I need some unbiased opinions...

[NYCgrrl]

Haven't read all the posts but were it me it would be simple: just invite him to all Thanksgiving celebrations.

 

[luvsJack]

I would not treat a dog better than him, if that was the impression that post gave you then I did not word it well.

What I was trying to say was that I was wrong and he will be welcomed with open arms. ❤

OP, I think most got what you were saying. And I am glad you have rethought it.

As someone who has been through it with both my own and dh’s mother, these first holidays are going to probably be extremely hard on your Fil. Having a new and different event to attend may be very good for him. But just keep in mind (not just you but you dh, brother and sister in law) that he is going to need some extra attention through the holidays. Just making sure he is ok. You sound like a very caring and welcoming person and he is going to need all of you.

 

[anniemae]

Wasn't he part of the core family before in moved in? He's the OP's husband's father.

Yes, I know he is OP's husbands father. But, there are two separate sides. Dh's side and OP's side of the family. They have two separate celebrations. One with his side, one with her side. Certain people are automatically included in both celebrations. When her MIL was alive, FIL was only included in the celebrations with his side of the family. Meaning he was not included in the maiden side celebrations. Now that he is living with op's brother and wife, I think he now needs to be included since otherwise he would be alone. That was the whole point of OP's dilemma. She did not want to include him in the maiden side celebration. The core meaning going to both.

 

[Nancyg56]

I think now that he lives with your brother and SIL he is part of their “core family”. Any holiday event you’d invite your brother+SIL too, he should be invited to as well unless they come up with their own arrangement about what he/they want to bow out of.

I saw you made up your mind to include him and I agree it’s the right thing to do. I also understand your ambivalence though. There are times when you just want “family” and not extended.
I remarried after my first husband died and Buddy inherited in-laws and outlaws . We combined holidays and special occasions and he was gracious because they were family but there was no reason he always had to like the practice. You don’t have to like this either. Accept it? Yes. Always be thrilled? No.

 

[sam_gordon]

Yes, I know he is OP's husbands father. But, there are two separate sides. Dh's side and OP's side of the family. They have two separate celebrations. One with his side, one with her side. Certain people are automatically included in both celebrations. When her MIL was alive, FIL was only included in the celebrations with his side of the family. Meaning he was not included in the maiden side celebrations. Now that he is living with op's brother and wife, I think he now needs to be included since otherwise he would be alone. That was the whole point of OP's dilemma. She did not want to include him in the maiden side celebration. The core meaning going to both.

I get all that. IMO, when you marry someone, any of their "core family" becomes your "core family". Just because they're a member of your core family doesn't mean they have to be invited to any event. But that doesn't mean they're not "core family".

All that being said, yes, I think he should be invited UNLESS OP's husband feels differently.

 

[LovesTimone]

I would prefer to have time with just my family. I did not have a great relationship with my MIL, she was an unhappy and judgmental person that loved to be the center of attention. I do not enjoy my FIL's company. He takes 20 minutes to answer a yes or no question.

My SIL and her family may or may not be in town. They will stay with my brother and SIL. Aside from that, there is no one else he would spend time with.

If it was just my parents, him, my family and my brother's family, there would not be an issue. But there are 4 other families involved that are not related to each other in any way. They have met, they are friendly but not related and have nothing in common other than my family of 4 and my bother's family of 4.

I think that you should take a step back, and look and ask yourself a few hard questions... and then answer them honestly to yourself...

Are you taking out your feelings about your MIL on your FIL? - maybe if she was unhappy and judgmental he is conditioned to answer in a certain way, thinking about what he said before he answers...

As well a lot of older folks do need time to answer simple questions. As well this could be a side effect of medication, or other unseen health issues, or just he likes to take his time answering... for me personally it seems like such a small thing.

The reason or reasons you do not enjoy your FIL's company... what is it due to?... did something happen between the two of you, was it more because you feel or felt he should have spoken up, or dealt with his wife behavior, or something that happened with your spouse that you might felt was unfair or a slight....

Would someone in the other 4 families mind him being there?... if not there are plenty of people around for him to talk to... finding something to talk about or have in common is just a simple thing...wow the turkey is good, what's your favorite part, do you say stuffing or dressing, what about that football game, wow look at all the stuff on sale for black friday ..... small talk is easy peasy...

As well ... think of your Husband and how this might effect him, he did just lose his mom, good or bad it was still his mom. I would think that having his dad there would be comforting to your DH... during this time...

How is this going to effect your relationship with your brother and sister in law?

Showing your kids how they should treat someone... even with the history with your mother in law... you are leading by example trust me they know what has been going on are watching you and how you handle things like this...

As well if that were your husband, and you were gone.... how would you want him to be treated by your kids spouse?... then reverse the scenario if you had lost your husband... how would you want your kids spouse's to treat you?

For me personally I would let him come and make him feel welcomed, showing him love and respect will go along way. I know that being the bigger person, and letting go of the past is healing for everyone including you! ... maybe the two of you can get on better ground and start a new relationship, maybe not buddies something maybe friends as you both love someone important to you both...... As well by extending this invitation, it might show him that his wife was wrong ( just saying) .... it might not work out, at least you know that you have tired.

Wishing you joy and happiness this holiday season...

 

[Searc]

How much more could one person add to the group? I'm not crazy about my MIL either. She treats me horribly & isn't much nicer to DS. If she was anyone but my DH's mother, I'd never speak to her again. Alas, she is his mother, so she's part of my family. She's always welcome here.

I pray that I don't have a DIL that is not an extended family oriented person. No one will ever convince me that it's okay to put my feelings before the feelings of my family. If that is their hope , they're wasting their time. It's not all about me. Unfortunately, there are too many people who think it's all about them. (FTR, I'm not saying the OP is one of those people, because I don't know her.)

A bit of a side step, but why do you (and your husband) allow someone in your home that treats you and your son horribly? I'm over the "family is always welcome here" school of thought. If you're a horrible human being, I don't care if you're family, you are not welcome in my home. If you treat my spouse or children horribly, then hell no, you are not welcome in my home. I can overlook (barely) someone treating me badly, but not my spouse or child.

 

[Cindy's Mom]

People change - maybe FIL was not a pleasant person because of the circumstances he was facing on a daily basis. I think he needs/should be invited and offered a huge welcome to the dinner.

 

[cabanafrau]

I did ask for opinions and I appreciate the comments. I just needed to get out of my own head.

I do not have a bad relationship with my father in law. He is a nice person and very kind. It just rambles on and tries my patience.

(My MIL was not, she quite horrible. I called her out on not being an authentic person once and she readily admitted to behaving differently with different people b/c she becomes what each person needed. Umm, what???)

What it boils down to is that I would never even consider excluding someone else. Even family dogs are welcome at our house.

Honest opinion, your last two lines come across as unreasonably cruel, particularly given the circumstances.

 

[wvjules]

People change - maybe FIL was not a pleasant person because of the circumstances he was facing on a daily basis. I think he needs/should be invited and offered a huge welcome to the dinner.

FIL is not "not pleasant". OP says he is pleasant, just a bit chatty.

 

[PRINCESS Sweet Pea]

I am confused as well. She came here saying "I do not want him at EVERYTHING". A big family holiday or holidays are not everything. It is a few days out of the year. I am big on not excluding people. Just to behonest, if feels a little bit like a middle school mean girl??? And, then we have this thing with playing nice, and well, since I have to, I will invite him. Seems kind of like playing nice. And, it sounds kind of like how she describes her MIL who passed away, as not being genuine and playing different ways to different people. It is all just too confusing!

 

[skyblue17]

I think people are being a little unnecessarily harsh on OP here.

Her family is already more intertwined than is typical, since her sibling has the same FIL. For example, if you have two siblings and all three of you are married, you have your own in-laws, and when you go to your sister's house for your nephew's birthday, her in-laws are there and when you go to your brother's house for your niece's birthday, his in-laws are there. There's no such separation here, which I think can be a little challenging if personalities don't always jive or have a tendency to cause tension even at fun events like parties and gatherings.

It certainly isn't unreasonable to want to spend time with your own close family and prioritize holiday social time with those relatives, especially if you don't see them often. This is OP's parents, aunts/uncles, nieces/nephews, etc. that aren't related to her father-in-law at all. If there's been a history of causing tension or pulling focus or simply making OP feel stressed because she's in the middle and feels like she needs to navigate or balance out the situation, it's okay to honestly wish that now and then, she didn't have to handle that situation. It's okay to want to create a relaxing and enjoyable experience for yourself, and it's not like she's suggesting never including FIL in anything. It's just saying "hey, I wanna be able to talk to my mom about this or that without FIL overhearing and sharing his take at his 4th holiday event in a 30 days."

She's being honest, and she's realized what's best to do, but come on now.

 

[Searc]

I think people are being a little unnecessarily harsh on OP here.

Her family is already more intertwined than is typical, since her sibling has the same FIL. For example, if you have two siblings and all three of you are married, you have your own in-laws, and when you go to your sister's house for your nephew's birthday, her in-laws are there and when you go to your brother's house for your niece's birthday, his in-laws are there. There's no such separation here, which I think can be a little challenging if personalities don't always jive or have a tendency to cause tension even at fun events like parties and gatherings.

It certainly isn't unreasonable to want to spend time with your own close family and prioritize holiday social time with those relatives, especially if you don't see them often. This is OP's parents, aunts/uncles, nieces/nephews, etc. that aren't related to her father-in-law at all. If there's been a history of causing tension or pulling focus or simply making OP feel stressed because she's in the middle and feels like she needs to navigate or balance out the situation, it's okay to honestly wish that now and then, she didn't have to handle that situation. It's okay to want to create a relaxing and enjoyable experience for yourself, and it's not like she's suggesting never including FIL in anything. It's just saying "hey, I wanna be able to talk to my mom about this or that without FIL overhearing and sharing his take at his 4th holiday event in a 30 days."

She's being honest, and she's realized what's best to do, but come on now.

 

[Hikergirl]

I don't think you are obligated to invite him because he now lives with your brother and SIL.
I think inviting him is a nice gesture, but since he will be included in the celebration with his side of the family on the actual holidays, I don't think it is necessary for him to be at your "after" parties.

 

[tzolkin]

A bit of a side step, but why do you (and your husband) allow someone in your home that treats you and your son horribly? I'm over the "family is always welcome here" school of thought. If you're a horrible human being, I don't care if you're family, you are not welcome in my home. If you treat my spouse or children horribly, then hell no, you are not welcome in my home. I can overlook (barely) someone treating me badly, but not my spouse or child.

I was thinking the same thing. My MIL is a manipulative, bitter, miserable person. She has been mentally abusive to my husband for his entire life and she has been awful to me as well. I always welcomed her into our home (she would stay with us 3-4 times per year and even went on a few trips with us) because my husband was really all the family she had and she did adore her grandchildren. But, during one visit she was particularly awful to me, inexcusably rude to my parents, and started extending her normal (passive aggressive, snarky) behavior to the kids. DH called her out on it and we have now not seen her in six years.

We feel heartbroken for her on what she's missing out on and we still hold out hope to eventually salvage the relationship but she has not been receptive to fixing anything. DH does speak to her on the phone regularly because he doesn't want her to be alone, but he is just not willing to allow her to make our kids feel the same way that he has been made to feel his entire life. I would love the kids to be able to have a relationship with their grandmother, but I don't see how the benefits outweigh the cost of being treated poorly and manipulated by someone they love and watching their parents be insulted and hurt whenever she is in our home. We just can't justify allowing our kids to be exposed to that even if it is family.

 

[DisneyKoyote]

I get what you mean... sometimes you just want to spend time with a certain set of people. Say you do invite your FIL this year- it'll set the precedent that he comes every year after (cause it'd be weird to suddenly tell him he can't come in the future). What if he gets re-married? Will his new wife start coming too every year? What if his new family has kids? Do they all get invites? Don't have a real answer for you but I can see the dilemma...
Off topic- Had a similar experience regarding "invites" but with friends. Had a close group of friends in school- at some point we ended up all working in the same city. I asked if we wanted to meet up, immediately one of the guys wanted to bring his SO. We told him that we prefer if his SO didn't come to this one as we rarely have reunions, but she would be free to join future hangouts. That didnt sit well with his SO so now he is banned from hanging with us. They just got married recently and me/the other ppl in the group who agreed with me were not invited lolll

 

[3threebabies]

OP, very tricky situation with multiple complicated relationships. I would expect that I and DH decide who is invited to celebrations at my house, just as others decide who is and isn’t invited to their house. However, I cannot imagine not including a household member in an invitation when everyone else in household is invited to celebrate at my place.

On the other hand, if there is a specific reason said person is not allowed in my home for any reason, it would not matter where they lived. Other posters have listed several instances where even family is not welcome. Your FIL does not seem to fit this requirement. As an alternative scenario, if you didn’t care for your brother’s high school or college age dependent child, would you still invite them for the holidays? I would expect your answer to be the affirmative as you knew all along that inviting FIL was the appropriate choice for your situation.

OP, I hope everyone on both sides of your family is able to enjoy the holidays. This will be a difficult season for many you love.

 

[Mermaid02]

I'm glad you are going to include him. You will be glad you did. I think you will have a better time knowing he has been included and he isn't alone and he will feel better being around a big loving family.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

A bit of a side step, but why do you (and your husband) allow someone in your home that treats you and your son horribly? I'm over the "family is always welcome here" school of thought. If you're a horrible human being, I don't care if you're family, you are not welcome in my home. If you treat my spouse or children horribly, then hell no, you are not welcome in my home. I can overlook (barely) someone treating me badly, but not my spouse or child.

As I said earlier, it's not all about me. I wouldn't have allowed my DH to ban my parents from our home, if they didn't get along. I'm not going to ban his. Our feelings on things like this may come down to the way we were raised. I was raised by parents who believed in family first. That will never change for me. I can't imagine anything that would make me give up on my family.

As for the way she treats DS & me, she takes constant shots at me, every time we're out of DH's earshot. He used to go out with his Dad to talk & leave me with his Mom. Over the years, we learned he couldn't do that. She's on her best behavior as long as he's there, so I spend as little solo time with her as possible. A few years ago, he finally decided he'd had enough & had a serious conversation with her about the way she treats DS & me. She's been a bit better, but she still slips up at times. At least, it's an improvement. She's not nearly as bad to DS. She knows I wouldn't put up with her treating him the way she treats me. She's just generally apathetic toward him. He could be anybody's grandson as far as she's concerned. Of course, that hurt him, when he was young. After FIL passed away, she started trying to develop some type of relationship with him. Sadly, he's now an adult & it's too late for that. He still visits her & likes the idea of her finally being a grandmother, but he'll never have a bond with her. To me, that's the saddest part of the whole situation. I'm not sure why she changed toward DS, after FIL died. FIL wasn't the problem. He was a great FIL & grandfather.

 

[disykat]

Although we've established he needs to be invited in this case since he is now part of brother's household, I see why OP wouldn't want him at everything. I love my parents but wouldn't want them at my husband's family's celebrations. Nor would I want husband's at mine. Obviously there are times when we are all together, like weddings and big birthday bashes. But in general, the two "sides" have separate holiday celebrations. I don't understand why some people don't "get" this?

As for the extended family debate ... I consider anyone that doesn't live in the same household extended family. One of my sons just got married and she is his primary family now. I'll always be his mom, but no longer in an "always his emergency contact or on the same insurance policy" kind of way.