Is Toy Story Land underperforming?

[jkh36619]

Disney doesn't "need" TSL to peform like Pandora. SWGE will do that. TSL is there simply to give people something else to do (aka distribute crowds) once SWGE opens. Just like Frozen was added to get young kids to Epcot, TSL is there to draw those families to DHS .. so now there won't be a skippable park. As someone who has gone with young kids, (4 or under) .. we've always skipped a park. (Usually Epcot - and our trips to DHS were half-days or less).

That was the problem with Pandora .. it is the ONLY new thing there so everyone flocks to it, creating those crazy crowds for a year plus now. If they had redone the awful area known as DinoLand, USA with an immersive area and two new rides, that would have helped balance out Pandora a bit.

Absolutely correct. Regardless of the expectations or performances, Disney HAD to have something open prior to SWGE. They will need MMRR in operation as well and probably more... SWGE is going to be nuts

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

i I know MK is more crowded and all that but still unexpected to me that 7DMT would have a 25 minute longer wait that the new coaster aimed at similar audiences (and one that is arguably getting better reviews as a coaster/ride)

This, exactly. This to me is the most telling thing.

I'm not sure that TSL exists just to balance out SWGE. I mean, if it can't pull people out of MK when it's brand new, how is it going to pull people out of GE? Maybe it's something to do for people who don't like SW or have kids too little for the GE rides. But I'm not sure it's really a big factor. People are going to go for GE or not. I think Jedi training and ST (for however long that lasts) are going to be the things that give younger brothers and sisters something to do when the rest of the SW family is in GE.

 

[DebbieB]

I'll reserve judgement, but it looks like a toddler ride to me. 7DMT is a toddler ride.

I rode it 3 times last week, I wouldn’t call it a toddler ride. Most of the people in line were adults. I think it loads faster than 7DMT. They have 3 trains on the track at one time vs 2 on 7DMT.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I rode it 3 times last week, I wouldn’t call it a toddler ride. Most of the people in line were adults. I think it loads faster than 7DMT. They have 3 trains on the track at one time vs 2 on 7DMT.

off topic..but i love your avatar....i had that pin on my backpack for years with a locking pin back, on our trip last summer my bag got caught on something and i didn't notice to much later in the day that the pin ripped off.

I don't think they sale those anymore lol.

 

[Phicinfan]

At some point, when the construction projects are complete in all of the parks, we will see some normalcy returned again with a more even distribution of guests in the 3 parks not named Magic Kingdom. Epcot and DHS have been so stripped for so long that they are shadows now. I really look forward to seeing what WDW looks like in 3-4 years.

I am going to disagree with you here...
Yes, they are making much needed additions to EPCOT and to DHS. I also think the addition of SW:GE will pull a huge crowd. But we also thought this with Pandora, and it has...but not at the ease of MK.

Time to face facts, MK IS the main draw at WDW, and will remain so, AND as they are adding to MK with Tron, and some other future additions(still rumors of plussing Jungle Cruise, Theater may come back at some point....) it will only remain that crowded.

I don't think what is added to EPCOT will make a dent - not that its not needed, it is, but I think that is solely driven due to bad consumer comments and lagging attendance. Rat, GotG roller coaster and some UK dark ride won't make that big effect IMO.

My question is, has Disney learned? They can't just stop with all this for 50th and such....they need a real long term plan to expand DHS post these two new land additions( still rumor of an E ticket ride added later.... shanghai tech Indy???) and doing more in EPCOT - more Pavilions not just Brazil add. Upgrade of land, Sea and Imagination - and some add in WoL are all needed.

But in the end, MK will still be the main draw.

 

[ChipnDale79]

But in the end, MK will still be the main draw.

I can't tell you how many times i've heard from non disney nerds (sorry I'm one and thats the best term i could come up for most of us here haha) "we're just going to magic kingdom on our 3 day stay, we are not doing the other stuff."

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I am going to disagree with you here...
Yes, they are making much needed additions to EPCOT and to DHS. I also think the addition of SW:GE will pull a huge crowd. But we also thought this with Pandora, and it has...but not at the ease of MK.

Time to face facts, MK IS the main draw at WDW, and will remain so, AND as they are adding to MK with Tron, and some other future additions(still rumors of plussing Jungle Cruise, Theater may come back at some point....) it will only remain that crowded.

I don't think what is added to EPCOT will make a dent - not that its not needed, it is, but I think that is solely driven due to bad consumer comments and lagging attendance. Rat, GotG roller coaster and some UK dark ride won't make that big effect IMO.

My question is, has Disney learned? They can't just stop with all this for 50th and such....they need a real long term plan to expand DHS post these two new land additions( still rumor of an E ticket ride added later.... shanghai tech Indy???) and doing more in EPCOT - more Pavilions not just Brazil add. Upgrade of land, Sea and Imagination - and some add in WoL are all needed.

But in the end, MK will still be the main draw.

I always think when people say "Disney needs to build a 5th gate!" that the only thing that would be truly effective would be if they built at 2nd Magic Kingdom

Of if they built somewhere else in the country with another "Castle park"

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I can't tell you how many times i've heard from non disney nerds (sorry I'm one and thats the best term i could come up for most of us here haha) "we're just going to magic kingdom on our 3 day stay, we are not doing the other stuff."

or even if not just MK, it's "we have 3 days and are doing 2 at MK and one at AK" or something like that... no one ever skips MK and the first park people will do 2 days at is MK

now, maybe with Galaxy's Edge you will see some people come down just for that - but I also bet many of the people that have never done Disney and are coming for that will at least say "well, while I am here might at least check out Magic Kingdom"

 

[Phicinfan]

I always think when people say "Disney needs to build a 5th gate!" that the only thing that would be truly effective would be if they built at 2nd Magic Kingdom

Of if they built somewhere else in the country with another "Castle park"

I too wonder what the real value of a 5th gate at WDW would bring. They have added so much, and STILL folks focus on MK.

I agree, I would love to see them expand to another site in the States, with another DL or MK park, and see what that does to help attendance.

 

[STLstone]

I too wonder what the real value of a 5th gate at WDW would bring. They have added so much, and STILL folks focus on MK.

I agree, I would love to see them expand to another site in the States, with another DL or MK park, and see what that does to help attendance.

I may have posted this before, but I think they could build somewhere in the midwest, or north and make it an indoor park.

Most of the rides are indoors, as it is. It would just be a matter of covering the walkways. The Mall of America has an indoor amusement park, already. So it can be done.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I may have posted this before, but I think they could build somewhere in the midwest, or north and make it an indoor park.

Most of the rides are indoors, as it is. It would just be a matter of covering the walkways. The Mall of America has an indoor amusement park, already. So it can be done.

And there are areas that aren't too, too bad in the winter - maybe wouldn't have to close that often ... or maybe have some areas close but others be fully enclosed

I think if you had another Castle park - with a different castle (I vote for Rapunzel's) and then sort of take some of the best items from WDW and DLR and the foreign parks and a few new ones and you could have a really solid park

Then do something unique with a 2nd gate (heck, if on the other side of the Mississippi they could use more of the Marvel properties, maybe do that and Star Wars and other Super Heroes and that is the theme) and a few hotels and it could be really attractive to people

 

[nkosiek]

And there are areas that aren't too, too bad in the winter - maybe wouldn't have to close that often ... or maybe have some areas close but others be fully enclosed

I think if you had another Castle park - with a different castle (I vote for Rapunzel's) and then sort of take some of the best items from WDW and DLR and the foreign parks and a few new ones and you could have a really solid park

Then do something unique with a 2nd gate (heck, if on the other side of the Mississippi they could use more of the Marvel properties, maybe do that and Star Wars and other Super Heroes and that is the theme) and a few hotels and it could be really attractive to people

But then is that park cannabalizing their numbers from DL and MK? I mean the company's two main sources of profit are parks and movoes and frankly parks does better. Qould building a 3rd US gate hurt the golden goose?

 

[Happyinwonerland]

I may have posted this before, but I think they could build somewhere in the midwest, or north and make it an indoor park.

Most of the rides are indoors, as it is. It would just be a matter of covering the walkways. The Mall of America has an indoor amusement park, already. So it can be done.

They built Disney parks in Paris, Shanghai, and Tokyo, all of which have cold, lightly snowy /wet winters. I think as long as they didn't go too far north, they could build a 3rd U.S. park somewhere in the middle of the country, maybe Texas area. The question is, do they need to? The parks seem to be doing just fine as is, would a 3rd really bring in more revenue? I'm happy with what we have, just keep improving and adding on.

 

[jknezek]

I may have posted this before, but I think they could build somewhere in the midwest, or north and make it an indoor park.

Most of the rides are indoors, as it is. It would just be a matter of covering the walkways. The Mall of America has an indoor amusement park, already. So it can be done.

The indoor amusement park at Mall of America is about 7 acres I believe. The whole mall is 90 acres. Magic Kingdom, the smallest of the WDW parks, is 107 acres by itself. The smallest Disney park is Walt Disney Studios Paris at 62 acres. Building an indoor theme park, the size of a Disney park, would be a monumental undertaking. Personally I think south Texas is the only option for another American Disney park. There is no way Disney buys less than 1000 acres to build a new park. Disneyland Paris has something like 4800 acres, and Shanghai is right around 1000 acres. They will never repeat the issue of DLR and space and allowing hotel and restaurant revenue to get away by allowing easy offsite hotels and restaurants to spring up. I also don't believe they will build a seasonal park. People will travel for Disney. They know this. Building a park in a seasonal area makes no sense.

Personally I don't think they will build another theme park complex in the U.S. I think there is little upside for the cost. Air travel in this country is too cheap to make it necessary.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

But then is that park cannabalizing their numbers from DL and MK? I mean the company's two main sources of profit are parks and movoes and frankly parks does better. Qould building a 3rd US gate hurt the golden goose?

well, the point was that no matter what they build at the other parks at WDW or even if they build a 5th gate, the crowds come to Magic Kingdom .... so the conversation was what could help with the crowd levels there - with the idea being, well, build another Magic Kingdom

Granted, I don't know if Disney is worried about/cares about the crowd levels - so more just fantasy / armchair imagineering from a guest experience perspective

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I am going to disagree with you here...
Yes, they are making much needed additions to EPCOT and to DHS. I also think the addition of SW:GE will pull a huge crowd. But we also thought this with Pandora, and it has...but not at the ease of MK.

Time to face facts, MK IS the main draw at WDW, and will remain so, AND as they are adding to MK with Tron, and some other future additions(still rumors of plussing Jungle Cruise, Theater may come back at some point....) it will only remain that crowded.

I don't think what is added to EPCOT will make a dent - not that its not needed, it is, but I think that is solely driven due to bad consumer comments and lagging attendance. Rat, GotG roller coaster and some UK dark ride won't make that big effect IMO.

My question is, has Disney learned? They can't just stop with all this for 50th and such....they need a real long term plan to expand DHS post these two new land additions( still rumor of an E ticket ride added later.... shanghai tech Indy???) and doing more in EPCOT - more Pavilions not just Brazil add. Upgrade of land, Sea and Imagination - and some add in WoL are all needed.

But in the end, MK will still be the main draw.

This is certainly true, but it is more true now (and over the last 4+ years) than ever before. The other WDW gates generally had patronage that was about 60-65 percent that of MK. In 2015, for example, they were only about half of MK. We just need it to get back to where it was (because MK has so many more attractions) to achieve the normalcy that I was talking about.

MK will likely always be the top draw (though DHS will fight for supremacy for a while when Star Wars opens). But the other parks are at an all time low as competitors with MK. AK has seen its numbers rise since the opening of Pandora. DHS will do the same by the end of the year next year. Epcot is a few years further behind, but anything there will help.

 

[SCSteve]

Right now, Wednesday, July 11, 11:37 AM, slinky dog has a 90 minute wait. I would not call this under performing.

 

[rteetz]

Right now, Wednesday, July 11, 11:37 AM, slinky dog has a 90 minute wait. I would not call this under performing.

Yes but waits are still fluctuating quite a bit.

Flight of Passage is at 150 and is consistent there.

I also will say looking at one specific minute of a wait time throughout the day doesn't really tell us whether its underperforming or not. We would need wait time data over several days/weeks and well as attendance in the park since it has opened.

 

[Aron1012]

Yes but waits are still fluctuating quite a bit.

Flight of Passage is at 150 and is consistent there.

I also will say looking at one specific minute of a wait time throughout the day doesn't really tell us whether its underperforming or not. We would need wait time data over several days/weeks and well as attendance in the park since it has opened.

Agree and not to mention RnR has an 85 min wait right now. The same RnR that was moved down to the 2nd tier in FPs. I have been surprised the wait times have been relatively short for a ride that hasn't even been open 2 weeks yet. FoP was consistently running 3 hrs plus when we were there in Oct. That was 4 months+ after it opened! I get that this ride isn't FoP but thought it would take at least a month for the new to wear off.

I really thought the later opening of TSL was big factor in park attendance being fairly light in June, but so far that doesn't seem like the case. Will be very curious to see what the actual attendance numbers say.

 

[tlmadden73]

Were you able to make a full day of it pre-TSL or is Toy Story Land what put you over the top for making the day worth it?

With little kids? Yes.

When my son was 3 .. (and his cousins were 2 and 4) we were there the entire day. This was in 2014 .. and the back part of the park was still open (but the Backlot Tour was closed).
They had some extra Frozen attractions there that summer, but without doing Tower of Terror or Great Movie Ride, or Indiana Jones .. we had a fun-filled day from RD to about 7:30 PM .. between rides, shows, shopping, meet and greets, character meals, playgrounds, dance parties.
I even was able to get an early evening Fast Pass for RnRC and we ended our day there because my son wasn't interested in seeing Fantasmic (probably a good thing .. that would have been a late night for a 3-year old). There was no Launch Bay yet, but the Honey I Shrunk the Playground was still there to spend 20-30 minutes in during the afternoon.

I can't tell you how many times i've heard from non disney nerds (sorry I'm one and thats the best term i could come up for most of us here haha) "we're just going to magic kingdom on our 3 day stay, we are not doing the other stuff."

My sister is going for a "once in a lifetime trip"(her husband's decision .. not hers .. heh) in early 2019. They are planning on a budget and are only planning on 2-3 park days .. two of which probably will be MK (and if not, will be heavily recommended to that by me) --- but .. because of Star Wars stuff (pre SWGE) and Toy Story Land .. their second park will definitely be DHS. So DHS, because of TSL, is a draw for some families over the other two parks that just (on the surface) don't offer much for 0-7 year olds.

AK is often seen as a really expensive "zoo" with a few rides.
Epcot is often seen as a giant science center that is more appropriate for older children (especially since two of the big rides there have big height requirements) or a giant, and boring (for kids), food/shopping venue (World Showcase) with a single ride (Frozen).

That is the perception I get from non-Disney nerds. .not the reality as we all know.