Marathon Weekend 2020

Between reading about y'all's marathon training and watching Brittany Runs a Marathon, I'm pretty excited to go for marathon #2.
A friend of mine recently watched that and said that while she does not want to run a marathon, now she wants all of us who are running marathons to give her our tracking information so she can say "oh good, they're running a marathon."
 
Has anyone used oranges? Not sure how good they are. I just did NYC and I saw them being handed out early and passed. Suddenly around mile 18 I started craving them like crazy, I finally encountered someone handing them out around mile 22 and I felt like I was given magic juice. Would be a pain to carry myself I think.
 
Just to clarify, I do not eat during the run the total amount of calories I burn while running! Some of it goes into carb loading and some of it goes into post-race snacks then meal.
Huge fan of the post-race snacks and meal. And pre-race snacks :)

Someone much smarter than myself once said "We are all an experiment of one." Would never knock what works for anyone else.
 
I am really interested in the fuelling conversation. I tried have tried prescribed fuelling a certain time points, I tried simply eating when hungry, etc. Either way gels, bars and shot bloks became to hard to stomach. I was introduced to Tailwind and found that to be my answer. It provides the electrolytes and calories needed. Has some really good flavours and I found that adding shot bloks (for my need to chew something) seemed to be the right mix.

My only other suggestion is if you are eating, slow down/walk for a minute while you do it. For me this was a suggestion from another runner and it really helped me.

Now my question. I mostly used Tailwind in Ultras. Has anyone used Tailwind for a Marathon or Half? Powder in a bag? Hydration vest? What worked for you?

I have used Tailwind for all of my races and training runs that require fueling. I have used it in a marathon but usually only consume a gel or two during a half. I use it quite a bit for training runs from 25 to 45 miles. I use a bottle filled to start and then will take 2-4 "stick packs" for use during the run.
 


Now my question. I mostly used Tailwind in Ultras. Has anyone used Tailwind for a Marathon or Half? Powder in a bag? Hydration vest? What worked for you?

I can’t handle Powerade, not sure why. But, tailwind works great. I per 500ml, I will use one of the “single” serving packets (200 calories). For ultras, I use a vest, but for marathons, if I decide to bring my own, I use either a 10 ounce handheld or 11 ounce bottle for my flipbelt. The problem in marathons is that the packets of tailwind are kind of big, so I have also been using packets of scratch. To me, they are comparable products but the packets are smaller. I mainly use tailwind because it’s on most ultra courses and because it is cheaper per pack than skratch. Honestly, for this race, I will probably bring a few stroopwaffles and gels and stick with water....I just don’t want to carry anything.
 
Now my question. I mostly used Tailwind in Ultras. Has anyone used Tailwind for a Marathon or Half? Powder in a bag? Hydration vest? What worked for you?

I've used Tailwind on all my long runs and in 2 marathons. I use a large Nathan handheld and make it as strong as I can stand it. I pour my extra Tailwind into an empty NUUN tablet case for a refill. They are a great size to fit in my leggings/shorts pocket and easy to dump into the water bottle.
 
Honestly, it's trying to swallow them that kind of makes me gag and, therefore, get nauseated. I may have to try them with water, as you've said, or try some with a thinner consistency, as others have mentioned. It's a shame, though, because I really like the GU flavors. lol
I’m the same. I’ve tried some gels but can’t take them because of the texture. I started using Endurance Tap. It’s just maple syrup, sea salt and ginger and it’s yummy.
 


I've found the Clif Shot Energy Gels work well for me. There are various falvors, and I can be ok with most of them, DW on the other hand can only tolerate coffee variations When I use them I try to do it before a water stop and then only drink water from that stop. I'm not a big fan of mixing the Gel flavor with whatever powerade may be on the course. I do try and drink a cup of powerade about every 3rd water station, other than that I stay with water.
 
Looks like folks are already talking about training, so let's make it official. This week's Sundays are for Disney is a training checking. How are things going? Who wants to brag about some successful runs? Who needs a pick-me-up?
SAFD: Dopey training is coming along! Did my first b2b2b2b sim two weeks ago - 1/4/9/18 - and I'll do a 2/5/10/20 this weekend. The weather has finally cooled down here in FL, which is making things feel a whole lot better than a month ago. I was in WDW on vacation the past 6 days - WAY more daily walking than I normally do at my desk job, and a great reminder to make sure I get adequate rest and time off my feet during Marathon weekend! I only did 2 runs while there - a 6 and a 3.5 - but that was more than sufficient when added to the overall time on my feet.

Roller coaster weather here in Orlando this week. Fairly typical winter weather here.
I was in the MK on Sunday, wearing a T-shirt and running skort, and DHS Monday night, wearing two layers under a down jacket and freezing, lol! At mile 18 of my 20 this weekend I may regret saying this, but I'm looking forward to warming back up a bit.
 
FUELING talk...

I ended up having a glass of full-sugar Sprite (I rarely drink soda, so this was unusual for me), because it was the only thing I thought I could keep down. I did start to feel MUCH better after the Sprite, so I'm thinking it might have been a blood sugar issue?
I suffer from chronic hypoglycemia (low blood-sugar) and this screams low blood-sugar to me. And it's exactly what I do immediately after - and sometimes during - really long runs to get my glucose back somewhere above the danger line. I do fuel through the entire run but it drops a lot in the last miles of 18-26 milers.

Now my question. I mostly used Tailwind in Ultras. Has anyone used Tailwind for a Marathon or Half? Powder in a bag? Hydration vest? What worked for you?
I carry individual portions in little zipper bags I get at Michael's craft store. A scoop per baggie - small, easy to stick in a pocket. I carry a 12oz handheld bottle and get water at aid stations. I've got a system at this point: as I approach the aid station, I twist off the cap and hold it in my teeth, pull out a Tailwind bag, open and pour into bottle, grab water to fill, twist cap back on, and go, shaking the bottle to mix. On windy days, I'll stop at a table to fill, otherwise the powder goes everywhere.

~~~
I go by the rule of 100-200 calories of fuel per hour. For me, sipping on Tailwind (or Powerade, or Gatorade - I'm not really picky) plus a gel every 45 minutes works well. I figure it probably evens out to around 150 cals per hour. As I've mentioned before, I have chronic hypoglycemia, so even after a proper breakfast, I'm starting at a level just barely near normal, so it's critical that I fuel early and often. I've experienced big glucose drops twice during races - one immediately after, and once during - and it's truly awful: I never want that to happen again. I down a chocolate milk within 15-20 minutes after finishing a long run, too: that helps get my blood sugar back up, and keeps it up until I can get real food in me.
 
Training - I just discussed my training, but it's going decent. It's cold and snowy here now, so I have pretty much given up on any speedwork because I don't want to slip and fall. I'm not running for time at Disney, so I'm not too worried about it.

My resting HR finally went back down last week after being high for 3-ish weeks following my marathon. It's back up again this week - I think I'm stressed with getting everything done in time for the holidays!!
 
FUELING talk...


I suffer from chronic hypoglycemia (low blood-sugar) and this screams low blood-sugar to me. And it's exactly what I do immediately after - and sometimes during - really long runs to get my glucose back somewhere above the danger line. I do fuel through the entire run but it drops a lot in the last miles of 18-26 milers.

I essentially felt like I had the absolute worst hangover of my life--shaky, dizzy, and sick to the point of nearly dry heaving. Does that sound right? It's certainly not something I ever want to experience again!
 
I essentially felt like I had the absolute worst hangover of my life--shaky, dizzy, and sick to the point of nearly dry heaving. Does that sound right? It's certainly not something I ever want to experience again!
Yep, you've summed it up perfectly! Mind fog, too? Oddly emotional for no apparent reason? Heart racing? Good times lol! Ugh.
 
My buddy is running in the 2020 Marathon. As a spectator, is there anything I am missing if I do not accompany him to the starting line? I will meeting him at the finish line by Epcot

Unless your buddy sticks to the left side, wears a unique/bright shirt and you have a good zoom on the camera, you will probably miss him in the starting crowd/herd. Better to see him near the TTC or on Main Street in the Magic Kingdom, although with the earlier start, you need to check if they will allow spectators into the MK without a ticket...they did last year for the half.

It helps to share your location on a mapping app so you know when/where to look :)

This pic is taken from spectator area right after the start....
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This one is from the TTC:
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This is from the monorail:
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Has anyone used oranges? Not sure how good they are. I just did NYC and I saw them being handed out early and passed. Suddenly around mile 18 I started craving them like crazy, I finally encountered someone handing them out around mile 22 and I felt like I was given magic juice. Would be a pain to carry myself I think.

I like them, but not as a primary fuel source. More a supplement. In my last 50 miler, I switched exclusively to Tailwind for fuel after about 15 miles. The other solid foods just weren't appealing to me. But at each aid station I would eat an orange quarter and half a banana to give me something a little more solid than the Tailwind. That combination worked very well. I found the bright citrus taste to be refreshing.
 
One of our local races hands out oranges and while they do taste wonderful, I can't seem to eat them without making a mess. My hands get so sticky and I hate that feeling!! This year I decided to come to a full stop to eat the oranges, but I still ended up a sticky mess. :P

I agree about the stickiness. I took water at the next station to try to wash it off. But did they ever hit the spot!

Another recommendation is to keep in mind the options that are available. Although I generally agree with the advice of "don't try anything new on race day," things went off the rails during my first marathon. I could not stand anything solid, including my gels (that worked great for all of my long training runs). Somewhere in the looooong stretch between GF and AK I remembered someone from this board's recommendation of walking each station, taking some Poweraid followed by water. Though I never did this during training, it got me through my gastro issues for the second half of the marathon. For me, just knowing options for when my body tells me I need to do something different really helped. I always study what will be available on the course.
 
I essentially felt like I had the absolute worst hangover of my life--shaky, dizzy, and sick to the point of nearly dry heaving. Does that sound right? It's certainly not something I ever want to experience again!
Yup, same thing happens to me especially about 10-20 mins after I finish a long run (apparently that's a thing according to my pre-diabetic dad's cardiac rehab people who take his blood sugar when he's done his PT session and won't let him leave without eating something if it's below 100 because it'll keep dropping...fast.) Good call on the sugary drink, that's what buys me time to get some actual food in me.
 
The known variables are the run duration, walk duration, and average pace. The unknowns are the run speed and walking speed. So I used several different walking speeds as inputs to generate the possible run speeds being used. Most people walk around a 16-17 min/mile. But I know people who walk faster and slower. I personally walk at a 19-20 min/mile pace normally.

View attachment 456139

If the walking pace ranges from a 12 min/mile to a 20 min/mile, then the run pace ranges from a 7:40-8:00 min/mile for the 3:40 M and 7:54-8:20 min/mile for the 3:50 M.

3:40 M race pace equivalency
View attachment 456138

So for a 3:40 M runner, a 7:40-8:00 min/mile is roughly 10k to HM pace for 3 min with a 30 second rest. Or something like 620m (0.385 miles) intervals at 10k to HM pace.

3:50 M race pace equivalency
View attachment 456137

So for a 3:50 M runner, a 7:54-8:20 min/mile is roughly 8k to 11 mile race pace for 2.5 min with a 30 second rest. Or something like 500m (0.31 miles) intervals at 8k to 11 mile pace.

The difference between the two is that the 3:50 runner will have to run slightly faster relative to their own fitness level for a slightly shorter time. If a 3:50 M runner tried to do the 3:40 M pace group, then they would be doing roughly 5k-10k pace for those intervals instead of 10k-HM pace.

Interval distance wise the 3:40 is close to 1.5 miles after 4 sets (1.542 miles) and 3:50 is close to 1.5 miles after 5 sets (1.552 miles). So you might consider trying to do an every other type training run to see which methodology you feel most comfortable with. Do 1.5 miles at 8:24 pace, and then 1.5 miles at run/walk, and then 1.5 miles at 8:24 pace, and then 1.5 miles at run/walk. See how they feel differently and whether one feels more sustainable.



View attachment 456142

If the walking pace ranges from a 12 min/mile to a 20 min/mile, then the run pace ranges from a 8:52-9:50 min/mile for the 4:30 M.

4:30 M race pace equivalency
View attachment 456136

So for a 4:30 M runner, a 8:52-9:50 min/mile is roughly 4k to 20k race pace for 90 sec with a 30 second rest. Or something like 262m (0.163 miles) intervals at 4k to 20k pace. Because of the shorter ratio vs the 3:40/3:50 groups above, the walking pace actually used by the pacers becomes more important as to what the actual run pace would end up being. If they walk slower, then it dramatically increases the necessary run pace.

Six intervals gets you to 0.978 miles.
Thanks for all this. Based on the info in your other post the pace groups the run intervals are 2:30 and 3:00 minutes. I can use the same process to figure out the right way to go. With the slightly shorter run intervals paces are a little faster but I'll still use the 1.5 mile distance to start out. I think the big unknown to me is what the walk pace will be in those groups. Depending how brisk or slow it is that can cause things to vary. I was going to shoot for 15 mm pace walking, but it will be interesting to see what the race day pacers do.
 
Thanks for all this. Based on the info in your other post the pace groups the run intervals are 2:30 and 3:00 minutes. I can use the same process to figure out the right way to go. With the slightly shorter run intervals paces are a little faster but I'll still use the 1.5 mile distance to start out. I think the big unknown to me is what the walk pace will be in those groups. Depending how brisk or slow it is that can cause things to vary. I was going to shoot for 15 mm pace walking, but it will be interesting to see what the race day pacers do.
I’ve run with several of the RD pace groups for at least 5-6 miles to keep me grounded at the beginning of the race, and the walking pace is always on the faster side. I did some personalized training plans with Chris Twiggs, the head Galloway coach, and he confirmed that brisk is the goal for the pacers. He’s a great guy and is often at the Galloway booth at the expo if you have specific questions.
 

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