Marathon Weekend 2020

rdelar01

Do or Do Not...There is No Try
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
I typically run first thing in the morning. I do a GU gel with caffeine about 15 minutes prior to the run, followed by about 4 ounces of coconut water. Following that, I do about 5 Sport Beans every 6 miles and a half bottle of Gatorade around Mile 10. Even typing this out, it seems haphazard and insufficient...
The good thing you are finding out what works/doesn't work before the actual race. I would try alternating water with Gatorade until you get the right ratio that sits better with you. You might be ingesting too much sugar with the beans and the Gatorade.

I also did 18 this weekend and started to experiment with fuel. Being in Miami, I also do my long runs in the morning, before it gets too hot. I start with toast and peanut butter with water (about 30-40 minutes before starting to run). I then did a GU (with Caffeine) at the end of every 4 miles. I washed it all down with water only. I then sipped on Gatorade on the drive home.

I'm sure there are many other fueling strategies and we have a few more weeks to fine tune!
 

rdelar01

Do or Do Not...There is No Try
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
The known variables are the run duration, walk duration, and average pace. The unknowns are the run speed and walking speed. So I used several different walking speeds as inputs to generate the possible run speeds being used. Most people walk around a 16-17 min/mile. But I know people who walk faster and slower. I personally walk at a 19-20 min/mile pace normally.

So for a 4:30 M runner, a 8:52-9:50 min/mile is roughly 4k to 20k race pace for 90 sec with a 30 second rest. Or something like 262m (0.163 miles) intervals at 4k to 20k pace. Because of the shorter ratio vs the 3:40/3:50 groups above, the walking pace actually used by the pacers becomes more important as to what the actual run pace would end up being. If they walk slower, then it dramatically increases the necessary run pace.

Six intervals gets you to 0.978 miles.
Thanks for doing this. It helps to set my expectations on what pace I need to run / walk at. Luckily the 8:52-9:50 min/mile pace is right in my "wheel-house".
 

GuinnessRunner

Earning My Ears
Joined
May 16, 2018
SAFD:

DATW training is going stellar. Really feel I am ahead of plan there and could push for a PR.

Probably not coincidentally, Dopey training is going just ok. After finishing MCM, my coach is having me take a different approach in getting ready for Dopey where it's more about the total weekly miles with less focus on the long run distance. After doing two 20-milers getting ready for MCM, having my longest run scheduled at 18 has me a bit worried, but I am trusting the plan. Goal for the weekend is to finish uninjured and smiling, so I guess I am on track and if not then DATW should fix that too.
 
  • Sleepless Knight

    Jedi Knight Seeking His Jedi Princess
    Joined
    May 15, 2008
    SAFD: Training goes for me. The physical part is going just fine more or less. The mental part is proving to be more interesting this time out. For Dopey #1, I felt confident that consistency in following my @DopeyBadger plan would get me across the finish line. Perhaps ignorance was bliss in those days. This time out, I'm still striving for consistency in following the plan, but am constantly wondering why I signed up for this. Maybe because this time I know what I'm getting myself into and I've managed to forget all the fun I had during the marathon itself?

    I typically run first thing in the morning. I do a GU gel with caffeine about 15 minutes prior to the run, followed by about 4 ounces of coconut water. Following that, I do about 5 Sport Beans every 6 miles and a half bottle of Gatorade around Mile 10. Even typing this out, it seems haphazard and insufficient...
    I had been underfueling for years in all the half marathons I had run. But I chalked up that minor energy fade to being tired at the end of a long run. Which is normal. However, when I brought that strategy to marathon training, I really began to feel the deficit. Once I learned how much fuel I should be taking in, I then had to experiment to discover the best combination for taking that fuel in. In my case, sport beans in the quantity I needed left me feeling a bit off in my stomach for a few minutes. I tried huma gels and found that they worked much better for me. So the good news here is that you're learning about this now with plenty of time to figure out what works best for you before race day.
     

    flav

    Loving My Ears
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2014
    while the run itself was great, I felt incredibly nauseated about 15 minutes following the run.
    Just my own thoughts and experience, nothing professional here:
    - Did you do a proper cool down? I.e walk between the end of the run and the 15 minutes later nausea? I had a colleague whose blood pressure would drop fast when he was stopping to run, even just to drink at a water fountain along the way.
    - Did you eat something in those 15 minutes? I cannot eat solid food right after exercise. I first drink an electrolyte drink. Then slowly introduce things that appeal to me. If I feel turning green, I stop.
    - Yes, when people race a race (ex long distance runner attempting to sprint a 5k), they sometimes throw up. It even happens at my daughters school when they do a Beep Test. Managing efforts and energies is a learning curve and it is great to do it while training.
    - Fueling, hydrating and balancing electrolytes is challenging. The fact that you know your intake is great. If you have an idea of how much you burn, even better! That will help you improve too. For my size and metabolism, I know that I burn roughly 75 calories by km ran and use 1 ml of water by calorie burnt. So I adjust my nutrition accordingly. Good luck!
     

    RunDopey

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2017
    SAFD: Training is going well for me after being medically limited to walking for 7 weeks until early November. I have caught up on the training plan for my wife and I with little issue other than occasional tightness in my back. I am mixing in short (<30 mi) bike rides and yoga a couple of times a week. I did have my first massage on Saturday and that was not much fun. 60 minutes of painful deep tissue massage on various parts of my back but I do feel better.

    My advice on nutrition comes from a rule of thumb taught by veteran ultra runners: eat when you are hungry and drink when you are thirsty. I do tend to have a calorie deficit on runs up to 50 miles and stick to mostly Tailwind, GU roctane and RX bars. I am not knocking anyone who plans thier nutrition in a race, as it works for a lot of people and I wish I was more disciplined in that respect.

    Good luck to all with their injuries. Being limited for 7 weeks was no fun for me.
     
  • pinkxray

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 4, 2009
    I am trying to finalize all my Disney plans.
    I see that race photos are included in memory maker? Do you guys purchase memory maker to get your photos? We are only going for the weekend so not the but use of $ but I definitely want race pictures and maybe a few pics at the park.
     

    flav

    Loving My Ears
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2014
    For my size and metabolism, I know that I burn roughly 75 calories by km ran and use 1 ml of water by calorie burnt. So I adjust my nutrition accordingly.
    I am not knocking anyone who plans thier nutrition in a race, as it works for a lot of people and I wish I was more disciplined in that respect.
    Just to clarify, I do not eat during the run the total amount of calories I burn while running! Some of it goes into carb loading and some of it goes into post-race snacks then meal.
     

    flav

    Loving My Ears
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2014
    I am trying to finalize all my Disney plans.
    I see that race photos are included in memory maker? Do you guys purchase memory maker to get your photos? We are only going for the weekend so not the but use of $ but I definitely want race pictures and maybe a few pics at the park.
    For Wine and Dine 2017, I was solo and carried my phone during the races to get the characters pictures (some do not have Photopass photographer). I ended up buying a special package they offered to runners on the website: 7 pictures for 70$. Two of these race pictures are the best ones I have and would have costed me the same amount separately.

    For Marathon weekend, we are six family members who might be at different places at different times so I purchased Memory Maker.
     

    BigEeyore

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 22, 2008
    I see that race photos are included in memory maker? Do you guys purchase memory maker to get your photos?
    I bought the one day memory maker for the marathon this past year and it was well worth it! I split it with my friend. Not having to hand your phone off for every photo stop, along with the "action shots" on the course and the post-race celebratory photos made it worth every penny. We also got lots of fun pictures with our medals in the park afterwards.
     
  • FawnJD

    DATW Enthusiast
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2019
    I had been underfueling for years in all the half marathons I had run. But I chalked up that minor energy fade to being tired at the end of a long run. Which is normal. However, when I brought that strategy to marathon training, I really began to feel the deficit. Once I learned how much fuel I should be taking in, I then had to experiment to discover the best combination for taking that fuel in. In my case, sport beans in the quantity I needed left me feeling a bit off in my stomach for a few minutes. I tried huma gels and found that they worked much better for me. So the good news here is that you're learning about this now with plenty of time to figure out what works best for you before race day.
    Yeah, I'm having trouble taking in more than what I'm currently doing WHILE running. It could be that I need to switch away from the sport beans, but I like them because they are small and I can chew them easily--for some reason the consistency of gels is a REAL no-go for me while running, though I tolerate them fine beforehand. I've tried raisins and that was a disaster. I swear I have no food aversions or stomach problems and am not picky in the rest of my life--just while running!


    Just my own thoughts and experience, nothing professional here:
    - Did you do a proper cool down? I.e walk between the end of the run and the 15 minutes later nausea? I had a colleague whose blood pressure would drop fast when he was stopping to run, even just to drink at a water fountain along the way.
    - Did you eat something in those 15 minutes? I cannot eat solid food right after exercise. I first drink an electrolyte drink. Then slowly introduce things that appeal to me. If I feel turning green, I stop.
    - Yes, when people race a race (ex long distance runner attempting to sprint a 5k), they sometimes throw up. It even happens at my daughters school when they do a Beep Test. Managing efforts and energies is a learning curve and it is great to do it while training.
    - Fueling, hydrating and balancing electrolytes is challenging. The fact that you know your intake is great. If you have an idea of how much you burn, even better! That will help you improve too. For my size and metabolism, I know that I burn roughly 75 calories by km ran and use 1 ml of water by calorie burnt. So I adjust my nutrition accordingly. Good luck!
    I walked for a bit and stretched a little? I was short on time, so I know I rushed into showering faster than I would have liked, so that might be an issue. I am the same way with food right after exercise--it takes me a bit to be able to keep anything down. I ended up having a glass of full-sugar Sprite (I rarely drink soda, so this was unusual for me), because it was the only thing I thought I could keep down. I did start to feel MUCH better after the Sprite, so I'm thinking it might have been a blood sugar issue?

    I've never done any real metabolic testing, but simply going by my size, it seems like I should be burning about 83 calories per mile. I'm hoping that by continuing to experiment, I can find something that works...
     

    DopeyBadger

    Imagathoner
    Joined
    Oct 15, 2015
    Yeah, I'm having trouble taking in more than what I'm currently doing WHILE running. It could be that I need to switch away from the sport beans, but I like them because they are small and I can chew them easily--for some reason the consistency of gels is a REAL no-go for me while running, though I tolerate them fine beforehand. I've tried raisins and that was a disaster. I swear I have no food aversions or stomach problems and am not picky in the rest of my life--just while running!
    Just keep experimenting. There are a lot of different gels out there with different consistencies. SIS tend to be very watery because of their isotonic make-up and no need for additional water for absorption. I have not personally tried them. The E-gel is somewhere in the middle in consistency (not thick like GU and not thin like SIS). Maurten gels are like Jello and have a unique texture "half need to chew/not chew" type feel. So try a variety of brands to see if any of them might be more tolerable.

    As a personal example, I consume 93 grams/carbs per hour for training runs over 90 min (as practice for what I plan to do on race day). The intake is regimented and timed based on trying to maximize the absorption rate of the products. In my hopeful 3 hr marathon, I'll consume 279 grams carbs and 1120 calories. At 170 pounds, I'm estimated to burn 3260 calories. Based on an average male leg muscle mass (21%), my legs store about 1300 calories worth of carbohydrates and an additional 100 calories worth in my liver. Based on the calculations and attempting to run at peak performance, I have to also do an aggressive carb loading strategy to supercompensate the glycogen storage in my legs otherwise I will assuredly fall short of having enough energy on board. In comparison, in order to consume 279 grams carbs it would take just over 11 bags of sports beans.

    Screen Shot 2019-12-03 at 8.49.55 AM.png

    I chose the products based on their nutritional content (primarily looking at carbs, sodium, and potassium) and ease of transport.
     

    BigEeyore

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 22, 2008
    Probably not coincidentally, Dopey training is going just ok. After finishing MCM, my coach is having me take a different approach in getting ready for Dopey where it's more about the total weekly miles with less focus on the long run distance. After doing two 20-milers getting ready for MCM, having my longest run scheduled at 18 has me a bit worried, but I am trusting the plan. Goal for the weekend is to finish uninjured and smiling, so I guess I am on track and if not then DATW should fix that too.
    Same exact situation here! Did MCM - I was as well trained and prepared as I have ever been before a marathon, and now I feel like I am headed into marathon weekend undertrained because I had to back off mileage to recover from MCM. Like you - I just want to be in good enough shape to enjoy the weekend and be able to celebrate afterwards!
     

    willieT

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 14, 2005
    Yeah, I'm having trouble taking in more than what I'm currently doing WHILE running. It could be that I need to switch away from the sport beans, but I like them because they are small and I can chew them easily--for some reason the consistency of gels is a REAL no-go for me while running, though I tolerate them fine beforehand. I've tried raisins and that was a disaster. I swear I have no food aversions or stomach problems and am not picky in the rest of my life--just while running!
    Thank you for starting this discussion! I'm starting to seriously reconsider my fueling strategy after seeing the posts from you and @DopeyBadger .

    Can you eat bananas during a race? We will have 2 fuel stations with bananas during the race. A medium banana is about 110 calories (plus other good nutrients). During the race, I will take a banana half (or sometimes I take 2 of the half portions) and slowly eat it over the next mile.

    What about Clif bars? I slowly eat a bar in the corral starting about 30 minutes before the gun.

    I also drink both water and powerade at each water stop (except for the 3 stops in which I take a Clif gel; I only take water for those). I've discovered during training and racing that I can tolerate a good amount of water and powerade (or gatorade) with no stomach issues. It would be great to accurately calculate the calories in the (diluted) powerade drinks we receive at each runDisney aid station. If they were full strength, we would have 40 calories for every 6 ounce cup. So, with 19 aid stations, we have the opportunity for 380 calories for diluted (50%) powerade - assuming it's diluted at 50%, and assuming we can drink 6 ounces.

    One more fuel strategy: I use Clif Shot Bloks for the later stages of a race. I take 3 bloks which are only 100 calories (33 each), but I do the following for a mental boost: I bite a blok in half and place it in each cheek. The blok then slowly dissolves and lasts for the next 1 or 2 miles, and I can taste the flavor which really helps. I've read training studies in which runners on a treadmill would just taste a sports drink (but not swallow it) -- and their performance improved simply from the taste. Everything helps!

    FWIW, here's my fueling strategy which I've followed for the last 4 Disney marathons -- I think I need to adjust it:

    Start: Clif bar
    Mile 4: gel
    Mile 8: gel
    Mile 12: banana
    Mile 16: gel
    Mile 19: banana
    Mile 23: chocolate / candy

    Plus 16 aid stations with powerade
     
    Last edited:

    Dis_Yoda

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 26, 2008
    So, I’m sitting at my desk, eating the same frozen (not Frozen) meal I’ve had literally dozens of times this year and I can’t get the thought of eating at Boma out of my mind. Anyone else getting some serious Disney food cravings yet?
    I just finished my cheddar cheese popcorn out of my refillable bucket at lunch today. I want more! (and I literally just got home Sunday from WDW)

    I can't wait to eat at Takumi-Tei again.
     


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