Member Services Breaking 11 Month Rule!

[KAT4DISNEY]

I just had another call from another supervisor (I’m not sure why I received two!) and she echoed what the first said and what PP suggested above. Her statement was that DVC can hold back rooms for cash bookings outside of the eleven-month window if they have been able to procure those rooms via members using their points for cruises and ABD.

They have the ability to forecast but I don't recall seeing that it allows them to circumvent the 11 month window. And since the owners are "depositing" point and not particular villas there really isn't a necessity for them to do anything outside the 11 month window. It breaks the first come first served part of the points system that the owners trading out would have to follow and makes it worse for other owners than it would be if the owner could not trade out at all and just had to book a villa.

Also it should not allow them to load up on popular times.

 

[EM Lawrence]

So when did these trade outs for ABD and DCL happen? Not right now, with neither of those things operating. Which means that if that is how they are getting these rooms, they are either: saving the “points” they have gotten via this route and being opportunistic about cashing them in against the interest of the rest of the membership; or they are predicting that there will be trade outs for ABD and DCL in the future and cashing in on them against the interests of the rest of the membership. Not a good look either way. Is there a more favorable view that I am missing here?

 

[Sandisw]

Until I see it in hard writing someplace this sounds like nothing more than a line they've been fed to repeat to make peace.
I'm sure those points are not popped immediately into any one room, but rather into a holding cell of sorts where they're pulled from for cash rentals when the 11 month window opens.

Not to mention, it makes no sense for DVC to be holding back the rooms that are more sought and harder to come by when there are plenty of other rooms available.

Actually, it does make sense because members can trade out more than 11 months in advance and therefore, they are basically taking the room out when they do to rent because they must pay for the trades.

It May not make sense for what they take, but if they can legally pull the room because the owner used the points elsewhere already, then there is no rule as to what they can take.

Now, could they have used this to their advantage for the 50th? Sure, but again, the rooms pulled because of trades are not DVDs points that are subject to the same rule as every other owners points.

 

[twinklebug]

They have the ability to forecast but I don't recall seeing that it allows them to circumvent the 11 month window. And since the owners are "depositing" point and not particular villas there really isn't a necessity for them to do anything outside the 11 month window. It breaks the first come first served part of the points system that the owners trading out would have to follow and makes it worse for other owners than it would be if the owner could not trade out at all and just had to book a villa.

Also it should not allow them to load up on popular times.

Exactly.

Those points are from a contract and are bound to rules as though it were the owner using them. The rules don't change.

 

[Sandisw]

So when did these trade outs for ABD and DCL happen? Not right now, with neither of those things operating. Which means that if that is how they are getting these rooms, they are either: saving the “points” they have gotten via this route and being opportunistic about cashing them in against the interest of the rest of the membership; or they are predicting that there will be trade outs for ABD and DCL in the future and cashing in on them against the interests of the rest of the membership. Not a good look either way. Is there a more favorable view that I am missing here?

When a member books, they have to have time to rent a room for cash. It’s one of the reasons a member can not book and travel in the last 4 months of a UY.

As soon as the things are booked, the rooms should be going with them,,but, again, DVCM has the data to support what and when is open and what would rent for cash, etc.

So, not sure we know exactly how that works, but we know that in order for the trade to happen and equal number of rooms to match will be pulled from inventory.

FW are pulled before 11 months too so there are cases where it can and does happen. I have found nothing that indicates they can’t prevent them from breaking the 11 month rule for trades, which, remember, can be changed at any time as long as it applies to all owners. So, booking at home resort is 11 months. But Pulling rooms for trades whenever could be legal.

 

[Sandisw]

Exactly.

Those points are from a contract and are bound to rules as though it were the owner using them. The rules don't change.

But the rules have to do with home resort priority and the owners points are not being used to secure a room there, DVCM is in control of what rooms can get taken...just like for RCI.

Again, not seeing anything that prevents them from doing it. I guess I am going to have to read up on my documents that discuss trading and see what it says. May not be right or fair, but the question is really can it be legal?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

When a member books, they have to have time to rent a room for cash. It’s one of the reasons a member can not book and travel in the last 4 months of a UY.

As soon as the things are booked, the rooms should be going with them,,but, again, DVCM has the data to support what and when is open and what would rent for cash, etc.

So, not sure we know exactly how that works, but we know that in order for the trade to happen and equal number of rooms to match will be pulled from inventory.

FW are pulled before 11 months too so there are cases where it can and does happen. I have found nothing that indicates they can’t prevent them from breaking the 11 month rule for trades, which, remember, can be changed at any time as long as it applies to all owners. So, booking at home resort is 11 months. But Pulling rooms for trades whenever could be legal.

Fixed weeks are accounted for in the POS of each resort they exist at. They are noted as an exception to the 11 month rule.

 

[Sandisw]

Fixed weeks are accounted for in the POS of each resort they exist at. They are noted as an exception to the 11 month rule.

Yes, I know that but my point is that there are situations where it can happen and absent of something that specifically prevents them from pulling more than 11 months out when owners can trade out more than 11 months out, it is possible they can do it and did this time.

Again, I can’t find anything that says they can’t in the POS so I am going to dig out my paperwork for the trading from RIv last year to see if it yields any insight.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Actually, it does make sense because members can trade out more than 11 months in advance and therefore, they are basically taking the room out when they do to rent because they must pay for the trades.

It May not make sense for what they take, but if they can legally pull the room because the owner used the points elsewhere already, then there is no rule as to what they can take.

Now, could they have used this to their advantage for the 50th? Sure, but again, the rooms pulled because of trades are not DVDs points that are subject to the same rule as every other owners points.

It's doubtful that the exchange actually creates an exact booking to compensate. Ie, like most everything in a points based system it all eventually evens out but it's not XXX in RCI is a 1BR at SSR during dream season etc. Also, we are speaking of the forecasting exchanges. That perhaps even brings the rule of 4 into question if that is what they do use. But my point is the same as I mentioned above. With DVC the owner is not providing Unit 3B week 24 to be placed into the exchange for being able to go to Vermont. They are placing points with no time attached.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Yes, I know that but my point is that there are situations where it can happen and absent of something that specifically prevents them from pulling more than 11 months out when owners can trade out more than 11 months out, it is possible they can do it and did this time.

Again, I can’t find anything that says they can’t in the POS so I am going to dig out my paperwork for the trading from RIv last year to see if it yields any insight.

And I don't recall seeing anything that states they can ignore the 11 month rule but it's been awhile since reading the particulars of this. I knew of the forecasting but do recall it stating it allows them outside of 11 months. Just that they can forecast how many owners will eventually do an exchange of some sort.

The second part of the equation though is loading up on popular dates. Very doubtful that should be done.

 

[Sandisw]

And I don't recall seeing anything that states they can ignore the 11 month rule but it's been awhile since reading the particulars of this. I knew of the forecasting but do recall it stating it allows them outside of 11 months. Just that they can forecast how many owners will eventually do an exchange of some sort.

The second part of the equation though is loading up on popular dates. Very doubtful that should be done.

The document with the info regarding 11 month rule only discusses booking within the DVC resorts,

It does not discuss what happens when points are converted to reservation points. So, I don’t believe that document necessarily applies.

I know that the owners actual room does not go, but from my understanding, at this point. Is it’s up to DVCM, to choose what goes to RCI and what rooms to pull to rent for cash to compensate for trades.

The POS doesn’t seem to detail how that works because it’s a benefit so not included. ..that is why I’m going to look to see if it is elsewhere.

But, absent of specific language, its not clear that they can’t when those trades can be booked well beyond 11 months out. As you say, they have a general idea and can forecast typical points needing to be removed from the system, but beyond that I have to research.

I agree that pulling popular dates doesn’t sit well, and shouldn’t happen, but given the low occupancy, can they justify it because they have to rent rooms in order to pay for trades? I don’t know but for me, it’s now about knowing what is and is not within bounds.

I do find it interesting that is the explanation that was given as it IMO is plausible. We will see if others get the same or different.

 

[Sandisw]

So here is the wording regarding trades. Open to interpretation and the use of the words in their discretion, may or may not be relevant. Again, doesn’t say they can...but doesn’t say they can’t.

 

[twinklebug]

So here is the wording regarding trades. Open to interpretation and the use of the words in their discretion, may or may not be relevant. Again, doesn’t say they can...but doesn’t say they can’t.

View attachment 535474

I still read that as though the points retain their use year, resort and 11 month restrictions. In many ways, it has to for inventory purposes.

 

[Sandisw]

I still read that as though the points retain their use year, resort and 11 month restrictions. In many ways, it has to for inventory purposes.

I think the words in their discretion could give them the power to treat them differently, but it’s not as clear as I was hoping it would be.

Its why I said it’s open to interpretation and from the one report, it sounds like DVC believes they can.

 

[zavandor]

So here is the wording regarding trades. Open to interpretation and the use of the words in their discretion, may or may not be relevant. Again, doesn’t say they can...but doesn’t say they can’t.

View attachment 535474

As I read it, when a member does an exchange he gives the rights on his points to DVC who then uses those rights to book rooms for cash guests.
Since members don't have the rights to book more than 11 months in advance, that right cannot be transfered to Disney.
Put in other terms: if a member makes an exchange more than 11 months in the future and with those points DVC immediately books a room, then member's points are being used more than 11 months in advance. Which is not allowed.
Also, exchanges like ABD and cruises are a perk that is not open to all members. I very much doubt that a non contractual perk allows to violate the rights of other members, unless it is explicitly allowed in the POS.

 

[DaveNan]

Hard to see how any of this is in the best interest of the owners.

 

[New Mouse]

You guys debate this as if Disney and DVC specifically has never done anything illegal, borderline illegal or immoral before.


I also notice a lot of comments about guests being blamed by cast and supervisors for x y or z. I too apparently suck at booking reservations because I was blamed for not canceling my reservation before Disney did....because I should have known they werent going to open and should have known what a big risk it was to hold thinking they might open. Disneys customer service has been embarassing.

 

[Gherdlitcka]

Just tried to book two bedroom at CCV and I used 30 September to 7 October. The site told me 30 September was unavailable . So I tried to adjust the dates. It came back with 5-6 October were unavailable. This was at 07:00 CST this morning. when I went to adjust it was at 07:03. Something is going on.

 

[ctl]

Just tried to book two bedroom at CCV and I used 30 September to 7 October. The site told me 30 September was unavailable . So I tried to adjust the dates. It came back with 5-6 October were unavailable. This was at 07:00 CST this morning. when I went to adjust it was at 07:03. Something is going on.

Yep. I am still getting 30 September to 7 October. Shouldn't it be October 1st to October 8 today?

 

[Gherdlitcka]

Well is it 11 months or 335 days? I’m not up on Disney math.