Mom Ticketed For Neglect After Calling Police To Help Free Toddler Locked in Car

[luvsJack]

This is is an inaccurate perception of the way our criminal justice system works. Police are authorized to use discretion on whether to issue a ticket or arrest a person for a given offense. If you've ever had a cop let you off of a speeding ticket with a warning, you've been the beneficiary of this discretion. This discretion is based on a lot of things, such as the severity of the offense, if it seemed to be purposeful or not, etc. So yes, police officers routinely make judgments about the person they're dealing with and the circumstances before issuing or not issuing a citation.

Likewise, prosecutors have discretion in deciding which cases they will or will not prosecute. They typically first try to arrange a deal so that the case never goes to court, and failing that, they want to feel they have a reasonable chance of proving their case and getting a conviction before taking the case to court on the public's dime.

So no, it's not like police officers are robots who must write tickets & make arrests for every infraction they see, and the judge must decide all of these cases. Only a small minority of criminal cases ever end up being decided in front of a judge or jury.

I didn't say they can't use discretion. I said they do not determine guilt. People go to court over tickets everyday that are dismissed. Obviously the judge finds them not to be guilty.

With this being such a hot topic right now, it's very possible that these officers were told to issue tickets in these cases. It's also very possible that the officer saw other reasons to issue the ticket. Many things are possible that do not make the officer wrong in the action he took.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

Like what? Do people abuse their kids in a public place by locking them in a car then trying to rescue them?

I guess there are some parents that would lock their kids in a car.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

What exactly do you suggest she break the window with? Fingernail clippers? Ever try and intentionally break a window? Should she have a crowbar or tire iron in her pocket? Self righteousness, is not a pretty thing. Hope that some of you never find yourself in that position even accidentally.

Um, if you read the article it states that they were back home.

Are you seriously trying to say that there was not one single thing that they could find to break a window? Are you kidding me?

 

[tarheelmjfan]

When cops are involved, some will automatically defend the police. Others immediately defend the "victim". A wise person waits for all the details, before choosing sides. It never ceases to amaze me that so many people don't really appear to care what actually happened. They're too quick to jump on a bandwagon to wait for the actual facts to be revealed.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

A child left in a hot car can die or suffer brain damage in 15 minutes and yet people will defend the person who did it and rag on the cop for issuing a ticket.

 

[maxiesmom]

Like what? Do people abuse their kids in a public place by locking them in a car then trying to rescue them?

On the news this morning a woman left her 2 kids in the car (at home, not in public) to punish them. And they both died. So people do abuse their children by leaving them in hot cars. Also a 10 month old baby is dead because the dad forgot to drop they baby off at daycare.

 

[sam_gordon]

A child left in a hot car can die or suffer brain damage in 15 minutes and yet people will defend the person who did it and rag on the cop for issuing a ticket.

No one is denying leaving kids locked in a hot car is dangerous. What's at issue is whether THIS case, based on the limited information we have, is an issue of negligence. Not directly related, but many years ago, DW was getting something out of the oven. She opened the oven door, got the item, and turned to put it on the counter. Younger DD (about two at the time) toddled up, tripped on her own two feet and fell with her forearms falling on the (still hot) oven door burning them. Do you think DW should have gotten a ticket for neglect? Unfortunately accidents happen. Sometimes those accidents cause injuries to people. That doesn't mean it was a case of neglect.

On the news this morning a woman left her 2 kids in the car (at home, not in public) to punish them. And they both died. So people do abuse their children by leaving them in hot cars. Also a 10 month old baby is dead because the dad forgot to drop they baby off at daycare.

Go back and read what you quoted. No one is denying people have accidentally left their kids in the car, but how often has someone INTENTIONALLY locked their kids in the car in a public location, then tried to rescue them?

 

[maxiesmom]

Go back and read what you quoted. No one is denying people have accidentally left their kids in the car, but how often has someone INTENTIONALLY locked their kids in the car in a public location, then tried to rescue them?

I don't think it needs to be intentional to be criminal. Saying it was an accident doesn't excuse it.

 

[EveDallas]

Geez, am I the only one who would have broken the window as soon as I couldn't get the kid out? Waiting and letting the kid sit in a hot car is like saying the cost of a new window outweighs getting the kid safe.

 

[sam_gordon]

I don't think it needs to be intentional to be criminal. Saying it was an accident doesn't excuse it.

I agree and disagree. You're correct, simply saying "it was an accident" doesn't excuse it. However, IMO one would need to PROVE the mother was negligent for it to be criminal. Many, many, many people (me included) have locked keys in cars. Does having a child in the backseat eliminate that as a possibility? No. If a prosecutor wants to file child endangerment charges, go ahead. IMO, this shouldn't be up to a LEO to issue a ticket.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I agree and disagree. You're correct, simply saying "it was an accident" doesn't excuse it. However, IMO one would need to PROVE the mother was negligent for it to be criminal. Many, many, many people (me included) have locked keys in cars. Does having a child in the backseat eliminate that as a possibility? No. If a prosecutor wants to file child endangerment charges, go ahead. IMO, this shouldn't be up to a LEO to issue a ticket.

I see your line of thinking. Honestly though some of this might truly be area-specific.

In my earlier post I listed what I thought seemed to be the most likely statute here but one of the parts is:
~Left unattended in a motor vehicle if such minor child is six years of age or younger

There are other parts that may be just as relevant but I don't have enough details to know if any of these including the left unattended is the reasoning for the ticket.

Perhaps the officer did not fully believe the story given to him and believed the child was left unattended versus the wind blowing and the doors locking at the same time as well as other factors going on-just thinking out loud here because truthfully there is likely information we're not being privy to in order to fully understand the situation. Nebraska considers that neglect (see my prior post for more details) which is what the mother was ticketed with. I'm intrigued myself though on what was completely going on that day because right now I feel like there are some holes missing.

 

[kirstenb1]

What exactly do you suggest she break the window with? Fingernail clippers? Ever try and intentionally break a window? Should she have a crowbar or tire iron in her pocket? Self righteousness, is not a pretty thing. Hope that some of you never find yourself in that position even accidentally.

I've been thinking about this myself. Everything I could use would be locked in the car. There might be a large rock, if I was lucky. But around here, its more likely to be tiny rocks and dirt.

 

[CarolAnn856]

But it is an option to let people know where you are from....It is there to be viewed otherwise why put anything in it??

I'm going to guess that most people put that there as a way of making connections with others, not to have someone throw it in their face. Obviously, they put it there, and that's obviously a risk. But what another poster chooses to do with that information speaks volumes. I stand by my statement.

 

[maxiesmom]

I agree and disagree. You're correct, simply saying "it was an accident" doesn't excuse it. However, IMO one would need to PROVE the mother was negligent for it to be criminal. Many, many, many people (me included) have locked keys in cars. Does having a child in the backseat eliminate that as a possibility? No. If a prosecutor wants to file child endangerment charges, go ahead. IMO, this shouldn't be up to a LEO to issue a ticket.

Taking this farther, the story on the news this morning, where the dad forgot to drop off a child to daycare and the child died, do you think there shouldn't be any charges? I know it was a horrible accident, but still. You know how many kids you have, you know leaving them in the car may kill the.

 

[lifesavacation]

I don't think it needs to be intentional to be criminal. Saying it was an accident doesn't excuse it.

Agreed. Children have absolutely no means to protect themselves. I think saying it's an "accident" diminishes the suffering the child experienced being strapped in their car seat unable to move in a hot car. A child can die in 30 minutes in a hot car. The child suffered the same whether it was intentional or unintentional negligence. Should unintentional acts committed by parents that result in harm = no culpability?

These parents might be "good" parents. And their negligence might not rise to the level of prosecution--I have no idea how the law reads. It just seems odd to me that we tend to dismiss harm that is caused by parents. A different standard of care is applied to childcare workers or non-relatives.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm going to guess that most people put that there as a way of making connections with others, not to have someone throw it in their face. Obviously, they put it there, and that's obviously a risk. But what another poster chooses to do with that information speaks volumes. I stand by my statement.

If you don't agree with what I said sure fine whatever that's one thing despite the fact that there was nothing nefarious intended and I'd be more than willing to conversate on that.

But to put that information there so others can see it regardless of why you want the information there it is still there. So expressing outrage in a "how dare you know where I live by looking at information I completely voluntarily not in any way shape or form is required way on a very public internet forum" is quite another thing.

 

[sam_gordon]

I see your line of thinking. Honestly though some of this might truly be area-specific.

In my earlier post I listed what I thought seemed to be the most likely statute here but one of the parts is:
~Left unattended in a motor vehicle if such minor child is six years of age or younger

As someone said earlier in the thread "just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD." There are plenty of laws on the books that get ignored in EVERY area. Personally, IMO, "child neglect" should not be a ticketable offense. If the DA feels there should be charges, they can file them.

Taking this farther, the story on the news this morning, where the dad forgot to drop off a child to daycare and the child died, do you think there shouldn't be any charges? I know it was a horrible accident, but still. You know how many kids you have, you know leaving them in the car may kill the.

Based only on the information you gave (why do you assume I've seen the news this morning, and that if I did see they news, they covered the same story), no, I don't think charges should be filed. What is the purpose? You don't think that father is in enough pain already that he (and his family) needs to be punished more by sending him to jail? If it can be proven (or I guess even suspected) that he made a conscious decision to leave the child in the car while he went to work (or into a store, or bar, or house, whatever), then yes, charges should be filed.

 

[kirstenb1]

Um, if you read the article it states that they were back home.

Are you seriously trying to say that there was not one single thing that they could find to break a window? Are you kidding me?

I missed that. I was picturing them being stuck on a road somewhere remote.

 

[Magpie]

As someone said earlier in the thread "just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD." There are plenty of laws on the books that get ignored in EVERY area. Personally, IMO, "child neglect" should not be a ticketable offense. If the DA feels there should be charges, they can file them.

Based only on the information you gave (why do you assume I've seen the news this morning, and that if I did see they news, they covered the same story), no, I don't think charges should be filed. What is the purpose? You don't think that father is in enough pain already that he (and his family) needs to be punished more by sending him to jail? If it can be proven (or I guess even suspected) that he made a conscious decision to leave the child in the car while he went to work (or into a store, or bar, or house, whatever), then yes, charges should be filed.

This is very much how I feel, as well. I don't like punishing people unless I see some kind of practical outcome to it. What will the person being punished learn? What will others learn? Will making an example of this person create a deterrent to others?

However, when something tragic happens (such as a child dying), a LOT of people just want to see someone punished. They want to believe that this person was a terrible parent, far worse than the rest of us, completely deserving of punishment. Because it assures them that they would never leave their child in the car. Their child is safe.

They don't want "justice", they want vengeance. They want someone to pay.

It is SO easy for a small change in routine to throw us off completely. My husband has a prescription he has to take in the morning. It's really important and he tries not to forget. But one morning the cat knocked something off the table and just as he was cleaning it up, the dog barfed and he had to clean up that, too. He was at work, hours later, when he suddenly realized he had no memory of taking his pill. Our brains play tricks on us, regularly.

Now imagine being a sleep deprived, distracted parent, with a sleeping child in the back seat. And some small thing in your morning routine has changed, so that instead of dropping the child off, you drive to work instead. It's terrifyingly easy to do!

The best advice I've ever read is, when you buckle your child in, take your wallet out of your pocket and put it on the back seat next to the child. Do this routinely. Chances are, when you step out of the car, you routinely pat your pockets for your wallet. So you're FAR more likely to remember your wallet, than your child.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As someone said earlier in the thread "just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD." There are plenty of laws on the books that get ignored in EVERY area. Personally, IMO, "child neglect" should not be a ticketable offense. If the DA feels there should be charges, they can file them.

I don't agree nor disagree with you. I was just providing some information. You said you didn't think it should be up to the officer and I was providing information based on the state-specific laws. Perhaps I was more coming at this standpoint of it sounded like your opinion was more of a State of Nebraska issue to me rather than a police department issue.

Speeding tickets, parking tickets, etc are things that have a lot of leeway in actually following through but abuse is not one and with it being summertime I'm sure the child in a car is more on the radar. I mentioned the left unattended part because if the officer truly felt the child was left unattended versus what the adults said happened and the state classified that as abuse by neglect and it was something the officer could ticket for then he may have felt that was the thing he should do. Honestly with the left unattended in a car I'm thinking a police officer is the most likely person to even find that information out when talking about the legal system as a whole. I'm trying to imagine scenarios where a prosecutor would even find out that information unless the person was already under suspicion of abuse or for this particular state a ticket was written for it and the person who got the ticket needed to appear in court.

I understand those who have a gut reaction of "this is so silly to write a ticket for this" but I have the gut reaction of "I'm not getting the full story and feel like details are missing". And that goes for both sides the police officer and the mom.

The can do something part was related to something else as far as I could interpret.