Hawaii Tourism Not Starting Up Until Late Summer

When I saw an AKV Standard room open for Xmas/New Years two weeks ago, I quickly cancelled my Aulani August reservation for that. Hawaii can wait until 2021 for us. In late April, I really thought we would be going to Hawaii this Summer, but as time passed it seemed less likely that the state would open up.
 
We are hoping to go to Kauai and Oahu in March. Not if we have to self quarantine for 14 days.

We have Kauai booked, did that in January before we ever heard of coronavirus! We can’t book Aulani until August. I really hope we can go!!
 


The problem I have with most of the ideas thrown out there by the Hawaiian Gov’t for conditional tourism just don’t seem practicable or in some cases even legal. According to The NY Times, opening tourism to the Japanese and not to the mainland USA may run them afoul of the FTC. As to getting tested before you go, how are they going to verify that and still adhere to HIPAA regulations? How would someone provide proof of testing? A Lab report? Any sort of paper documentation they will have forged copies out there within a day of release. As much as they’d like to distance themselves from the other 49 states they are still part of the USA and bound to those laws.
 
We are hoping to go to Kauai and Oahu in March. Not if we have to self quarantine for 14 days.

We have Kauai booked, did that in January before we ever heard of coronavirus! We can’t book Aulani until August. I really hope we can go!!
Give us a thread with your Kauai plans!! I’m planning Maui and Kauai in 2022 and love to hear others’ ideas!
 
The problem I have with most of the ideas thrown out there by the Hawaiian Gov’t for conditional tourism just don’t seem practicable or in some cases even legal. According to The NY Times, opening tourism to the Japanese and not to the mainland USA may run them afoul of the FTC. As to getting tested before you go, how are they going to verify that and still adhere to HIPAA regulations? How would someone provide proof of testing? A Lab report? Any sort of paper documentation they will have forged copies out there within a day of release. As much as they’d like to distance themselves from the other 49 states they are still part of the USA and bound to those laws.
most of whats been said to the media by the state and city governments has largely just been "throw enough darts at a wall and maybe one sticks"...aka "we don't really know what to do". it is possible they may be throwing out all of these ideas to see if any of them don't get noticeable backlash before they look into them further...could also be a throw out a crazy idea...and let others figure out if its legal or not,,,aka "make the fact checkers become free labor".

for HIPAA regs...it is quite possible that the reason disney, universal, and others are going with thermal scanners is so that they comply with it (having a temp above x does not necessarily reveal a specific medical condition and in some cases doesn't mean there is any medical condition at all). after this is all over HIPAA seems like one of many laws that get tweaked as part of a "lessons learned" sort of thing.
 


most of whats been said to the media by the state and city governments has largely just been "throw enough darts at a wall and maybe one sticks"...aka "we don't really know what to do". it is possible they may be throwing out all of these ideas to see if any of them don't get noticeable backlash before they look into them further...could also be a throw out a crazy idea...and let others figure out if its legal or not,,,aka "make the fact checkers become free labor".

for HIPAA regs...it is quite possible that the reason disney, universal, and others are going with thermal scanners is so that they comply with it (having a temp above x does not necessarily reveal a specific medical condition and in some cases doesn't mean there is any medical condition at all). after this is all over HIPAA seems like one of many laws that get tweaked as part of a "lessons learned" sort of thing.

It's hard for me to understand why they aren't working on realistic plans that can both save lives while at the same time not destroy people's lives. We have enough data now to understand how this spreads and who is most vulnerable to the virus. However no matter how much data is collected it never seems to be enough as they continue to operate in a constant state of fear and therefore prefer to rely on hope to be the answer to save Hawaii. Hope that a cure is going to be produced in time or hope that the federal government will bail Hawaii out from the deep economic hole they are continuing to dig. At some point reality will sink in, but will it be too late to save people's livelihood? There seems to be no balance between the two philosophical schools of thoughts which is to save all lives at all cost and personal freedom to allow people to choose how they want to live their lives.
 
there are several factors that make it actually possible to "safely" open to a country like japan, or south korea prior to any other state in the US.

one is the availability of tests that are reliable...if the outbreak isn't well under control tests aren't going to be widely available in the numbers needed to make a "test before you fly" strategy possible.

another are the laws that are related to what can/can't be done (there are sooooo many more things you can't do or require of fellow US states/citizens than citizens of other countries.) HIPAA being one of the bigger ones...theres also examples of quarantines being struck down in their entirety because they allowed some but not all...or technicalities regarding timing or duration. it is possible that unless the quarantine goes "too far"...it can't be implemented at all from a legal stand point...probably another set of laws that will need to be tweaked after this is all over.

unfortunately it does not seem like there truly is enough data on how it spreads yet (which seems very odd for a respiratory disease). there are things like can you get it a 2nd time (or for those who seem like they do...did they ever get over the 1st one?). if you have antibodies even if it does protect you...can you still spread the virus...there's things that haven't been talked about much until recently...such as bathrooms and toilets. the virus is detectable in the sewer systems...so it must be present to some extent in bowels and/or bladders (this is where the virus can supposedly hide in bats...so it is possible)....so its not just coughs...farts might be capable of spreading it (with n95 masks...if you can smell things...its not working...so odds are pants/underwear not enough to protect others)...and its waaaaaaaay easier to tell how far those can spread/linger.

as far as who it affects...thats changed so much since the beginning...and will probably continue to change for a while as understanding of the virus continues to evolve...at first the very young were thought to be virtually immune...yet charts showing which age group has the most infections show that its overwhelmingly the young getting infected...there have been cases where seemingly healthier younger people don't make it...while their older parents with conditions thought to make you more likely to not make it...get through mostly just fine. there have been 100+ year olds making it through, and now some under 21 getting hit with those weird rashes.

some of it is fear...memorial day weekend crowds showed what happens when popular locations re-open...and I'd anticipate seeing some rather concerning levels of crowds at universal and the other major theme parks in florida when they re-open...not necessarily inside, but outside as some try to get in that may not have heard anything other than "they're open now"...or not understood what the new procedures are...or simply don't care. hopefully it all goes fine...

some comes down to expectations, and mentality...shanghai disney re-opened first (has been open for a while now) and implemented what is likely to be very similar policies to how disneyworld re-opens...yet there were no massive outcries and backlash over date specific tickets...cancelled fast passes and dining reservations...

of course all of these things are very broad generalizations, and don't apply to everyone from particular countries, states, etc. and it would of course be best to be able to let in only those capable of behaving responsibly (as enforcing policies is also something hawaii hasn't been very good at from the start of the pandemic)...but there is no way to tell who will/won't do so...even if there were...it still probably wouldn't be legal to do to other US states,
 
...such as bathrooms and toilets. the virus is detectable in the sewer systems...so it must be present to some extent in bowels and/or bladders..

I don’t quite follow that connection. There are plenty of ways the virus can enter the sewer system by means of people washing faces, hands and flushing miriad contaminated tissues down the toilet. The presence in the stool can be attributed to nasal drainage down the esophagus into the digestive tract where it passes through. Most evidence of viral presence in the stool is of viral DNA, not active virus. The presence of active virus in the stool is more postulated then proven right now. Also to keep in mind is that the water in the toilets and sinks is chlorinated. Lastly a fart carrying the virus is a bit far fetched the virons travel via water droplets and not via a gas.
 
...such as bathrooms and toilets. the virus is detectable in the sewer systems...so it must be present to some extent in bowels and/or bladders..

I don’t quite follow that connection. There are plenty of ways the virus can enter the sewer system by means of people washing faces, hands and flushing miriad contaminated tissues down the toilet. The presence in the stool can be attributed to nasal drainage down the esophagus into the digestive tract where it passes through. Most evidence of viral presence in the stool is of viral DNA, not active virus. The presence of active virus in the stool is more postulated then proven right now. Also to keep in mind is that the water in the toilets and sinks is chlorinated. Lastly a fart carrying the virus is a bit far fetched the virons travel via water droplets and not via a gas.
water in hawaii (and possibly elsewhere in the US as well isn’t chlorinated)

the intestines supposedly have the same cell receptors that the virus uses as the heart and lungs...as to how it gets there...whether through the stomach acid, or through the blood stream somehow...maybe both?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/13/health/wellness-covid-attacks-organs-kidney/index.html
still lots of things being found. I think youtube might still have the mythbusters video about how far fecal matter can spread from a toilet flush...and as many have personal experience with...not all farts are “dry”.
 

We'll see if the Justice Department prevails over the Maine case. I would imagine that if they do then Hawaii is next on the Justice Department's radar.
 
water in hawaii (and possibly elsewhere in the US as well isn’t chlorinated)
I really doubt any municipal water source is NOT chlorinated.

Oahu Board of Water Supply
https://www.boardofwatersupply.com/water-quality/frequently-asked-questions
Yes, all of the water pumped into the BWS water distribution system is chlorinated. Concentrations ranging from 0.25 to 0.5 milligrams per liter (ppm) of chlorine can be found throughout the water system. Since excessive amounts of chlorine can affect the taste and odor of drinking water, the BWS adds only what is needed to keep disease-causing bacteria from contaminating our water supply.

If you experience a strong chlorine smell or taste in your water, contact the BWS Microbiological Laboratory at (808) 748-5850.
 
It's hard for me to understand why they aren't working on realistic plans that can both save lives while at the same time not destroy people's lives. We have enough data now to understand how this spreads and who is most vulnerable to the virus. However no matter how much data is collected it never seems to be enough as they continue to operate in a constant state of fear and therefore prefer to rely on hope to be the answer to save Hawaii.

You really hit the nail on the head.

Every reasonable plan that has been presented (rapid testing, antibody tests, etc.) has been ripped to shreds because people are living in fear. But SOMETHING is better than NOTHING! Even if the rapid test has a 20% failure rate, it's better than mass starvation and homelessness . . . which is what will happen when government aid runs out.

There seems to be no balance between the two philosophical schools of thoughts which is to save all lives at all cost and personal freedom to allow people to choose how they want to live their lives.

The two school of thought are not balanced. The majority of people feel defeating coronavirus is more important than saving the economy: https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/05/civil-beat-hnn-poll-stop-virus-even-if-economy-crumbles/

Primary mail-in voting (and all voting in Hawaii is via mail) starts next month and no politician wants to be known as the person who spearheaded the effort to open tourism. I've said it before and I'll say it again - there is no public or political will to open up Hawaii to tourism. Also, Hawaii received $5B in federal aid in the past three months. Tourism used to bring in $1.5B/month. If another federal aid package is approved there will be even less incentive to open up tourism.
 
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We'll see if the Justice Department prevails over the Maine case. I would imagine that if they do then Hawaii is next on the Justice Department's radar.

Maine requires tourists but not residents to self-quarantine. Hawaii requires both tourists and residents to self-quarantine. The argument of discrimination wouldn't apply in Hawaii.
 
Maine requires tourists but not residents to self-quarantine. Hawaii requires both tourists and residents to self-quarantine. The argument of discrimination wouldn't apply in Hawaii.

They are lifting the quarantine requirement for inter island travel on June 16th and are working on plans for the people of New Zealand, Australia, Japan and South Korea to travel without quarantine restrictions. Hawaii was given US tax payer money of $5 billion for the whopping grand total of 652 coronavirus cases, and yet they are talking about opening up their island to foreigners before their own fellow Americans??? They are acting as if they are their own sovereign nation trying to make deals with other countries. I'm sorry, but this does not sit right with me at all.
 
They are lifting the quarantine requirement for inter island travel on June 16th and are working on plans for the people of New Zealand, Australia, Japan and South Korea to travel without quarantine restrictions. Hawaii was given US tax payer money of $5 billion for the whopping grand total of 652 coronavirus cases, and yet they are talking about opening up their island to foreigners before their own fellow Americans??? They are acting as if they are their own sovereign nation trying to make deals with other countries. I'm sorry, but this does not sit right with me at all.

So then aren't we back to discrimination like the Maine case?
 

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