Northeastern dismisses 11 students

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Exceptions to the tuition refund date are made all the time.

I have been in higher education for over 50 years. This is about age and life experience. What is most infuriating to me as I watch the messes unfold over college campuses across the country is that the administrations knew this would happen. This is what kids in this demographic do... they congregate. That is why they want to be on a college campus. All the value added comes primarily from the social.

The financial status of institutions of high education is horrific... programs cut, staff and faculty let go. This is a cash grab. Get them on campus, take their money and when they do what the administration knows they will do, blame the students. It’s a win win for them. They get the money and no responsibility.

In this case, the punishment far exceeds the crime. Cries of “kill the beast” will not fly here and that is precisely why it will be reduced on appeal.

The value was not added purely by social. I would not have been able to get anywhere near my psychology knowledge with a closed campus. My senior year both semesters I helped a grad student with her study. I ran her study the first semester (which TBH I don't know if that would have been allowed during COVID times) which for her was just students filling out questionnaires on racism and stereotypes. The second semester her and I worked on coding the results of the study. My husband was in aerospace engineering and without the ability to be in the labs or go to a nearby hangar his experience would not have been the same and as far as social..lol it's a well known stereotype (true or not) that engineers often don't have that social component due to their studies. Reminds me of this I ran across a week or so ago:


One thing I will note is the social distancing, avoiding crowds, and wearing masks is prevalent in many places at the present moment. It's been the go-to advice for quite a while from our Health agency, various health officials, and certainly many local health departments. I realize that adhering to those is an issue for all ages but simply being a student shouldn't mean you are incapable of adhering to them.

 

[mom2rtk]

Exceptions to the tuition refund date are made all the time.

I have been in higher education for over 50 years. This is about age and life experience. What is most infuriating to me as I watch the messes unfold over college campuses across the country is that the administrations knew this would happen. This is what kids in this demographic do... they congregate. That is why they want to be on a college campus. All the value added comes primarily from the social.

The financial status of institutions of high education is horrific... programs cut, staff and faculty let go. This is a cash grab. Get them on campus, take their money and when they do what the administration knows they will do, blame the students. It’s a win win for them. They get the money and no responsibility.

In this case, the punishment far exceeds the crime. Cries of “kill the beast” will not fly here and that is precisely why it will be reduced on appeal.

Sure kids congregate. But we've never before (at least not recently) had to see how these kids will behave in a pandemic, knowing that the school's ability to stay open for in person classes was dependent on their ability to follow the rules.

As for "all the value added" coming from social stuff? We must just come from different perspectives on this. I couldn't disagree more. Sure it's important. But reducing it down to that is just not accurate.

I'm embarrassed for the kids who couldn't follow a few simple rules for a while. Parents on my daughter's school's family Facebook page are whining about how hard it all is. Well, much about a pandemic is indeed hard. But asking kids in a time of crisis to avoid groups of a predetermined and agreed to size? Not even close to hard. Not the least bit shocking to me any more though after reading all the parents arguing for their kid's right to party (not here, on the parents FB page).

 

[BOST99]

As an alumni of Northeastern and resident of Boston, I'm completely biased and totally in support of kicking them out. Northeastern was prepared for this and students were warned.


Apologies if someone else posted this and I missed it but I think this background is important to understand the level the school went to ahead of time. A couple of weeks ago an incoming Freshman sent out a survey to others asking if they would follow Northeastern's rules or still go to parties. The school found the survey and reached out to participants and parents ahead of time to make sure they knew the requirements and consequences. No one has said if any of the 11 were these kids but my point is that NU was clear from before school started and was proactive in trying to stop this behavior.

Here in MA, we still are going very cautiously. They were also violating our indoor requirements which I think right now is capped at 8 people. There could be agreements between the university and the hotel (so not to be shut down) or between the school and city/state on how they will be handling violations.

 

[Debbie Jean]

Sure kids congregate. But we've never before (at least not recently) had to see how these kids will behave in a pandemic, knowing that the school's ability to stay open for in person classes was dependent on their ability to follow the rules.

As for "all the value added" coming from social stuff? We must just come from different perspectives on this. I couldn't disagree more. Sure it's important. But reducing it down to that is just not accurate.

I'm embarrassed for the kids who couldn't follow a few simple rules for a while. Parents on my daughter's school's family Facebook page are whining about how hard it all is. Well, much about a pandemic is indeed hard. But asking kids in a time of crisis to avoid groups of a predetermined and agreed to size? Not even close to hard. Not the least bit shocking to me any more though after reading all the parents arguing for their kid's right to party (not here, on the parents FB page).

We will agree to disagree, I guess.

These are good kids who don't always connect the dots due to age and inexperience, especially but not limited to freshmen.

Example: study rooms in the library have a clearly marked limit of 2 per room. Last Friday I stopped four who were toting additional chairs which had been removed. Set them up in a study room. Guess I should have reported them since this is grounds for dismissal on this campus and they signed the "pledge". Busted two last week sitting close without masks in a study room. Also grounds for dismissal.

I love these kids... but I am realistic in terms of expectations.

Hey, my daughter toilet trained herself at 14 months... I understand the exception to the rule. Most children in that demographic don't do that. I was always grateful that I had the one who did... certainly never judged parents whose children were more typical.

 

[JimMIA]

$36,500 "fine" for a first offense? Seems too harsh!

I'm guessing murderers, armed robbers, rapists, and drunk drivers get off with lesser consequences.....

It's painful, for sure -- but it's not a "fine," and penalties for criminal acts are completely irrelevant.

It is the loss of tuition and fees paid because they violated the terms of the agreement.

The students paid tuition to attend college, while agreeing to comply with the college's rules and regulations -- just like every other college student on the planet. Northeastern made the promised classes available to the students and upheld their end of the contract. The students violated the rules and got kicked out. Therefore, their tuition for the Fall term was lost by their own voluntary actions. No refund.

Yes, it's a harsh lesson, but they knew and agreed to the terms beforehand.

 

[Debbie Jean]

As an alumni of Northeastern and resident of Boston, I'm completely biased and totally in support of kicking them out. Northeastern was prepared for this and students were warned.


Apologies if someone else posted this and I missed it but I think this background is important to understand the level the school went to ahead of time. A couple of weeks ago an incoming Freshman sent out a survey to others asking if they would follow Northeastern's rules or still go to parties. The school found the survey and reached out to participants and parents ahead of time to make sure they knew the requirements and consequences. No one has said if any of the 11 were these kids but my point is that NU was clear from before school started and was proactive in trying to stop this behavior.

Here in MA, we still are going very cautiously. They were also violating our indoor requirements which I think right now is capped at 8 people. There could be agreements between the university and the hotel (so not to be shut down) or between the school and city/state on how they will be handling violations.

I get that... I'm in northern New Jersey right outside NYC so understand the caution. Our number of cases/deaths and restrictions have been more severe than Massachusetts.

BTW, grew up in from JP, went to the New England Conservatory and my dad got his engineering master's at Northeastern. No diss there from me there.

But the punishment has to fit the crime. My feeling... and I'm betting in the end... the students will be disciplined. But the penalty will be reduced to fit the crime given extenuating circumstances.

 

[SmallWorld71]

As an alumni of Northeastern and resident of Boston, I'm completely biased and totally in support of kicking them out. Northeastern was prepared for this and students were warned.


Apologies if someone else posted this and I missed it but I think this background is important to understand the level the school went to ahead of time. A couple of weeks ago an incoming Freshman sent out a survey to others asking if they would follow Northeastern's rules or still go to parties. The school found the survey and reached out to participants and parents ahead of time to make sure they knew the requirements and consequences. No one has said if any of the 11 were these kids but my point is that NU was clear from before school started and was proactive in trying to stop this behavior.

Here in MA, we still are going very cautiously. They were also violating our indoor requirements which I think right now is capped at 8 people. There could be agreements between the university and the hotel (so not to be shut down) or between the school and city/state on how they will be handling violations.

MA indoor gathering has been at 25 for a while now. Even when things were stalled/ rolled back that stayed at 25. They did not break any state rules; they broke NU rules.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bo...assachussetts-gathering-rules-coronavirus/amp
Personally, I don’t have a problem with them being told to leave the dorms, but I think they should be allowed to continue their coursework remotely. It still sends the message about gatherings and I don’t think anyone wins in the scenario where their education is delayed.

 

[J'aime Paris]

It's painful, for sure -- but it's not a "fine," and penalties for criminal acts are completely irrelevant.

It is the loss of tuition and fees paid because they violated the terms of the agreement.

The students paid tuition to attend college, while agreeing to comply with the college's rules and regulations -- just like every other college student on the planet. Northeastern made the promised classes available to the students and upheld their end of the contract. The students violated the rules and got kicked out. Therefore, their tuition for the Fall term was lost by their own voluntary actions. No refund.

Yes, it's a harsh lesson, but they knew and agreed to the terms beforehand.

I put "fine" in quotes because I know it's not actually a fine.
But I disagree that it's irrelevant to comparing to penalties for criminal acts.

Theses are young adults....mostly good people I'm guessing. They made a poor choice.
Who among us hasn't made a poor choice, especially in our late teens/early 20s?????
I know I made some mistakes along the way in life.

I stand by my statement that they are being treated "worse" than real criminals....and I find that backward...

 

[mom2rtk]

My alma mater Northwestern is only having upper classmen on campus. Freshmen and sophomores will be online only. In an unusual move, they are offering a 10% discount for the online classes. Not big, until you realize annual tuition is up to $58K.

I believe they are "up to" 19 cases now. But I also don't think classes start for another couple of weeks.

Apparently fraternity and sorority houses are closed. That's huge. And I'm kind of shocked. Northwestern certainly has a very active Greek community. That tells me they're taking this seriously.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

I mean in my opinion, you got to know when to hold them and know when to fold them. Same with listening to the rules. When your actions cost many $1ooo's and much more importantly the health and possible lives of others and yourself, that would be the time you follow the rules.
Don't get me wrong I agree it is a cash grab for opening all these schools, but still that would just make me follow the rules more.

 

[mjkacmom]

My alma mater Northwestern is only having upper classmen on campus. Freshmen and sophomores will be online only. In an unusual move, they are offering a 10% discount for the online classes. Not big, until you realize annual tuition is up to $58K.

I believe they are "up to" 19 cases now. But I also don't think classes start for another couple of weeks.

Apparently fraternity and sorority houses are closed. That's huge. And I'm kind of shocked. Northwestern certainly has a very active Greek community. That tells me they're taking this seriously.

My daughter’s university has a big Greek community, fraternity and sorority houses on campus are closed, but there are off campus ones. She started pledging again, sending me photos of all of the swag and surprises her big is getting her.

 

[PollyannaMom]

Gov. Baker was just asked about this in a press conference. He baked up Northeastern.

 

[aprilgail]

My alma mater Northwestern is only having upper classmen on campus. Freshmen and sophomores will be online only. In an unusual move, they are offering a 10% discount for the online classes. Not big, until you realize annual tuition is up to $58K.

I believe they are "up to" 19 cases now. But I also don't think classes start for another couple of weeks.

Apparently fraternity and sorority houses are closed. That's huge. And I'm kind of shocked. Northwestern certainly has a very active Greek community. That tells me they're taking this seriously.

Right now at northeastern it is -
Tests Completed
65,872
Negative Tests
65,839
Positive Tests
33

My daughter attends college there and Northeastern was VERY clear about what was against the rules, it was no shock that 11 kids in one hotel room was against the rules. My daughter is off campus and they have people visiting the off campus kids to make sure they have no visitors gathering etc- my daughter ended up going virtual and is going back and forth between CT (boyfriend), Boston and NY this semester, she didn't want to stay in Boston if she couldnt hang out with her friends there and didn't want to get caught and in trouble and expelled so she did what is best for her.

 

[mom2rtk]

Right now at northeastern it is -
Tests Completed
65,872
Negative Tests
65,839
Positive Tests
33

My daughter attends college there and Northeastern was VERY clear about what was against the rules, it was no shock that 11 kids in one hotel room was against the rules. My daughter is off campus and they have people visiting the off campus kids to make sure they have no visitors gathering etc- my daughter ended up going virtual and is going back and forth between CT (boyfriend), Boston and NY this semester, she didn't want to stay in Boston if she couldnt hang out with her friends there and didn't want to get caught and in trouble and expelled so she did what is best for her.

My post was about Northwestern, not Northeastern. But those numbers are impressive. Good for them doing what they have to do to keep school open. Can't say how Northwestern's plan is working out since school hasn't started there yet. I thought it was of note though since they were actually discounting tuition for online courses.

 

[SmallWorld71]

Gov. Baker was just asked about this in a press conference. He baked up Northeastern.

Right now at northeastern it is -
Tests Completed
65,872
Negative Tests
65,839
Positive Tests
33

My daughter attends college there and Northeastern was VERY clear about what was against the rules, it was no shock that 11 kids in one hotel room was against the rules. My daughter is off campus and they have people visiting the off campus kids to make sure they have no visitors gathering etc- my daughter ended up going virtual and is going back and forth between CT (boyfriend), Boston and NY this semester, she didn't want to stay in Boston if she couldnt hang out with her friends there and didn't want to get caught and in trouble and expelled so she did what is best for her.

So, I guess the message is college kids must be closely monitored. Other people in the city can do whatever they want? The hypocrisy in Boston right now is out of control.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nb...-dorchester-super-spreader-party/2189456/?amp

 

[Pea-n-Me]

From Boston.com

Was Northeastern right to suspend 11 first-year students and keep their tuition? Here’s what 6,000 readers said.

https://www.boston.com/news/educati...stern-suspending-students-and-keeping-tuition

 

[mom2rtk]

Honestly, I'm fully expecting Northeastern to give back some of the money in the appeals process. They probably figured, why not start with that and let all the other students know just how serious this is.

 

[JimMIA]

I put "fine" in quotes because I know it's not actually a fine.
But I disagree that it's irrelevant to comparing to penalties for criminal acts.

Well, the only comparison I see is that neither the action by Northeastern nor the usual penalties for crimes you mentioned (murder, rape, armed robbery, etc) are "fines."

The normal penalties for murder, rape, and armed robbery are not "fines," but LONG terms in state prison (up to LIFE), or in some circumstances, death.

I think there is an argument to be made about the $36,000 forfeited being pretty harsh. But it's nothing like the normal prison sentences for the crimes you mention. And I agree with others that at least some of those fees are likely to be refunded.

But if Northeastern sticks to their guns on their disciplinary action, those students are still going to have a huge issue on their transcripts -- suspended for a semester for violations of university rules. That kind of thing certainly isn't going to look good on their graduate school applications!

 

[Debbie Jean]

But if Northeastern sticks to their guns on their disciplinary action, those students are still going to have a huge issue on their transcripts -- suspended for a semester for violations of university rules. That kind of thing certainly isn't going to look good on their graduate school applications!

Except that, as I understand it, these are all freshmen so they have no academic transcript from Northeastern. And were they my advisee, I would certainly encourage them to find a different institution and reapply for admission. No transcript need be sent from Northeastern in that case. Whether a student chooses to divulge the information would be their choice. In any case, it would certainly be a non-issue by the time they applied for graduate school... if they even decided to go that route.

 

[mom2rtk]

Except that, as I understand it, these are all freshmen so they have no academic transcript from Northeastern. And were they my advisee, I would certainly encourage them to find a different institution and reapply for admission. No transcript need be sent from Northeastern in that case. Whether a student chooses to divulge the information would be there choice. In any case, it would certainly be a non-issue by the time they applied for graduate school... if they even decided to elected to go that route.

A gap year certainly won't be hard to explain away in 2020.