Northeastern dismisses 11 students

As they should. There are rules and consequences. They knew them, ignored them, and learned a valuable lesson. I hope nothing is reduced on appeal and the punishment is actually increased if they appeal to include paying any legals fees for the school.
 
The rules in dd’s college town is no more than 12 for indoor gatherings, she has 5 roommates but there are 6 bedrooms, 5 bathrooms, much different than one hotel room with a bathroom.

my ds shares a bathroom with 3 other guys. 4 bathrooms for 10 and they share a kitchen and living room.They all hang out with each other, especially now since they really can’t go anywhere else. it’s not like they all just stay in their rooms and never share the same space, I guess not every school is like your dd’s
 
my ds shares a bathroom with 3 other guys. 4 bathrooms for 10 and they share a kitchen and living room.They all hang out with each other, especially now since they really can’t go anywhere else. it’s not like they all just stay in their rooms and never share the same space, I guess not every school is like your dd’s
I think the difference is would those other people who actually live in the townhouse be considered guests like what's being discussed? I rather doubt that. The description of the place above is actually the reason some greek houses at my alma mater have been quarantined for 14 days even when not all have tested positive because the risk of exposure to each other due to the living situation is high.

In the case of the Northeastern students each room because of the living situation is like its own self contained residence. Therefore anyone who is over inside that hotel room would be considered a guest rather than having the ability to freely move between the rooms at least the way the wording is from the University it seems that way.
 


My kid would be working to pay back that money, I can guarantee that. This momma doesn't play that game.
I don't know how you'd enforce that. $36,000 could easily take 36 years for an independently living entry-level & non-college educated worker to pay back. Most at that level earn just enough to get by.

Would you really expect your child to give up that much of his or her life to repay you, as punishment for being peer-pressured into attending a party?
 
I don't know how you'd enforce that. $36,000 could easily take 36 years for an independently living entry-level & non-college educated worker to pay back. Most at that level earn just enough to get by.

my kid must be missing a calling as a financial adviser if this is the case b/c she's managed to repay $12k in student loans over the past 18 months with an entry level barely above minimum wage (50 cents above) job while living independently. was it easy? no, she took every minute of overtime offered/volunteered to trade anyone for their holiday shifts so she could get time and a half. it's not easy but it can be done.
 


The students at Northeastern are being tested for Covid every 3 days. I would think the benefit to such dramatic measures would be that students could get together in small groups. I know it's not the policy, it's not what they signed, and not the rules. I'm just saying, I think the rules are oppressive. And, like everything else this year, such oppressive rules are....wait for it....UNPRECEDENTED. (I am so sick of that word) In these unprecedented times, I would have preferred to see more of a slap on the hand for a first offense.

I would like to add to this that was does have precedent is students signing a code of conduct in which they pledge not to drink alcohol on campus, and when caught, they are do not forfeit 36K and go home. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this, just that a longstanding precedent exists.
 
. But, they knew what they signed up for and apparently it was made clear that certain rules had to be followed.

I can't speak specifically to Northeastern on this, but I have 2 in college in 2 different states and both schools re-wrote the rules and conditions repeatedly throughout the summer. It had a little bit of a bait and switch feel to it. Once students were committed, loans were taken, bills were paid roommates were chosen, etc. the conditions under which the students would have to live were changed. What this means is that at some colleges, students arrived to find themselves signing codes of conduct that contained rules and language that they were not aware of when they decided to live on campus, and were potentially seeing for the first time.

As I said, it felt very bait and switch. I don't think it was, it was probably learning as we go how to live in a pandemic. But since these schools have been given an awful lot of latitude as they learn their way, I would hope to see them behave in kind.
 
The students at Northeastern are being tested for Covid every 3 days. I would think the benefit to such dramatic measures would be that students could get together in small groups. I know it's not the policy, it's not what they signed, and not the rules. I'm just saying, I think the rules are oppressive. And, like everything else this year, such oppressive rules are....wait for it....UNPRECEDENTED. (I am so sick of that word) In these unprecedented times, I would have preferred to see more of a slap on the hand for a first offense.

That's the problem - kids are so used to the "slap of a hand" kid glove treatment that no one thinks the rules are for them.

Seeing how at my ds's school he is living in a campus townhouse with 9 other kids I do think it's kind of crazy to not allow 11 kids to get together and hang out.
Having said that, if the students agreed to those rules when they registered for the semester then it's just how it is. If you don't agree to the rules then don't go to that school, it's pretty simple.

I hope those other 9 students are practicing safe behavior. That sounds like a hot mess if one of them screws up and then they all have to quarantine!

I would like to add to this that was does have precedent is students signing a code of conduct in which they pledge not to drink alcohol on campus, and when caught, they are do not forfeit 36K and go home. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this, just that a longstanding precedent exists.

Drinking alcohol (underage) is illegal, but not contagious.
 
I would like to add to this that was does have precedent is students signing a code of conduct in which they pledge not to drink alcohol on campus, and when caught, they are do not forfeit 36K and go home. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this, just that a longstanding precedent exists.

The difference is that getting caught drinking means you endangered yourself (and possibly others if you drove). Parties that could spread Covid around campus endanger the whole university - both by putting others who didn’t attend the party at risk and because a big enough outbreak could shut the semester down and cause the school unrecoverable financial problems.

The penalties are different because the level of potential damage is different.
 
That's the problem - kids are so used to the "slap of a hand" kid glove treatment that no one thinks the rules are for them.

I agree, but still think the legal precedent is a factor, were this to go to court.
 
$36,500 "fine" for a first offense? Seems too harsh!

I'm guessing murderers, armed robbers, rapists, and drunk drivers get off with lesser consequences.....
They could be responsible for substantially reducing the value of that $36,500 investment for every other student on campus (if cases spike and they have to switch to online classes). So I'm in favor of harsh penalties here.
 
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I think the difference is would those other people who actually live in the townhouse be considered guests like what's being discussed? I rather doubt that. The description of the place above is actually the reason some greek houses at my alma mater have been quarantined for 14 days even when not all have tested positive because the risk of exposure to each other due to the living situation is high.

In the case of the Northeastern students each room because of the living situation is like its own self contained residence. Therefore anyone who is over inside that hotel room would be considered a guest rather than having the ability to freely move between the rooms at least the way the wording is from the University it seems that way.

I get that they are guests but again my ds was put in to a "home" with 9 strangers 3 weeks ago. So they were all guests at one point in time. They also do not go everywhere together which means they are all going to their classes and to the dining hall and to (possibly)other's dorms or frat houses as individuals not as one big group. They are still at risk of exposure and exposing their housemates just like any other group of students who may just get together for a night in a hotel room.
I get why it's different at NE however I still think it's extreme to kick out a group of 11 for getting together. If you don't then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
The students at Northeastern are being tested for Covid every 3 days. I would think the benefit to such dramatic measures would be that students could get together in small groups. I know it's not the policy, it's not what they signed, and not the rules. I'm just saying, I think the rules are oppressive. And, like everything else this year, such oppressive rules are....wait for it....UNPRECEDENTED. (I am so sick of that word) In these unprecedented times, I would have preferred to see more of a slap on the hand for a first offense.
That would have been untenable. Enforcement, if it is to be done at all, must be uniform. How do you expel the next set of students who violate the rules if you have only lightly reprimanded those before them? :confused3 Harsh indeed but much better for going forward to have made an example of them.
 
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I can't speak specifically to Northeastern on this, but I have 2 in college in 2 different states and both schools re-wrote the rules and conditions repeatedly throughout the summer. It had a little bit of a bait and switch feel to it. Once students were committed, loans were taken, bills were paid roommates were chosen, etc. the conditions under which the students would have to live were changed. What this means is that at some colleges, students arrived to find themselves signing codes of conduct that contained rules and language that they were not aware of when they decided to live on campus, and were potentially seeing for the first time.

As I said, it felt very bait and switch. I don't think it was, it was probably learning as we go how to live in a pandemic. But since these schools have been given an awful lot of latitude as they learn their way, I would hope to see them behave in kind.
Northeastern and most other universities have policies that permit 100% refund of tuition if the student withdraws prior to the start of college. In northeastern they had until 3 weeks into the semester to withdraw and receive 100% refund in tuition.
I can’t imagine anyone who has not been in coma for the past six months thought that colleges would start as normal. If rules change that they didn’t like they had a choice to withdraw and either apply last minute elsewhere, attend community college for a semester or year, take a gap year and work etc.
There are a lot of reasons students can be expelled from colleges - and not receive refunds. Hazing, academic dishonesty, illegal drug use on campus, criminal activity. I had a man in my law school class 2nd semester third year who was expelled for lying on his application to law school. It was discovered while he was applying to take the bar exam. No refunds.
 
I get that they are guests but again my ds was put in to a "home" with 9 strangers 3 weeks ago. So they were all guests at one point in time. They also do not go everywhere together which means they are all going to their classes and to the dining hall and to (possibly)other's dorms or frat houses as individuals not as one big group. They are still at risk of exposure and exposing their housemates just like any other group of students who may just get together for a night in a hotel room.
I get why it's different at NE however I still think it's extreme to kick out a group of 11 for getting together. If you don't then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
My first comment was it was a steep punishment, it is. On the other hand, we're under circumstances such that colleges attempting to keep their campuses open, attempting to have in-person classes, well they have to likely go to the extremes just to do that. But that's also why in my first comment I mentioned the University will need to be consistent.
 
I can't speak specifically to Northeastern on this, but I have 2 in college in 2 different states and both schools re-wrote the rules and conditions repeatedly throughout the summer. It had a little bit of a bait and switch feel to it. Once students were committed, loans were taken, bills were paid roommates were chosen, etc. the conditions under which the students would have to live were changed. What this means is that at some colleges, students arrived to find themselves signing codes of conduct that contained rules and language that they were not aware of when they decided to live on campus, and were potentially seeing for the first time.

As I said, it felt very bait and switch. I don't think it was, it was probably learning as we go how to live in a pandemic. But since these schools have been given an awful lot of latitude as they learn their way, I would hope to see them behave in kind.
Bait and switch is NOT applicable here. I know it's used to describe a lot of situations but the actual definition of bait and switch is seldom used correctly.

Additionally the students were required to review the handbook, which did state they could not have guests in their rooms.

As far as your last statement, I'm not entirely certain that really applies here. What's 'learn as you go' about not having guests in your room? What's 'learn as you go' about wearing masks and social distance (which means keep 6 feet apart)'? What's 'learn as you go' about not being in a crowd? I can understand feeling like there's a constant change (and for many of us that is still going on) but the rules they were in violation of are ones that have been existing for long enough and their concepts not necessarily ones hard to understand, that is different than feeling like you don't want to adhere to them (which I think is more your point) because of in the past xyz occurred without the same abc end result.
 
That would have been untenable. Enforcement, if it is to be done at all, must be uniform. How to you expelled the next set of students who violate the rules if you have only lightly reprimanded those before them? :confused3 Harsh indeed but much better for going forward to have made an example of them.
Also: If this group gets a slap on the wrist, why would anyone else on campus take the rules seriously? It sucks to be the group that was made an example of but expelling these 11 students will encourage the rest to follow the rules.

In my college days we did a ton of stuff that was against the student handbook and the punishments were light. If they were more severely enforced... we might have followed the rules.
 
Exceptions to the tuition refund date are made all the time.

I have been in higher education for over 50 years. This is about age and life experience. What is most infuriating to me as I watch the messes unfold over college campuses across the country is that the administrations knew this would happen. This is what kids in this demographic do... they congregate. That is why they want to be on a college campus. All the value added comes primarily from the social.

The financial status of institutions of high education is horrific... programs cut, staff and faculty let go. This is a cash grab. Get them on campus, take their money and when they do what the administration knows they will do, blame the students. It’s a win win for them. They get the money and no responsibility.

In this case, the punishment far exceeds the crime. Cries of “kill the beast” will not fly here and that is precisely why it will be reduced on appeal.
 

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