Legendary Disney Imagineer Joe Rohde Retiring

[Disneytrippin']

2020 just keeps getting better and better. What's next Christmas?

 

[andyman8]

Many of us thought the same of Epcot and MGM.

I’ve been around to see the various iterations of both parks, and I’m not sure everyone agrees with that take. MGM, for example, had no choice but to pivot. The whole business model of the park/studio was predicted on Florida becoming the next Hollywood, which just never materialized the way Disney had hoped. Disney-MGM Studios just never saw the production traffic they had expected, and so without that key component, the bottom kind of fell out of the project. In a way, the park’s premise was moot. What’s the point of having tours of soundstages that are never utilized? As the attendance numbers proved, Guests weren’t interested in that. A similar situation happened over at USF, and while they’ve tried to at least maintain some of their soundstage facilities, the park at this point is just a theme park with no real tangible connection to production. So both parks pivoted to focusing on another element of the Hollywood/studios theming and celebrating the movies themselves. Am I in love with the current iteration of DHS? Not totally but the original plan for the park was predicated on an ambitious premise that never materialized. As some folks on here love to remind everyone, it’s a business. There wasn’t some nefarious goal of subverting or undermining the park. If the studio concept wasn’t working (and it wasn’t because there wasn’t a lot of production actually happening after a few years), they had to make a change. And it’s worth noting that MGM had plenty of slapped-together last-minute IP when it opened. Roger Rabbit (Disney’s “hot” IP at that time) was everywhere, even in places where he didn’t really fit in. They literally slapped his footprints all over the park. Much like many golden ages, the “golden” age of WDW theming/park values wasn’t as “golden” as most remember it.

My personal belief is that Joe Rohde’s biggest talent was seeing something for more than what everyone else saw it being. For example, most of the general public see a theme park and see polyester, a vehicle to share cute characters and tell simple child-oriented stories. He saw a place to tell different kinds of stories through different details, stories about real humans and real struggles and tackle real questions. Not many think of a theme park as a place to tackle politics, yet there are politics woven into the fabric of several of DAK’s lands, and most Guests never even realize it. And he uses that attention to detail to give these unconventional settings (a small mountainside poverty-stricken village, for example) a certain whimsy that makes the message even more captivating. That’s not easily removed or overridden, even by some of the more myopic forces within TWDC. When FotLK moved to Harambe, it fit in, despite being an IP, because its exterior not only fit in with but also contributed to the story of the land. And, unlike Epcot 1.0 or MGM, it works. It resonates with people. People — even those not inclined to “enjoy” a theme park — appreciate it.

Another example is Aulani. Most people see a luxury resort in Hawaii as a concrete building whose trade is high-end amenities and service. Aulani is more than that. Its trade is Hawaiian heritage and culture. The whole hotel is a story of the place it inhabits. That’s what separates it from its competitors (who might even be able to offer a more traditionally “luxurious” hotel stay), and if works. That’s not something you can easily remove from it because it’s so woven into the fabric of the structure.

Even if Disney were to move forward with some sort of Zootopia addition to DAK (which I don’t think is happening anytime soon for many reasons, especially given that we’re about to enter another long period of no/limited development after ‘22), I don’t think A) Rohde would’ve successfully stopped it and B) that it would really interfere with the park’s message and theming anymore than Camp Minnie-Mickey or the Jammin’ Jungle parade did. I see no immediate reason why Disney would deviate too far from the park’s core theme.

 

[rteetz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1331119470878683137

 

[The Pho]

I’ve been around to see the various iterations of both parks, and I’m not sure everyone agrees with that take. MGM, for example, had no choice but to pivot. The whole business model of the park/studio was predicted on Florida becoming the next Hollywood, which just never materialized the way Disney had hoped. Disney-MGM Studios just never saw the production traffic they had expected, and so without that key component, the bottom kind of fell out of the project. In a way, the park’s premise was moot. What’s the point of having tours of soundstages that are never utilized? As the attendance numbers proved, Guests weren’t interested in that. A similar situation happened over at USF, and while they’ve tried to at least maintain some of their soundstage facilities, the park at this point is just a theme park with no real tangible connection to production. So both parks pivoted to focusing on another element of the Hollywood/studios theming and celebrating the movies themselves. Am I in love with the current iteration of DHS? Not totally but the original plan for the park was predicated on an ambitious premise that never materialized. As some folks on here love to remind everyone, it’s a business. There wasn’t some nefarious goal of subverting or undermining the park. If the studio concept wasn’t working (and it wasn’t because there wasn’t a lot of production actually happening after a few years), they had to make a change. And it’s worth noting that MGM had plenty of slapped-together last-minute IP when it opened. Roger Rabbit (Disney’s “hot” IP at that time) was everywhere, even in places where he didn’t really fit in. They literally slapped his footprints all over the park. Much like many golden ages, the “golden” age of WDW theming/park values wasn’t as “golden” as most remember it.

My point wasn’t really against parks having to change. Disney absolutely had little choice in MGM no longer being an active studio. I was more pointing at how MGM and Epcot were both generally cohesively themed with most attractions working towards that. Now both parks are just a collection of attractions with less focus. It’s not a nefarious change, and not one that everyone will disagree with, it’s just the easier one.

My personal belief is that Joe Rohde’s biggest talent was seeing something for more than what everyone else saw it being. For example, most of the general public see a theme park and see polyester, a vehicle to share cute characters and tell simple child-oriented stories. He saw a place to tell different kinds of stories through different details, stories about real humans and real struggles and tackle real questions. Not many think of a theme park as a place to tackle politics, yet there are politics woven into the fabric of several of DAK’s lands, and most Guests never even realize it. And he uses that attention to detail to give these unconventional settings (a small mountainside poverty-stricken village, for example) a certain whimsy that makes the message even more captivating. That’s not easily removed or overridden, even by some of the more myopic forces within TWDC. When FotLK moved to Harambe, it fit in, despite being an IP, because its exterior not only fit in with but also contributed to the story of the land. And, unlike Epcot 1.0 or MGM, it works. It resonates with people. People — even those not inclined to “enjoy” a theme park — appreciate it.

Yes Rohde, and most of the greatest Imagineers and park designers view parks as something more than the collection of rides you find elsewhere. They could be viewed as works of art through the right lens. And people frequently look at you like you’re crazy when you say things like that. IP just has to handled correctly like Rohde was usually able to, to actually make it work with a park’s theme. And I can’t say these parks didn’t resonate with people. Both Epcot and MGM have continuously been among the most popular parks on the planet for the entirety of their existence. MGM’s 1996-1997 attendance peak wasn’t surpassed by Hollywood Studios until 2015. Universal didn’t pass this until 2018.

Even if Disney were to move forward with some sort of Zootopia addition to DAK (which I don’t think is happening anytime soon for many reasons, especially given that we’re about to enter another long period of no/limited development after ‘22), I don’t think A) Rohde would’ve successfully stopped it and B) that it would really interfere with the park’s message and theming anymore than Camp Minnie-Mickey or the Jammin’ Jungle parade did. I see no immediate reason why Disney would deviate too far from the park’s core theme.

Zootopia would be a drastic shift from the park’s core theme, unless they made considerable changes to the source material. Rohde himself has been quite clear about why it has no place in the park. It fits in Animal Kingdom just as much as Victorian London. Now it wouldn’t push the park into being a failure but it would be the final shift away from fully themed parks for Disney.

 

[ford91exploder]

Good grief.

Examples of these much worse people please.

As for creatives if that was the case Iger would’ve driven Rohde out and many others in one of the other previous layoffs or restructurings.

Iger has allowed plenty “creatives” legend status.

Yes he did but only if they had no institutional power, the exception being Tony Baxter but the poisonous looks during Baxter’s ceremony told the story.

In Iger you have a executive who hates the creative process because it involves risk, but Ironically is CEO of a company built on the creative process.

Remember Iger crowing a few months ago crowing about how he ‘de-risked’ the filmmaking process. Iger’s view is Disney is a ‘manager’ of purchased IP. In Iger’s mind all he needs to do is to buy popular IP’s and market them.

This is not the Disney/Pixar of the multiplane camera, groundbreaking CGI tech. And story above all. Todays Disney is sabremetrics with IP instead of baseball players and speaks to an essentially soulless organization.

 

[rteetz]

Yes he did but only if they had no institutional power, the exception being Tony Baxter but the poisonous looks during Baxter’s ceremony told the story.

In Iger you have a executive who hates the creative process because it involves risk, but Ironically is CEO of a company built on the creative process.

Remember Iger crowing a few months ago crowing about how he ‘de-risked’ the filmmaking process. Iger’s view is Disney is a ‘manager’ of purchased IP. In Iger’s mind all he needs to do is to buy popular IP’s and market them.

This is not the Disney/Pixar of the multiplane camera, groundbreaking CGI tech. And story above all. Todays Disney is sabremetrics with IP instead of baseball players and speaks to an essentially soulless organization.

No examples I see...

 

[Lumpy1106]

People who are complaining about a possible Zootopia land seem to forget there was ever a Mickey Minnie land.

Oh, wait...I see your point. Never mind.

 

[rteetz]

People who are complaining about a possible Zootopia land seem to forget there was ever a Mickey Minnie land.

Oh, wait...I see your point. Never mind.

That land was always intended to be temporary and housed a show and meet and greets. It was never really seen as a full fledged land. Thankfully that was corrected.

 

[Lumpy1106]

That land was always intended to be temporary and housed a show and meet and greets. It was never really seen as a full fledged land. Thankfully that was corrected.

Could the same be said about Dinoland? Hope springs eternal!

 

[rteetz]

Could the same be said about Dinoland? Hope springs eternal!

Yes Dinoland was another sort of budget cut driven area. That land has a very deep story.

 

[NoTime42]

Could the same be said about Dinoland? Hope springs eternal!

The Animal Kingdom sign has always had the silhouettes of animals, a dinosaur and a dragon (animals of the present, past and fantasy).
Camp Minnie Mickey was the temp land that was supposed to be for the dragon.

 

[Eric Smith]

Could the same be said about Dinoland? Hope springs eternal!

Dinoland was always intended to go there. Camp Minnie Mickey was done because they ran out of money and couldn't afford to do Beastly Kingdom. A lot of those ideas became parts of Islands of Adventure although a lot of those have been replaced by Harry Potter at this point.

 

[rteetz]

Dinoland was always intended to go there. Camp Minnie Mickey was done because they ran out of money and couldn't afford to do Beastly Kingdom. A lot of those ideas became parts of Islands of Adventure although a lot of those have been replaced by Harry Potter at this point.

Yes but Dinoland was supposed to be a bit more than what it became again due to budget constraints.

 

[rteetz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1331309646112579588

This clip from the Imagineering story is perfect for a lot of the current events.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Yes but Dinoland was supposed to be a bit more than what it became again due to budget constraints.

A few years ago I heard a potential rumor about dinoland becoming Indiana Jones themed. Obviously not at the moment with budget constraints, but have you heard if that rumor has any legs rteetz? Since Disney has the IP for it. I think it may have been in conjunction with an Indiana Themed hotel if the Star Wars Hotel paired to Galaxy's Edge turns out as a good example.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Yes he did but only if they had no institutional power, the exception being Tony Baxter but the poisonous looks during Baxter’s ceremony told the story.

In Iger you have a executive who hates the creative process because it involves risk, but Ironically is CEO of a company built on the creative process.

Remember Iger crowing a few months ago crowing about how he ‘de-risked’ the filmmaking process. Iger’s view is Disney is a ‘manager’ of purchased IP. In Iger’s mind all he needs to do is to buy popular IP’s and market them.

This is not the Disney/Pixar of the multiplane camera, groundbreaking CGI tech. And story above all. Todays Disney is sabremetrics with IP instead of baseball players and speaks to an essentially soulless organization.

So much hatred in you, Padawan.

I do not know that I agree that Disney is not the same company that believes in long term expenditures with risk. Example - that really friggin cool acrobatics robot. He has not earned them a dime and they have spent millions in his development since he was nothing but a stick with a few joints. I imagine he will eventually pay off, but it's not a small investment and overall cost more to develop and carries more risk than things like the multiplane camera.

Or do you only look at animation advancements? Under Iger, they developed Meander (for Paperman) Denizen, and Hyperion (Big Hero 6) - all pretty big investments and advancements in the technology.

I will say as a Stockholder, DVC Member and all around fan, I have - FOR THE MOST PART - been pleased with the direction Disney has taken in the past 10 years or so. Have there been things I do not agree with? Certainly. Most recently the layoff of the equity actors (which I understand Disney heard the message loud and clear and are looking to bring them back). But overall, I do not agree with your description of Disney as a soulless organization and I do not believe Rhode would has stayed as long as he did if he felt that way either. After all, his net worth is a couple million - he didn't NEED this job for the past 15 years.

 

[rteetz]

A few years ago I heard a potential rumor about dinoland becoming Indiana Jones themed. Obviously not at the moment with budget constraints, but have you heard if that rumor has any legs rteetz? Since Disney has the IP for it. I think it may have been in conjunction with an Indiana Themed hotel if the Star Wars Hotel paired to Galaxy's Edge turns out as a good example.

Yeah that sort of fell off the cliff. I don’t see it happening anytime soon if ever.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Yeah that sort of fell off the cliff. I don’t see it happening anytime soon if ever.

Yeah, I figured not now. I was just wondering if there was ever any truth to it, or if it was just fan made up mouth wagging. Like did anyone at Disney ever look at Dinoland and think about re-theming it to Indiana Jones / archeology or have the only plans been more dinosaur based?

 

[rteetz]

Yeah, I figured not now. I was just wondering if there was ever any truth to it, or if it was just fan made up mouth wagging. Like did anyone at Disney ever look at Dinoland and think about re-theming it to Indiana Jones / archeology or have the only plans been more dinosaur based?

Per good sources there were tie in plans.

 

[DOPEY44]

I hope Disney offers him a International Ambassador for Walt Disney Imagineering position like the one Marty Sklar had. Great talent is hard to find.