Monorail rumor

It would be nice to finally see Mark VIII monorails. I love the current monorails, but it's almost funny how jerky their acceleration is and how they have to creep into stations to align at the right spot.

And maybe in addition to diversifying into gondolas, we will soon see VTOL "flying cars" in the next few years once that technology matures. I wonder if they are setting aside space for a rooftop landing pad on top of the new Coronado tower they are building...
 
Could a gondola extention not replace the monorail? They can move with a lot of precision so probably could still go through the contemporary

They build all of WDW in a swamp, so sure, everything is possible - but seems like it would be a challenge and a bit of fitting a square peg in a round hole

I could see them changing the EPCOT track to a Gondola though (and I believe those tracks are in worse shape since they were built more "cheaply" than the MK loop)
 
I could see some kind of elevated electric light rail system. I'm sure Disney could make it sleek and contemporary looking, and I would bet that building a traditional steel support system would cost significantly less than the concrete beams for the monorail.

I was a computer engineer not a civil one so struggle with why monorails are so much more expensive than other systems - like light rail. And if steel would be cheaper couldn't they build a steel monorail beam?
 


This is just a wild guess. Light rail using metal tracks is a bit more flexible and can move with the earth so to speak. Concrete Mono rails(yes the track is actually metal, but anchored the concrete) are far less tolerant of flex. So must be built more stout, especially with florida's notoriously porous ground.

I'd bet if they were to build disney all over again, and HAD to have a train for the hotel loop, with current knowledge....they'd have a different type of train system.
 
This is just a wild guess. Light rail using metal tracks is a bit more flexible and can move with the earth so to speak. Concrete Mono rails(yes the track is actually metal, but anchored the concrete) are far less tolerant of flex. So must be built more stout, especially with florida's notoriously porous ground.

I'd bet if they were to build disney all over again, and HAD to have a train for the hotel loop, with current knowledge....they'd have a different type of train system.

but do monorail *have* to use concrete rails? Could they make it out of metal or some other material that would be cheaper and more efficient?
 
The concrete bears the weight of the vehicle in the center. The exterior metal "rails" I think are the power and "steering".
Lots of cool info here.
https://mrdrailfanblog.wordpress.com/2015/11/22/wdw-monorail_tech/

The piers per mile count is 50 with monorail, whereas in standard rail the pier count is 75. Also notice the per-mile amounts of steel and concrete required for both monorail and light rail: 4.6 times the concrete and 2.4 times the steel, not to mention the aesthetics.
 


...but it's almost funny how jerky their acceleration is and how they have to creep into stations to align at the right spot.

I don't remember them creeping into the station so slowly except for our last trip in January. My theory is that the "self driving" automation they have added now causes them to creep into the stations, whereas before an experienced pilot could bring them into and stop them much more accurately much faster. But that's just a guess.
 
I don't remember them creeping into the station so slowly except for our last trip in January. My theory is that the "self driving" automation they have added now causes them to creep into the stations, whereas before an experienced pilot could bring them into and stop them much more accurately much faster. But that's just a guess.

That's probably it. The good part is that they don't seem to overshoot anymore, requiring them to backup.
 
As far as replacing the monorail with gondolas---- notice from the plan for the new gondolas that they need to run in straight lines until reaching a turn station-- so at very least the path of the new gondola around bay lake would need to be square-- or trapezoidal-- with a straight line through the contemporary--and at the ttc, and at the poly, and at the GF....I don't think the change would be as easy as people are thinking....
 
As far as replacing the monorail with gondolas---- notice from the plan for the new gondolas that they need to run in straight lines until reaching a turn station-- so at very least the path of the new gondola around bay lake would need to be square-- or trapezoidal-- with a straight line through the contemporary--and at the ttc, and at the poly, and at the GF....I don't think the change would be as easy as people are thinking....
My thoughts as well. I’m no expert on gondolas but I can’t see how it’d be easy to navagate a circular route in straight lines
 
I could see some kind of elevated electric light rail system. I'm sure Disney could make it sleek and contemporary looking, and I would bet that building a traditional steel support system would cost significantly less than the concrete beams for the monorail.

While the structural parts of the support system quite possibly would be less expensive they would still require a significant subterranean footing. That's 1 of the big expenses of building a monorail system at WDW, the ground is so soft that they have to build huge foundations for each tower. Since the towers for light rail are actually closer together that would significantly increase the cost of light rail, still probably cheaper than a monorail but not as big a difference as many people are assuming.
 
but do monorail *have* to use concrete rails? Could they make it out of metal or some other material that would be cheaper and more efficient?
I'm not certain that they could make a steel beam thick and strong enough to carry the weight of the monorail, and have it be any less expensive to build than the concrete beams are. Keep in mind that railroad track is a thick chunk of steel, and it is directly supported by railroad ties, which are typically spaced no more than 24" apart. I believe that building a structural beam out of steel, strong enough to support the monorail trains, and stiff enough to not bend, would require much more steel, and many more supports than any of us might imagine, and in the long run, would probably be even more expensive than the concrete beams, in addition to requiring much more maintenance and upkeep as steel will rust and rot over the course of years.
 
Monorails have less vertical beams per foot of track, that is a plus for it. I would suspect if they went light rail, they'd do a large portion of it at ground level, meaning it would need less support structure.

FYI gondolas can turn, without a turn station, it just must be a 10° or less. A turn station assumes a lot of tension.
The reality is you don't need as many turns as you might think. You have a station at the poly, a turn station at the GF and a station at MK. You then have a station at TTC, a turn station at WL, and a station at MK/CR. two V's covers it. < >
gondola replacement.png
 
Monorails have less vertical beams per foot of track, that is a plus for it. I would suspect if they went light rail, they'd do a large portion of it at ground level, meaning it would need less support structure.

FYI gondolas can turn, without a turn station, it just must be a 10° or less. A turn station assumes a lot of tension.
The reality is you don't need as many turns as you might think. You have a station at the poly, a turn station at the GF and a station at MK. You then have a station at TTC, a turn station at WL, and a station at MK/CR. two V's covers it. < >
View attachment 302767

I like how you made the stop at WL, that would be very helpful there IMO. If they could keep it to the west parking area so its not to noticeable.

Not sure about leaving out CR/BLT.
 
Not sure about leaving out CR/BLT.
I think you put the station in the CR/BLT parking lot. Doesn't transport you to MK, as you walk there anyway. It's there to get you to WL/TTC. Of course the masses would be on the TTC/WL/MK(CR) line so you really want it to drop closer to the MK entrance.
 
I think you put the station in the CR/BLT parking lot. Doesn't transport you to MK, as you walk there anyway. It's there to get you to WL/TTC. Of course the masses would be on the TTC/WL/MK(CR) line so you really want it to drop closer to the MK entrance.

The debate prior to this was about cost differences between adding trains and converting to gondolas running through the existing stations. (I think)(or at least in my mind) The layout suggested doesn't come close to using the existing stations-- there would have to be a turn prior to the contemporary coming from MK to line up with the building--- then a turn way out in the roadway to line up with TTC--- then a turn to line up with the poly loading ramp, etc. If you are saying they should build all new platforms at all the resorts, etc, then the cost would probably be much cheaper to replace trains.
 
The debate prior to this was about cost differences between adding trains and converting to gondolas running through the existing stations. (I think)(or at least in my mind) The layout suggested doesn't come close to using the existing stations-- there would have to be a turn prior to the contemporary coming from MK to line up with the building--- then a turn way out in the roadway to line up with TTC--- then a turn to line up with the poly loading ramp, etc. If you are saying they should build all new platforms at all the resorts, etc, then the cost would probably be much cheaper to replace trains.
I don't think it's reasonable or practical to re-use monorail stations for a gondola. You'd be better off leaving it in place and operational as you build the gondolas. Then slowly reduce the monorail use as the gondolas come on line and prove to be useful. You would have to build new stations regardless, might as well start out with a fresh piece of property.
 
I don't think it's reasonable or practical to re-use monorail stations for a gondola. You'd be better off leaving it in place and operational as you build the gondolas. Then slowly reduce the monorail use as the gondolas come on line and prove to be useful. You would have to build new stations regardless, might as well start out with a fresh piece of property.
I don't either Replace the monorail trains and be done with it. Most likely any other system will cost more. Especially when they have to remove the monorail.
 
google says 3 million a mile up to 15 million a mile for a new gondola system. The pattern I outlined is 3 miles. That would be 9 to 45 million which is a pretty big swing.
Google also indicates a monorail train is around 2 million per train. 7 trains, puts it at 14 million.
Those are internet guesses, so they are about as reliable as the current monorails operating performance.

Light rail for point of comparison is 36 million per mile for a fresh build.
 

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