I Find It Hard to be Friendly with People With Opposing Views....

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As a conservative Christian I'm morally and ethically opposed to most things in this day and age. I just try to ignore it and go about my business. It's not my place to judge other people... hate the sin, love the sinner is how I like to look at things. I tend to judge people on how they treat me or how they treat my kids. I could care less about anything else.

I think your statement, though, for me is where I would have to draw the line, so to speak, on being your best friend. I would certainly have zero issues being an acquaintance with you, having you over for dinner, socializing, etc. at arm's length. But my BEST friend and I, at least for me, need to have some common world views. We share everything and if I knew that she believed that one of my children was a sinner because he/she is gay, that would actually kind of devastate me personally. I would never disown my best friend for those views but I think the relationship would change because those views are personally hurtful to the some people.

I would consider myself a conservative Christian as well, but I do see how the infamous "hate the sin/love the sinner" platitude can be offensive & even, like you said, devastating & hurtful. DH & I both came out of churches & private schools w/ that "view," for lack of a better word, &, just within the last few years, it's something with which I've honestly struggled & wrestled & about which I've had conversations w/ DH & others. I can't change my core beliefs, but I can change my attitude & how I relate to & see other people, if that makes sense.

So I get it. And I hope I haven't offended anyone, but I think genuine honesty is needed for a respectful dialogue so we can better understand each other.
 
The only time I have a problem being friends or cordial to someone with view different from mine is if they act as if their beliefs make them superior somehow. There are a few people I no longer chat with mostly because of the tone of a few discussions.
 
There is a place for personal beliefs. We all have them & I find it unlikely that two people will ever be in complete agreement on every issue. We would all be living very lonely lives in echo chambers with clones of ourselves. However, what I am trying to say (and what I believe the other poster is trying to say) is that the place for personal belief is not in public policy.

There may be, for example, some type of medical procedure that a person does not believe in. Person A might say (and absolutely has the right to say) “this procedure is not one that I would ever have because it goes against my beliefs” & never choose it for themselves, while voting to keep it available for others. Person B might selfishly vote to restrict access to the procedure for others - even for those who do not share their beliefs. I could easily continue to be friends with Person A. I absolutely could not continue to be friends with Person B.

Merely having an opinion is not reason enough for me to write someone off. It doesn’t tell you enough about the person’s heart or who they are. The attempted imposition of beliefs, morals, etc on other people is where I draw the line.

Not very open minded of you.
 


For instance, the issue of abortion is important to me, & I will vote for the candidate whose views align most closely w/ my beliefs. However, I have many friends who would vote opposite me when it came to the issue of abortion. But, we're still friends, & they know, if something happened, I would be right there holding their hands to support them w/ whatever decision they needed to make.
My best friend had an abortion over 10 years ago. You bet your butt I was right there by her side and my personal beliefs had no bearing on my choice to be there for her and support her through what I know was a very difficult decision and time.
 
There is a place for personal beliefs. We all have them & I find it unlikely that two people will ever be in complete agreement on every issue. We would all be living very lonely lives in echo chambers with clones of ourselves. However, what I am trying to say (and what I believe the other poster is trying to say) is that the place for personal belief is not in public policy.

There may be, for example, some type of medical procedure that a person does not believe in. Person A might say (and absolutely has the right to say) “this procedure is not one that I would ever have because it goes against my beliefs” & never choose it for themselves, while voting to keep it available for others. Person B might selfishly vote to restrict access to the procedure for others - even for those who do not share their beliefs. I could easily continue to be friends with Person A. I absolutely could not continue to be friends with Person B.

Merely having an opinion is not reason enough for me to write someone off. It doesn’t tell you enough about the person’s heart or who they are. The attempted imposition of beliefs, morals, etc on other people is where I draw the line.
But people don't typically get to vote on specific issues like that. They vote for candidates. How is it that you know in their heart if by voting for a particular candidate they did so because they want X outlawed or if there was a different reason for their vote?
 
In recent weeks Canada has been plunged into an unbelievably precarious state. A federal program, funded by tax-dollars, has been denied to individuals and organizations who will not sign a "declaration of agreement" with the governing party's official policy on a very polarizing moral issue. Now understand this - it is not excluding based on anything any person or organization actually does - only on what they think and/or profess to believe. The program we're talking about has absolutely nothing to do with the issue itself, nor do the people being denied benefits from the program necessarily have any way whatsoever to influence or interfere with government policy. It is nothing less that thought-policing, pure and simple and it's shocking.
I tried to Google this, but can't find anything. Can we get a link? Some more information?
 


I tried to Google this, but can't find anything. Can we get a link? Some more information?
I won't get into it because I believe it's overly political. Google: "Canada Federal Program" and filter for news. Top result right now, I believe.
 
When you live in an area that votes 95% one way, and you don't agree with them 100%, you MUST be able to be friendly with people with opposing views! Or move, I guess. Now, are they capable of same if you are completely honest with them about your views...? Tough one. When an area is very polarized, those in the majority don't seem to think they need to tolerate other views. In fact, they seem to begin conversations assuming that everyone around them MUST agree on every issue. Pretty interesting.
 
it becomes unconscionable to vote for a candidate even if you agree with them on a particular issue because of their positions on other issues. Civil and/or human rights, personal freedoms, and other such things should not be written off as collateral damage for other issues. I do believe that there are people who simply don’t know a candidate’s position on every issue & research only what’s important to them (for example, jobs).
This gets sticky... we should understand that not everyone agrees on precisely where these lines are to be drawn. Now that people have the ability to find "news sources" that they like and listen only to them, people often don't even agree on what the basic set of facts are. It's more complicated than what you laid out, I think.
 
“Not open-minded” has become such a funny phrase. When people used to say that someone is “not open-minded,” it meant “intolerant of those different from themselves, especially those in a minority position.” These days, it more often than not means “intolerant of intolerance.” I am fine with the modern definition. That definitely applies to me!


I believe my post explained this comment quite well, and the hypocrisy this emoji implies you found in it was not present. :)

To answer your second comment... at some point, it becomes unconscionable to vote for a candidate even if you agree with them on a particular issue because of their positions on other issues. Civil and/or human rights, personal freedoms, and other such things should not be written off as collateral damage for other issues. I do believe that there are people who simply don’t know a candidate’s position on every issue & research only what’s important to them (for example, jobs). I certainly don’t know every candidate’s position on every issue. In that sense, I think it’s unfair to say that someone is cruel or stupid just because they voted for a particular candidate, as some imply. I also can’t agree with the “all Liberals are X” & “all Conservatives are X” statements. Too broad & too polarizing.

However, I can’t recall a time (in my personal experience) when a person who has been vocal about the candidate they voted for has not also been vocal about their positions on various issues. It’s difficult for me to imagine a situation in which someone would simply say “I voted for X” & not elaborate on why, or make it very clear via other statements, the contents of their social media page, etc. It may well happen, but I have never seen it.
You'll have to excuse the emoji if it read something that wasn't there. That was perhaps based on some personal experience of mine that makes me very skeptical of statements like that.

Maybe you live in a more politically charged environment that I do. But I know lots of people who don't go around spouting political opinions. Lots of people without social media pages. And plenty of people will admit who they voted for without going into a very personal blow by blow discussion of issues. I can't believe you have never seen that. Unless you like to fill in the blanks with assumptions.

Honestly, your post makes it sound like you are indeed in favor of writing off friends based solely on who they voted for.
 
There is a place for personal beliefs. We all have them & I find it unlikely that two people will ever be in complete agreement on every issue. We would all be living very lonely lives in echo chambers with clones of ourselves. However, what I am trying to say (and what I believe the other poster is trying to say) is that the place for personal belief is not in public policy.

There may be, for example, some type of medical procedure that a person does not believe in. Person A might say (and absolutely has the right to say) “this procedure is not one that I would ever have because it goes against my beliefs” & never choose it for themselves, while voting to keep it available for others. Person B might selfishly vote to restrict access to the procedure for others - even for those who do not share their beliefs. I could easily continue to be friends with Person A. I absolutely could not continue to be friends with Person B.

Merely having an opinion is not reason enough for me to write someone off. It doesn’t tell you enough about the person’s heart or who they are. The attempted imposition of beliefs, morals, etc on other people is where I draw the line.

And that is where you are wrong because obviously you have never been friends with Person B's so you have no idea why they vote the way they do. Maybe if you weren't so intolerant of others beliefs you would find out one day why Person B votes that way.
It isn't to go against Person A, it is to protect Person C. Hardly selfish in their hearts.
 
And that is where you are wrong because obviously you have never been friends with Person B's so you have no idea why they vote the way they do. Maybe if you weren't so intolerant of others beliefs you would find out one day why Person B votes that way.
It isn't to go against Person A, it is to protect Person C. Hardly selfish in their hearts.
I actually find it pretty arrogant for someone to assume they know what is in someone's heart based on how they vote. Perhaps unconscionable.
 
There is a place for personal beliefs. We all have them & I find it unlikely that two people will ever be in complete agreement on every issue. We would all be living very lonely lives in echo chambers with clones of ourselves. However, what I am trying to say (and what I believe the other poster is trying to say) is that the place for personal belief is not in public policy.

There may be, for example, some type of medical procedure that a person does not believe in. Person A might say (and absolutely has the right to say) “this procedure is not one that I would ever have because it goes against my beliefs” & never choose it for themselves, while voting to keep it available for others. Person B might selfishly vote to restrict access to the procedure for others - even for those who do not share their beliefs. I could easily continue to be friends with Person A. I absolutely could not continue to be friends with Person B.

Merely having an opinion is not reason enough for me to write someone off. It doesn’t tell you enough about the person’s heart or who they are. The attempted imposition of beliefs, morals, etc on other people is where I draw the line.

I understand what you're saying.

However, I don't think I could ever tell anyone, "I don't care what your beliefs or morals are or the reasons for your beliefs & why you voted the way you did. My reasons/beliefs are more important/more evolved/smarter/more tolerant, so we can't be friends if you voted differently than I did."

You voted your conscience, but you can't understand that other people, perhaps, are doing the same.
 
I would consider myself a conservative Christian as well, but I do see how the infamous "hate the sin/love the sinner" platitude can be offensive & even, like you said, devastating & hurtful. DH & I both came out of churches & private schools w/ that "view," for lack of a better word, &, just within the last few years, it's something with which I've honestly struggled & wrestled & about which I've had conversations w/ DH & others. I can't change my core beliefs, but I can change my attitude & how I relate to & see other people, if that makes sense.

So I get it. And I hope I haven't offended anyone, but I think genuine honesty is needed for a respectful dialogue so we can better understand each other.
To me it just a saying like when you tell you kids you hate their behavior but love them. It can cover a wide range of things. I work in a profession where I care for criminals and drug addicts. I need to maintain that attitude.
 
To me it just a saying like when you tell you kids you hate their behavior but love them. It can cover a wide range of things. I work in a profession where I care for criminals and drug addicts. I need to maintain that attitude.

But people have begun to see that saying as flippant & rather uncaring, & it can really be quite hurtful.
 
However, I don't think I could ever tell anyone, "I don't care what your beliefs or morals are or the reasons for your beliefs & why you voted the way you did. My reasons/beliefs are more important/more evolved/smarter/more tolerant, so we can't be friends if you voted differently than I did."
I wouldn't have thought anyone would do that. But I have first hand experience with someone doing just that to me. Hard to believe until you see it in action.
 
In recent weeks Canada has been plunged into an unbelievably precarious state. A federal program, funded by tax-dollars, has been denied to individuals and organizations who will not sign a "declaration of agreement" with the governing party's official policy on a very polarizing moral issue. Now understand this - it is not excluding based on anything any person or organization actually does - only on what they think and/or profess to believe. The program we're talking about has absolutely nothing to do with the issue itself, nor do the people being denied benefits from the program necessarily have any way whatsoever to influence or interfere with government policy. It is nothing less that thought-policing, pure and simple and it's shocking.

That reeks of 1984 and Big Brother which is very scary. While I am required as a Federal employee to treat everyone the same ( and I would anyway without Government interference) it doesn't mean I agree with every lifestyle, behavior, etc. Just as everyone doesn't have to agree with me, but that type of policing is scary.
 
To me it just a saying like when you tell you kids you hate their behavior but love them. It can cover a wide range of things. I work in a profession where I care for criminals and drug addicts. I need to maintain that attitude.

Sure, it works very well with criminals and drug addicts. I don't think it works with people's sexuality. Every gay person will tell you that they didn't make a choice to be that way. They were born that way. People may not agree with that but if you're not gay and haven't lived it, you don't really know how that feels. A criminal makes a choice to commit a crime. You can't lump a gay person in with a murderer or a carjacker or a meth addict. That neat, old saying condemns a person for how they were born. I find it really insulting so it would give me a little trouble if it were a dear friend or family member. Would I ever be rude to that person if they kept it to themselves? No, not at all.
 
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