said, part of the planning is the fun, which for me is one of my favorite things to do... nothing like planning a Disney trip. Spreadsheets, phone calls, combing the Disney website, it is great and part of the process, but now it seems like even with all the planning you still may be shut out of things, or more importantly, once you make a decision, there is no turning back. I think the system forces you to rope drop... who doesnt want to relax and kind of fly by the seat of your pants when on vacation, the problem here is you cant. I figure like universal where you pay for an unlimited pass for the day, would cut down on the planning and strict schedule and also allow me to come and go a little more since once I get to the park, I have full front of the line access to all the rides.

As I was typing that last part, I thought of this as a solution...

Instead of Disney having times to ride the ride, you just pick 3 or 4 fastpasses for the day. Then you choose the time to ride them once your in the park. In the end Disney accounts for a certain amount of FP per ride per day, the only thing they spread them out over the coarse of the day. In the end the people would manage the time themselves. If I walk over to pooh and the fp line is backed up, I come back later when less people are there. At some point the fp line has to die down, Disney would still be capping the number daily. Law of averages would probably be close to the same wait times now on a fp lines, but without the hassle of choosing times 60 or 30 days out...

Doing something like this I think is the answer. It addresses all concerns. It still makes and allows you to plan, still allows you only 3 or 4 per day until you use them, doesnt cost any more money, allows you the freedom to feel like your on vacation and your not running on such a tight schedule. They could still tier the rides so everyone chooses 1 tier one ride per day. Not that someone has 3 top tiered rides. They could even release a certain number at 60 days, 30 days and day of... this would allow for changes and also make it fair for all visitors. The reality now, the person at 30 days or day of, isnt getting a FP to tier 1 rides. In fact , the person that has 60 day access and waits until day 59, isnt getting them either.... so something needs to change, I think choosing 3 or 4 per day without times would work

Seems like everyone wins here... and no I dont work for Disney. Im just someone that loves to come here, so experiences these issues everytime im planning a trip and really feel the frustrations once im there.

Actually no, not all of us have a problem with the current system and yes, you can get top tier FP's without booking 60+ days out. There are already ways you can pay to get on to the top rides if you're really excited to give Disney more money or don't want to simply use the current system to it's fullest. EMM, DAH, VIP tours, etc. I don't pay for any extras and still ride top tier rides throughout the day, with FP's that I get that very day. Instead of complaining about the system I'd just recommend learning to use it better....Disney's 'solutions' are almost always worse than their 'problems'.

ETA: I don't understand saying that everyone has an issue with the current system when the vote in your very own poll suggest that most would rather keep the system the same rather than make changes to it.

 

[KellyHonos]

Think it depends on how much it is. I don’t think the old system could keep up with the current flood of ppl now. I think the only way to gatekeep is extra paid experiences. I’m with you, though. I like the planning. What I don’t like is that it’s not very flexible when you need to make a change.

Luckily, when my sister and I travel, we don't have too much issue changing something around because it's just the 2 of us. I could see how a group of 4 and up may have struggles changing things last minute because it's harder to accommodate larger parties. I think the fact the fp+ gives you an hour time slot is also nice because it gives you the flexibility to either go right when it starts or take your time and catch it at the end of the time period.

 

[giovanni2231]

If you read through most of the posts, most people have some issue with the current system, but it comes down to they dont want to spend extra money. The vote, is mainly no, because of money, not because they think it works.

Not sure how many people you travel with, but im usually 6. Not so simple, to change things up the day of. And without wasting time refreshing and keep refreshing and stalking MDE, there is no way you are getting attractions like SDMT, Avatar or slinky the day of... you may on occasion find that diamond in the rough, but that is not a common thing and takes a lot of time on the app.

I agree the paid things are ways to get onto some of these attractions easier, but that was my point, lots of us are paying for those things and spending extra money anyway.
But if you read my last post, it wasn't about Disney just charging for FP... do you not think there are other ways they can better the system. I mentioned not having a time slot, just get 3 or 4 per day, then you choose when to go. That way you areny on such a tight schedule. So it wasnt just about the money.

I also come often, so maybe things amplify for us. If I was coming annually or every couple years, I guess I wouldnt be complaining as much.

 

[JETSDAD]

ETA: I don't understand saying that everyone has an issue with the current system when the vote in your very own poll suggest that most would rather keep the system the same rather than make changes to it.

If you read through most of the posts, most people have some issue with the current system, but it comes down to they dont want to spend extra money. The vote, is mainly no, because of money, not because they think it works.

Not sure how many people you travel with, but im usually 6. Not so simple, to change things up the day of. And without wasting time refreshing and keep refreshing and stalking MDE, there is no way you are getting attractions like SDMT, Avatar or slinky the day of... you may on occasion find that diamond in the rough, but that is not a common thing and takes a lot of time on the app.

I agree the paid things are ways to get onto some of these attractions easier, but that was my point, lots of us are paying for those things and spending extra money anyway.
But if you read my last post, it wasn't about Disney just charging for FP... do you not think there are other ways they can better the system. I mentioned not having a time slot, just get 3 or 4 per day, then you choose when to go. That way you areny on such a tight schedule. So it wasnt just about the money.

I also come often, so maybe things amplify for us. If I was coming annually or every couple years, I guess I wouldnt be complaining as much.

I don't want to be limited to 3-4 FP's per day....I don't know many people who would be. We did a trip in December with 7 people and were able to get SDD twice day of and FOP night before when people decided that it would be a great idea to switch the following days plans to AK. We do normally travel with 3 and routinely do FOP multiple times per day. A quick look this morning brought about normal results for all the top rides. We visit 2-3 times per year and I would think that people who routinely visit the parks would actually be at an advantage in knowing the system. Yes, I refresh but I don't spend nearly the amount of time on my phone as people seem to think it takes as I've shown multiple times when I've posted what can be found within a short period of time. It sure beats waiting in standby lines.

 

[Ben E N]

If you read through most of the posts, most people have some issue with the current system, but it comes down to they dont want to spend extra money. The vote, is mainly no, because of money, not because they think it works.

Not sure how many people you travel with, but im usually 6. Not so simple, to change things up the day of. And without wasting time refreshing and keep refreshing and stalking MDE, there is no way you are getting attractions like SDMT, Avatar or slinky the day of... you may on occasion find that diamond in the rough, but that is not a common thing and takes a lot of time on the app.

I agree the paid things are ways to get onto some of these attractions easier, but that was my point, lots of us are paying for those things and spending extra money anyway.
But if you read my last post, it wasn't about Disney just charging for FP... do you not think there are other ways they can better the system. I mentioned not having a time slot, just get 3 or 4 per day, then you choose when to go. That way you areny on such a tight schedule. So it wasnt just about the money.

I also come often, so maybe things amplify for us. If I was coming annually or every couple years, I guess I wouldnt be complaining as much.

Something that is missing in your idea, or your argument about not everybody being thrilled about the current system, is that for Disney to make any change, it would have to benefit them. If you look at it from a "what's good for Disney?" viewpoint, I feel that, except for maybe a tweak or two, they have their best possible system working right now. They lock people into long stays, where they have to be on property, in order to get fastpasses. And, they can claim that it is a 'fair' system because they are not directly charging for those fastpasses, and anybody can get them at 30 days, even though the good ones are all taken well before then.
This is why I was asking where the news of them moving the system was coming from. They have spent years making small tweaks to make it work more and more in their favor, and if they were to tear the whole thing down for $100 per day from some people, it would only be because they knew it would make them even more money in return.

 

[giovanni2231]

Ben, that is a really good point and I realize that. Just still feel that they could do something. Take the money thing out the equation, my whole point to this, was to hear some other Disney Vets ideas on changes that would work for everyone, including Disney. Everyone is looking at the money... Forget the money... How could they tweak or change their system for the better? I realize that you will always have a group that wont like something. If they focus and benefit only on-property guests, people will say what about me, I'm staying off property. What about DVC or Annual Pass Holders? Although there will be people that will say, who cares about DVC or AP... I get all that, but forget what you and I think or anyone outside of Disney thinks, what should Disney think? In the end, the DVC, AP holder, staying on property, especially in the Deluxe resorts, Disney should care and should want to give those more perks. The same way you get discounts on dining and merchandise, why not have a FP perk... One that besides 60 days vs 30 days or day of is something more. For as many 1st timers that visit Disney daily, there are just as many DVC, AP and Disney fanatics that are in the parks. Why shouldn't we get something a little extra. And giving you a 4th or 5th FP daily, or allowing you with a resort reservation PLUS DVC or AP to make your FP's say at the 61st day mark. Or allow you to make different parks on the same day or not limit you on Tier 1, Tier 2 FP's. These things don't cost Disney a dime and in the end, could actually benefit them. The same way Universal does not include unlimited access, unless staying in one of their 3 deluxe resorts. They dont do it for everyone staying on property.

And I'm not saying don't give people outside a deluxe resort FP access, I'm saying, give them their access, but the person in the Deluxe, DVC or AP, give them more access or better access... Look how many DVC resorts and rooms there are, these are all bought by people that want to be at Disney every vacation they take... besides getting a merchandise discount, what other perk is there for committing thousands and thousands of dollars to Disney? Same thing for AP holders. You take a family of 4 or 5 buying AP's, that is nearly $5000 per year just in passes, without dining, hotel, etc...The AP is useless without a resort stay, so you get 30 day FP access with AP, that is useless because by that point, you are NOT getting tier 1 FP's. And they give you a discount merchandise. Again, it is a nice perk, but that means you are spending more money... WHERE is the Disney PERK for buying an AP or DVC that don't cost you anything more? All their perks cost you more money in the end...Which i guess is their plan. You do need to make your followers happy once in a while and throw you a bone. Not that we need to work the system, spend hours doing it and spend thousands of dollars to get some of those extras.

I don't know, i guess we can go at this forever. Everyone has their opinions and how it effects them directly. Some people have better tricks on how to work the FP system and some just learn to walk around, thinking it is all part of the Disney experience. It is supposed to be like this... Me, as you can tell i am both DVC and AP and my home resort is VGF, a deluxe resort. I am also a person that buys, deluxe dining, early morning, various VIP tours and special events like After Dark, so i guess i am going to b*tch about how i am directly effected... But to start out, i wanted to hear others ideas and whether or not they like the current system or thought how it could be changed...

And i i guess the real killer, Disney knows they have us all drinking the cool aid... After reading most of my posts, most people would think, this guy is anti-Disney.. In fact, I'm the total opposite... I love it! And although i complain about these things, i am still going a total of 5 times this year, with one of them being a 23 day stay this June... Not to mention, we just got back today... Disney knows what they are getting from people like me and i guess they take it for granted...

 

[hdnyc]

A few thoughts in case any WDW employees are actually reading this!

1) The current system is very stressful and it is difficult to coordinate dining reservations with Fastpass reservations. That's my biggest dislike - trying to get a hard-to-get FP reservation and also a hard-to-get dining reservation at the parks you want on the days you want.
2) I dislike the club level system because you're already paying so much extra for a club level room, then they're charging you on top of that for the Fastpasses, and it makes it feel like you're wasting money because you have days that you don't spend at the parks or days that you go to Universal/Sea World. I don't care about the lounge with food, would prefer to eat in the parks.
3) For our upcoming trip, the cost of staying Club Level for 6 nights and buying the Fastpass upgrade was MORE than staying non-Club Level and hiring a Disney guide for one day. That seems out of balance to me.
4) I wish you had the option to buy 1, 2, or 3 extra Fastpasses with Club Level and not just the 3 extra ones. I don't need 6 Fastpasses at Animal Kingdom, but I would use 6 FPs at Magic Kingdom.
5) There are so many options now for getting rides done quickly - 90-day CL Fastpass, 60-day Fastpass, 30-day Fastpass, EMH, DAH, Frozen dessert party, hiring a tour guide, doing one of the pre-planned tours. . .it is very overhwhelming to try and decide what will best for your trip so far in advance. I think I'm pretty knowledgable about Disney, and even I find it confusing, so I can't imagine what a regular person feels trying to plan a trip. The Universal Express system seems more cut and dry and easier to understand.
6) Right now the plaids use the Fastpass line for most rides - I think that the plaids could use a front-of-the-line entrance if they want to keep it a premium product and still offer more options for paid Fastpasses. And they would still have the ability to let you ride the same ride over and over, unlike a Fastpass.
7) People booking their Fastpasses 60 days in advance STILL can't get the Fastpasses they want. I think if you're staying on property and paying this extra money for those benefits, you should be able to get the Fastpasses you want - maybe not at the exact times you want, but you should be able to get them for all the rides.
8) I would imagine the extra revenue they'd take in by offering paid Fastpasses would outweigh the money they're making from the private tour guides - so financially, it probably makes sense to do the paid Fastpasses at the expense of the tour guides, and maybe just make the VIP tour guides cheaper but giving them the ability to transport people between parks using the backstage areas to save time.
9) I don't like with the Club Level system that you're locked into 6 hours of Fastpasses. I wish you could book 2 per hour because you're committing a big chunk of the day to your Fastpasses, and if people have little kids who need to nap or want to go back to their rooms to enjoy the pool/CL lounge, it really leaves you with very little time to enjoy other things at the parks or have a relaxing meal at a restaurant.

 

[DLgal]

Yes, they should change it and this is how I propose they do so:

Eliminate pre booking FP EXCEPT for onsite guests, and then only 30 days in advance. No one else should be able to pre book FP (also take this perk away from all the Good Neighbor hotels. Disney hotels ONLY for this perk). This will be free for resort guests.

Everyone else needs to book same day fastpasses after they enter the park, but it should be electronic, like Maxpass at DL. They should charge per day for this, something like $10/person/day. It will also include Photopass like they do at Disneyland. If you don't want to pay, you get standby lines.

Resort guests will get three FREE fastpasses per day, in advance, in ANY park (I'll allow splitting). Beyond that, they will also have to pay for the Maxpass to continue to use fastpass after the first three free ones. Resort guests will get the option to pay per day, or add it as a length of stay option for a discounted price. Annual passholders will also have the option to add Maxpass to their pass for a flat rate (currently, this costs $100 at Disneyland, and it's a great deal at that price).

This will make Disney a bunch of money while at the same time, cutting down the fastpass lines so that they truly are fast, and the standby lines move more efficiently.

Maxpass at Disneyland is amazing, and it is obvious that it is the refined version of FP+, that Disney developed after seeing all the issues that FP+ has. They reworked it into a truly user friendly, intuitive system that works. I wish Disneyland would go one step further and take away the free, machine fastpasses. Go all electronic, and no more free fastpass. It's well beyond time to move to a paid system.

Also, WDW needs to get away from that ridiculous 180 day ADR system. 60 days, or even 30 days advanced reservations. That is all. Disneyland is 60 and it works fine, and you can often get same day or day before reservations, or just walk up and wait for a table.

 

[Ben E N]

Yes, they should change it and this is how I propose they do so:

Eliminate pre booking FP EXCEPT for onsite guests, and then only 30 days in advance. No one else should be able to pre book FP (also take this perk away from all the Good Neighbor hotels. Disney hotels ONLY for this perk). This will be free for resort guests.

Everyone else needs to book same day fastpasses after they enter the park, but it should be electronic, like Maxpass at DL. They should charge per day for this, something like $10/person/day. It will also include Photopass like they do at Disneyland. If you don't want to pay, you get standby lines.

Resort guests will get three FREE fastpasses per day, in advance, in ANY park (I'll allow splitting). Beyond that, they will also have to pay for the Maxpass to continue to use fastpass after the first three free ones. Resort guests will get the option to pay per day, or add it as a length of stay option for a discounted price. Annual passholders will also have the option to add Maxpass to their pass for a flat rate (currently, this costs $100 at Disneyland, and it's a great deal at that price).

This will make Disney a bunch of money while at the same time, cutting down the fastpass lines so that they truly are fast, and the standby lines move more efficiently.

Maxpass at Disneyland is amazing, and it is obvious that it is the refined version of FP+, that Disney developed after seeing all the issues that FP+ has. They reworked it into a truly user friendly, intuitive system that works. I wish Disneyland would go one step further and take away the free, machine fastpasses. Go all electronic, and no more free fastpass. It's well beyond time to move to a paid system.

Also, WDW needs to get away from that ridiculous 180 day ADR system. 60 days, or even 30 days advanced reservations. That is all. Disneyland is 60 and it works fine, and you can often get same day or day before reservations, or just walk up and wait for a table.

This idea has a 0% chance of being implemented. The beauty of letting offsite guests book FPs in advance is it gets them to lock into going to Disney a month in advance of being there, regardless of weather, how someone is feeling that day, etc.
It makes people pay money for tickets in advance, and if somebody in a traveling party wants to go to Universal Studios on a whim one day, someone else in the party can say "yeah, but we have a fastpass for Soarin at 2 PM today. I don't want to miss that." If they were to book day of, they could much more easily decide not to go at all.

 

[DLgal]

This idea has a 0% chance of being implemented. The beauty of letting offsite guests book FPs in advance is it gets them to lock into going to Disney a month in advance of being there, regardless of weather, how someone is feeling that day, etc.
It makes people pay money for tickets in advance, and if somebody in a traveling party wants to go to Universal Studios on a whim one day, someone else in the party can say "yeah, but we have a fastpass for Soarin at 2 PM today. I don't want to miss that." If they were to book day of, they could much more easily decide not to go at all.

Booking a fastpass doesn't lock someone into going to a park at all. It's not like there is a cancellation fee.

Disneyland is chock full of people almost every day of the year, with no advanced fastpass booking. If people are planning to go on a specific day, they will go regardless.

 

[Ben E N]

Booking a fastpass doesn't lock someone into going to a park at all. It's not like there is a cancellation fee.

Disneyland is chock full of people almost every day of the year, with no advanced fastpass booking. If people are planning to go on a specific day, they will go regardless.

Disneyland faces much less nearby competition than WDW does. While fastpasses do not actually make someone go there, they act as a carrot to encourage them to do so. If they are day of, a guest could just as easily decide to not go that day, and visit universal or the beach instead.
The advance booking of FPs also lets Disney know how many people are expected at each park, and encourages guests to evenly distribute amongst them. If all SDD Fps are taken, but FoP is available, it moves people to AK, and gives them an incentive to go there on that day.
While day of FPs wouldn't kill them, it doesn't gain anything for Disney, either, which is why they wouldn't go through with that change.