Multi-Site POS Revision Dated 01/19/19

[ziravan]

Exactly. As I keep pointing out, I have yet to use my VGF points to stay anywhere but there. We just bought a VGC contract. I paid $165pp (still very high IMO, but the market sets the price). I didn't pay that price to stay at other resorts with those points. I completely concede that having flexibility is very nice and a huge bonus, but I don't plan on ever using my VGC or VGF points to stay anywhere except at those two resorts. If I was told that I could only use any of my points at only my home resort, I would be very angry to have the ability to book elsewhere at 7 months taken away, but I wouldn't rush to sell my points as I bought where I want to stay. I paid a premium for the ability to book relatively hassle free at 11 months out at all of my home resorts as well as not having to partake in the 7-month scramble.

That’s different. The more sought after locations in smaller resorts have a resale value that reflects people buying to just stay there. That’s a reflection of the difficulty in booking because of size, or particular times of the year.

In the case of VGC and BCV, those points are now selling for significantly more than they sold new, both in the just sub-100 range new.

But even SSR, where people aren’t buying to book Fall Frenzy at 11 months out, still sells for essentially its new price.

 

[Katie L]

If you buy direct at $180 and you think it's convenient because you can resell for $150

I don't think Riviera is going to start below $200. But I guess we'll see.

 

[Katie L]

If I was told that I could only use any of my points at only my home resort, I would be very angry to have the ability to book elsewhere at 7 months taken away, but I wouldn't rush to sell my points as I bought where I want to stay.

But will Riviera really have that appeal? I'm dubious. The location is okaaaaay (made better by gondolas - but it isn't walkable to any park) and they completely abandoned immersion with the view of CB. As some have said, it looks like a Marriott tower - and I guess some people may be so pixie dusted they won't notice. But I'll be utterly shocked if it holds any sort of value with the resale restrictions. So I think they'll rescind them. But that still leaves the L14 unabled to book there. Oy.

 

[ljmiii]

Exactly. As I keep pointing out, I have yet to use my VGF points to stay anywhere but there... I paid a premium for the ability to book relatively hassle free at 11 months out at all of my home resorts as well as not having to partake in the 7-month scramble.

I too am a firm believer in the 'Buy where you want to stay' philosophy - I own at BCV and BLT and have never used my points anywhere else. But the lengths to which DVC is now willing to go to punish its owners gives me pause. Giving extra 'perks' to direct buyers is one thing. But once they breach the core ownership 'rules' of DVC - any owner can book at 11 months home, 7 months everywhere else - there is no reason to think they will stop.

As comments further up this thread suggest, DVC has laid the groundwork to shorten the booking window for resale Riviera contracts along with other 'fun' changes. So five or so years from now when resale Riviera prices drop...but not quite enough for DVC's tastes...only allowing resale buyers to book at 8 months seems a logical next step. DVC is caught in a mug's game of increasing the benefits of direct contracts which reduces the value of resale contracts which lowers resale prices which makes buying direct less attractive...and round and round it goes.

Six months ago I thought I might buy at Riviera if the gondolas took me to EPCOT and HS in a reasonable timeframe. A couple of months ago I thought I might buy resale. Now there is no way I would buy any DVC contract outside the 'original 14' unless it was SO special that I could be confident of its value (e.g. a fixed holiday week for a resort that led straight into HS/GE).

 

[TexasChick123]

I don't like any of the things that DVD is doing to restrict resale purchases as I am a "resale-only" owner. I don't think the resale value of Riviera is going to bottom out as much as some think it will. I don't even know if it will take a hit despite my thinking it should with all of the restrictions. I need ALL of the information before I can decide what I want to do about buying Riviera. Will they allow resale owners to make their points whole for a nominal amount? Will they say you can only stay at Riviera with those points, end of story? We don't know yet. I think it is too early to decide on such things as the resale value without all of the information.

Regarding all of the new restrictions, I think it is just plain greedy by DVD. Is it so greedy that I will never buy anything direct? Quite possibly. Will they keep introducing new restrictions one right after another, or did they just do this so that they can "let up" on some of the restrictions and look like heroes despite being villains like it's all a game? Who knows?!? That's kind of where I am right now when I think about all of this.

 

[Frederic Civish]

I don't like any of the things that DVD is doing to restrict resale purchases as I am a "resale-only" owner. I don't think the resale value of Riviera is going to bottom out as much as some think it will. I don't even know if it will take a hit despite my thinking it should with all of the restrictions. I need ALL of the information before I can decide what I want to do about buying Riviera. Will they allow resale owners to make their points whole for a nominal amount? Will they say you can only stay at Riviera with those points, end of story? We don't know yet. I think it is too early to decide on such things as the resale value without all of the information.

Regarding all of the new restrictions, I think it is just plain greedy by DVD. Is it so greedy that I will never buy anything direct? Quite possibly. Will they keep introducing new restrictions one right after another, or did they just do this so that they can "let up" on some of the restrictions and look like heroes despite being villains like it's all a game? Who knows?!? That's kind of where I am right now when I think about all of this.

I was planning on buying Riviera Direct, probably as soon as sales opened. I have even been saving up a considerable sum of money for it. Then Disney started all of this new nonsense. Now I would not buy there Direct, no matter what. Or any future Disney Resort, so long as Disney keeps doing what it is doing. BUT, I might wait and see if resale prices for Riviera drop like a stone. If they do, then in a few years, I will scoop up a nice fat Riviera contract on the cheap. Congratulations Disney. You have turned a Direct buyer into a Resale buyer. And you aren't getting any more of my DVC purchase money.

 

[cruisin5]

Isn't the option to book your non-home resort a guarantee on the old L14 contracts?

If their intention is to kill the resale market then the only way IMO is to offer real, significant perks to direct buyers. Perks that make you think that over the next 20 years the price difference won't be significant. Park discounts, longer FP+ window, longer ADR window. And only give the perks to those who purchase the majority of their points directly.

 

[sndral]

I was planning on buying Riviera Direct, probably as soon as sales opened. I have even been saving up a considerable sum of money for it. Then Disney started all of this new nonsense. Now I would not buy there Direct, no matter what. Or any future Disney Resort, so long as Disney keeps doing what it is doing. BUT, I might wait and see if resale prices for Riviera drop like a stone. If they do, then in a few years, I will scoop up a nice fat Riviera contract on the cheap. Congratulations Disney. You have turned a Direct buyer into a Resale buyer. And you aren't getting any more of my DVC purchase money.

I was in the same camp - just needing an Epcot resort to complete my ‘portfolio.’ Historically new DVC resorts have hung on to their resale value, so why not just buy direct when I’m there in Dec. if I like it (unfortunately I’ve not been very excited about the photos of the resort) but now - no. DVC’s behavior, even ignoring the legal issues, just feels cheap and shady, I’m not interested in doing business with a bunch of shysters.

 

[CarolynFH]

Isn't the option to book your non-home resort a guarantee on the old L14 contracts?

If their intention is to kill the resale market then the only way IMO is to offer real, significant perks to direct buyers. Perks that make you think that over the next 20 years the price difference won't be significant. Park discounts, longer FP+ window, longer ADR window. And only give the perks to those who purchase the majority of their points directly.

Good ideas, but complicated by the fact that those perks require consent/cooperation with other WDW divisions whose priorities are different. Longer FP and ADR windows are probably easier to negotiate than park discounts that reduce revenue for the Parks division, but DVD would most likely need to develop perks that they could control and ensure continuity.

 

[zavandor]

Isn't the option to book your non-home resort a guarantee on the old L14 contracts?

Not really, only until your resort is in the club. They might decide to remove your home resort from the club and you'd be able to book only your home resort. Such decision is really extreme and couldn't be taken on a whim, they would have to justify it as something in the interest of the members. So I'd say it's pretty safe, but it is not a legal guarantee like booking your home resort is.

 

[skier_pete]

I really wanted for quite a while to get more points - but I am turned off by all the shenanigans as well. The changes are a real turn-off. But what I am really scared for is the day that they change resale so that you cannot book at the 11-month window and perhaps are only able to book at 10-months. I would kind of want to pick up a contract before that happens, because that would essentially destroy resales ability to book studios. It makes me almost feel like I should pick up a contract as a precaution to this, even though I don't really need more points right now...

 

[TexasChick123]

I really wanted for quite a while to get more points - but I am turned off by all the shenanigans as well. The changes are a real turn-off. But what I am really scared for is the day that they change resale so that you cannot book at the 11-month window and perhaps are only able to book at 10-months. I would kind of want to pick up a contract before that happens, because that would essentially destroy resales ability to book studios. It makes me almost feel like I should pick up a contract as a precaution to this, even though I don't really need more points right now...

What resort would you be looking to add on?

I am thinking the information about Riviera is going to be announced on Monday morning because of the "scheduled maintenance". It's a much shorter window than they usually do. It's just a theory, but I think it's a good one considering they're starting public tours on Wednesday. From their perspective, you get the info on Monday, tour on Wednesday, decide that you like it, and go back to the sales center ready to purchase. I don't know if you can actually purchase starting next week, but I really think all the info will come out on Monday.

 

[ScubaCat]

I really wanted for quite a while to get more points - but I am turned off by all the shenanigans as well. The changes are a real turn-off. But what I am really scared for is the day that they change resale so that you cannot book at the 11-month window and perhaps are only able to book at 10-months. I would kind of want to pick up a contract before that happens, because that would essentially destroy resales ability to book studios. It makes me almost feel like I should pick up a contract as a precaution to this, even though I don't really need more points right now...

Not to stray off topic, but I just have to say, I LOVE Disney logic.

What you effectively said is: "I was going to buy it, but I'm not so sure now, so I'd better just hurry up and buy it ASAP just to be safe even though I don't really need it."

Makes perfect sense to me!

 

[skier_pete]

Not to stray off topic, but I just have to say, I LOVE Disney logic.

What you effectively said is: "I was going to buy it, but I'm not so sure now, so I'd better just hurry up and buy it ASAP just to be safe even though I don't really need it."

Makes perfect sense to me!

Not quite what I meant. More like "I decided not to buy - but now I am thinking twice based on what else they might take away next time." And either way I'm not buying at Riviera.

 

[skier_pete]

What resort would you be looking to add on?

I am thinking the information about Riviera is going to be announced on Monday morning because of the "scheduled maintenance". It's a much shorter window than they usually do. It's just a theory, but I think it's a good one considering they're starting public tours on Wednesday. From their perspective, you get the info on Monday, tour on Wednesday, decide that you like it, and go back to the sales center ready to purchase. I don't know if you can actually purchase starting next week, but I really think all the info will come out on Monday.

If I was ever to add on again, I would either add more points at AKV, or maybe at BLT but only after I stayed there. (One of the few resorts I haven't stayed at.) I look at higher value contracts, and ones that owning give you a premium for getting "harder to get" room categories. We just booked our fourth AKV value reservation and also booked twice at BWV (our other resort) for standard rooms. A factor you rarely see calculated in "value of owning at resorts" is the access to the lower point category rooms. BLT ownership would get access to the standard rooms, which trade-ins do not.

 

[TexasChick123]

If I was ever to add on again, I would either add more points at AKV, or maybe at BLT but only after I stayed there. (One of the few resorts I haven't stayed at.) I look at higher value contracts, and ones that owning give you a premium for getting "harder to get" room categories. We just booked our fourth AKV value reservation and also booked twice at BWV (our other resort) for standard rooms. A factor you rarely see calculated in "value of owning at resorts" is the access to the lower point category rooms. BLT ownership would get access to the standard rooms, which trade-ins do not.

BLT is one of my home resorts, and we’ve already added on points there. It’s honestly a wonderful resort. I LOVE those standard category rooms. It’s such an amazing resort. We added in before we stayed there and don’t regret it one bit!

 

[cruisin5]

We had a great stay at BLT last week, it has quickly become my favorite resort. Looking forward to September in a TPV room. Looked at adding on but I want to retire someday. I don't know how young families buy in at these rates. I think our HHI points were less than $70 in 2001.

 

[Frederic Civish]

Dirty Disney. I hope they are reading this. Behind the illusion of a cute mouse is a disgusting sewer rat.

You have come up with the perfect 'New name' for Disney, and I am going to use it frequently: Dirty Disney, the sewer rat.

 

[Frederic Civish]

I think the pay for play model drives down future resorts resale prices but also provides a floor to them because people know they could pay to play if Disney adds it. . . . I still think the changes are generally unwelcome and lack goodwill.

Or, at least it could 'set a floor' price for Riviera Resales, and people would know that 'at least they could pay to play,' that is, until Dirty Disney decides to change the rules again. After all, they can do ANYTHING they want. Right?

 

[crvetter]

Or, at least it could 'set a floor' price for Riviera Resales, and people would know that 'at least they could pay to play,' that is, until Dirty Disney decides to change the rules again. After all, they can do ANYTHING they want. Right?

Sure the floor could move just as Disney is already doing and been doing since the beginning. This is already the purpose of ROFR, sets a floor price for resale currently. But in theory the floor of the DVC Resorts is much less than they are currently priced, and ROFR is setting them higher. In reality the floor is a function of the CRO for the resorts at the base minimum so in worse case that is what Riviera will always be functionally related to at worse.

Though I would recommend if you wanted Riviera unrestricted and there is a pay for play model to make resale whole the resale purchaser should add it on right away. If this ever happened.