OT - ADD/BI-Polar Child-long

[Biscuitsmom31]

I thought maybe some of the parents on here would understand my complete frustration right now. My 9 year old son has screaming, bawling fits at school, he has since preschool. He is one of those super impulsive kids that acts without any forethought and then when there is a consequence he has an all-out FIT because he believes that nothing is ever his fault. He has been taking adhd medication for a couple of years but the fits continue. Don't think for a moment he hasn't been disciplined. We have actually taken away his birthday, all of his toys, television, computer--even the pictures off his walls. It always upsets him in that moment and he vows to be good tomorrow but the behavior never changes - no matter who he is with. Well, the teacher he has now begged me to get an official diagnosis so the school could accomodate him better. I told her that I didn't want him branded forever and doped up on a bunch of pills. She said that I needed to whatever was necessary for him to be able to function at school, and that as it is he is not functioning. So, I paid to have him tested and diagnosed. I had to fill out a survey, his teacher filled one out, and he took an attentiveness test. We got the results today. He failed the attentiveness test, and my survey showed significant problems in several areas BUT would you believe the very teacher who badgered me into this testing scored him completely NORMAL???!! Ironically, at the same moment I was being told that he didn't need medication because the teachers results were normal, he was being suspended from school for biting a kid and kicking two cars.

Thanks for listening.

 

[SueOKW]

who did you pay to have him tested? the school? should you have had to pay for that?

9 years old is a little old for that behavior - - in my mind. Have you considered counseling for him? I have no idea if insurance would cover it. I would have him tested by professional psychologists - not teachers. Things can be turned around, and medication isn't always the answer.

sorry you are having a rough time. my thoughts are with you!

 

[Biscuitsmom31]

He was tested by a certified child psychologist. Trust me I realize that is too old for that behavior. He goes to a counselor but he's not certified to diagnose him. My father and younger sister are both bi-polar. I've seen this kind of behavior before, and I truly believe that there are wires crossed inside his brain.

 

[Alexsma]

Please remeber you have to right to request an evaulation from your school. Don't be affaid to label your child, if you child needs help he should get it. There are also possibly differnt ways to help your child based on what he needs. Check out the file"Who's IDEA is this?" Its on the US Dept of Educations website. It will tell you what your child is entitled too.

 

[JenJen]

I totally understand what you are going through and it is very exhasting and very frustrating. He does need a diagnoses because he NEEDS an IEP. They are awesome. My kids are my step kids and they were diagnosed very late and struggled through school. Now one has a 4.0 and the other went from F's and D's to B's and C's. Also with the No kid left behind act if your child does not pass certain test they do not graduate unless they have a IEP and the test can be modified.
Don't think of it as a label or that your child is less then they are because of there diagnoses. Kids that are Bipolar, ADHD, and in the Autistic specrium in general have Higher IQ's then those without these condtions. THey are extremely bright but have to learn differantly. I am sure your son has these tantruims because he is frustrated with himself and does not know what is going on. Being able to explain why they feel the way they do can help tremendously. They then don't feel like they are just a bad kid. I know my DS use to always say. "I don't want to be a bad boy anymore." He did not know he had learning disabilities until 2 years ago so he just thought he was bad. That was because his biological parents did not want him labled so they did not get him the help he needed. They felt they were helping him but what they did not realize is that they were hurting him. Now that he understands why he does some of the things he does he is thriving. He knows he is not a bad kid he just has to do things a bit differantly.
I urge you to get the diagnoses and get the help that your son and you deserve. It is nothing to be ashamed of. I can almost bet you he is the smartest kid in his class The behavior problems will start to taper a bit when he comes to an understanding of what is going on with him. I wish you the best of luck!
(((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Jennifer

 

[Biscuitsmom31]

Thank you Jennifer. I can tell from your post that you understand. I am just very frustrated at the moment because I just tried to get him diagnosed and the very teacher who pushed so hard to have me get him diagnosed filled out her survey so conservatively that it came out normal. I don't know if she just didn't want to hurt our feelings or what but now I feel like I'm back at square one. I am tired of living in denial and I want to get him exactly what he needs. You are right, he is the smartest kid in his class. We dismissed his behavior as immaturity for a long time because he skipped kindergarten and is in class with children who are a year older than him. I really regret letting them move him up a grade now. When they gave all the kids the "kindergarten test" they discovered that he was already reading at a 5th grade level - at 4 years old. I was so proud to have such a gifted son that I didn't want to believe anything was wrong with him. I'm past that now. I'm going to arrange for a sit down with his teacher and prinicipal tomorrow. I'm going to ask about an IEP.

 

[SueOKW]

He was tested by a certified child psychologist. Trust me I realize that is too old for that behavior.

Sorry - of course i knew you knew, it just came across the wrong way.

anyway.. sorry if i offended!!! I didn't mean to make it sound like it did.

sue

 

[tink2dw]

I know what ADHD girls are like and I know ADHD boys are very different in that the boys are less able to express themselves hence the behavior problems happen more often with boys. I said all that to explain that my ADHD Dd starting talking very early and can express herself and her problems in terms that I as a Normy can understand.

What she has told me since she was 2 yrs old is she NEEDS me to be on her side. Period. To stand up for her when she is trying her best because she trys so hard ALL the time even if it doesn't look like it to me. It took till 5th grade for me to become fully aware what goes on at school, what an anti- teacher she had that year. That teacher did years of damage to my child and because she was a TEACHER Dd believed her over us her loving parents and her truely concerned Dr. It took another AWESOME TEACHER to convince Dd that the first teacher wasn't anywhere near right about how much Dd could do and learn.

So I become my childs Best Advocate I stood up and fought for her rights and Fought the system to get her what she needed to learn.

This is what she told me goes on in her head. You see if you could PAY ATTENTION and get All the info you would need?

All the file drawers are open spilling papers everywhere in her brain, 3 radio stations are playing a different type and kind of song at the same time plus 1 more station has only static on it. The other students in the class sound very loud and she hears each conversation seperately but at the same time and can follow all of them at once.Through this din she has to pick out the teachers voice and try to hear and follow directions. But she can't find the buttons to turn off the radios they are stuck on. The music isn't so bad but the static station is way too load. And the niose of the other students is horrible hard to make queit. So, she has to have the teacher or Me repeat things 3 times so she is sure she got all the info, as a mother I got use to this.

What the medication does for her is to make it so she can tune out the other students somewhat and turn down the static and music enough that they are a low roar in the background. And can concentrate more on the teacher.

Ritalin worked but it made her over emtional with her girlfriends. So beware of this with your child!

But Teachers immeadate are offended by having to repeat things 3 times and of course it is the childs FAULT. The spilled files are all she has learned, but because they are unorganised it takes her longer to take out the info to do homework or take tests. Plus she is a perfectionist everything needs to be done just EXACTLY as the teacher taught it or she is totally lost. Oh yes she has a photographic mind. But where Dd's learning difficutilty comes in is that she learns it, retains it, But then can't get it back out of her head on to paper. Which is what our state says teachers must grade on!!!!!!! If they could grade on oral work the child would get straight A+'s because she can tell what they learned that day and explain to me so I understand it.


An IEP is great IF teachers will do what it says, most won't!! Because they would have to teach all the other students one way and then come back and teach your child differently and they can't be bothered!! Or if your child only does part of the work I HAVE to dock her grade because the other students did it all. How I hated that system!!

Dd is now in Comm College where she is learning ASL -American Sign Laugage as a foreign laug. And although her 1st love is Theatre Tech[no acting, but all the behind the scenes work.] She has decided to become a Sign laugage Interpeter for Medical offices[That so,so teacher should see Dd know! She is working extra hard to learn all the medical terms! She impressed her LPN father tonight with some of her new knowledge. He beamed!!] and Legal offices with a certificate. She can work now without a certificate and be paid $35. an hour but it is more dollars with the certificate and she will be able to work more places. She goes to the Deaf church and loves the silence at their services. She says it is a relief to be there where it is so utterly quiet. She has many deaf friends now,too. And she chats as much in sign as she does with her hearing freinds,and is a lot!!

This is a book that really helped my husband and I find our way with ADHD and how to pick our fights well. I learned that if your child needed glasses that of course you would take him to get the best glasses for him. Well, ADHD needs to be looked into and treated with the same concern and care you would take with his precious eye sight!! Only in this case we need special communication skills to help our children. Dd gave me the sight to see what each and every day was like for her. And that she was trying hard and that is what we ask her to do, try hard and do your best. Which is all any of us can do.
This the book.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0449001520/randohouseinc-20/102-2547789-4350569

I know this long. But I so wanted to share our on going story with you. We are going to work on teaching Dd how to Organize her room, she has finally ask for this. And maybe it will carry over to the file drawers in her brain. Sometime it works.
We will see.

I hope this will of help to you and your child and may, it spark some, one on one quiet chats about what he lives with in his head. It has ALWAYS been the queit mother/daughter chats when I have been able to teach Dd the lessons that have stayed with her [don't take drugs,smoke, drink because it is way harder to stop than it is to start.and so on.]and have become part of the wonderful person she is. Now I can you tell that those quiet talks were sometimes preceeded by loud fighting matchs. But most were in that hour after school when we had a few minutes before homework and Dad's arrival home.

One more important thing. Dd would never learn certain things from me such as manners, to wear proper clothes or homework. But she flurished when she went to modeling school,and after payng $1500.00 She said oh I guess you did know!! But it took that extreme for her to see that maybe Mom might know a thing or two.But to me it was money well spent. Know if you have this problem I suggest, asking friends to help, or do what I did and pay someone. But do all you can to help them in spite of themselves!! It will pay off.

please feel free to pm me if you want to.

 

[captsparrowslady]

Hi, I'm the A.D.D. daughter of Tink2dw. My mom told me about your frustrations with your son. I can understand what you and your son are going through. I've had to struggle all my life with being ADD. I also understand your concern about giving your child a label. One thing that I've had to fight and prove to people is that ADD does NOT mean retarded or stupid. It just means that we [ADD Kids and adults] just think different. We will come to the same answer as you, but we will get there a different way and the journey there may take us a bit longer. Everything in an ADD child's brain works completely opposite compared to a normal person. For example, if I were to drink coffee in the mornings, you would think that I would be awake and up and on my caffeine buzz, right? Wrong! Caffeine does the opposite. It will make me feel more tired. That's because chemically, my brain is wired differently than a normal person's. My advice to you is don't be afraid of labeling your son. Yes, it will be a struggle and some people will look down on him, BUT he will get the help he needs. He will go from being labeled as a lazy, unmotivated student with behavioral problems to a boy who is struggling with a learning disability, that is not only in school but at home, with his friends, in his every day life. There will be teachers who disagree with the system and believe that ADD is a cop out, that it's not a real disorder. But trust me, believe me when I say that it is a real problem that kids and adults have to struggle with every single day. It's not just a class room issue, it's something I have to deal with 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, every single year. There is no break, but there are ways to deal with it. For me, I was on Ritalin from the time I was about 7 until I was 13, then I was on my own for a while.

When I was 15 I tried some holistic ways to help myself, now that I'm an adult in college, I've gone back to a prescribed medication. Your son is lucky, now there are more options of ways to treat ADD. When I was a kid, it was pretty much some kind of holistic method or Ritalin. I'm glad my parents put me on Ritalin, until I hit puberty when I was 13, it worked. I still struggled, but it made things easier. I went from having the attention span of a 5 year old when I was 10, to having the attention span of somebody more my age. During the time when I was taking no form of medicine I learned how to do things so that it could work for me. Also I'm not ashamed of being ADD it's just a part of who I am. The more I understand the way my mind works, and the kind of learner I am the better off I am, as will be your son. Once I was able to verbalize the way my brain worked to my mom, she better understood my frustrations. If you can open up a dialogue with your son by asking him how he feels when he’s trying to do his school work and ask him if he could think about how his mind works you will be more in tune to your son and why he does the things he does. You will become a better advocate for your son. For me, the way my brain works, like my mom described, is very chaotic. I have about 50 million songs running through my head all at once, plus random facts thrown about, plus I’m thinking about all the things I need to do for that day or the next day, all of the information stored in my brain is just thrown about in no specific way and is very disorganized, and if I’m in a class room setting, I’m unwillingly paying attention to every little conversation around me, and in between all that I’m trying to listen to the teacher, take notes, and do my class work. It’s very frustrating to say the least. But in elementary school, middle school, high school and now college, I have been able to get the help I need so all those internal and external “background noises” are quieted down and I am able to have the extra help. In elementary school, I had to go to special ed for math because I was behind my peers. Now I am good with math…I still have some trouble with it, but I am at the same level as my peers. I am what I like to call C.D. …… Calculator Dependant lol.

In Middle school, I was able to have modified class work and home work. I was to do only the starred items. Just to let you know, everybody’s paper had the stars next to the questions, so it wasn’t like the teacher made it a point to single me (or any other special needs kid) out and embarrass me in front of my peers. In high school, I was given extra time on things if I needed it and if I asked for the extra help from the teacher, they were expected to help me. Now I will be honest, I did have some teachers unwilling to give me that extra help, but I have also had teachers that really cared and devoted their time and effort in helping me to achieve and do good in their class. My 5th grade teacher was horrible. At 10 yrs old she told me I was dumb, stupid and shouldn’t even try because I am ADD. That really has affected me over the years. I took what she said to be true. I had to over come that. My freshman English teacher had one way of teaching and would not bend at all. Her idea of teaching was to lecture about the subject then have you do the class work and if you have a problem ask your classmates BEFORE you go to her. That’s all fine and dandy if the student has friends in the class, but I didn’t. I would raise my hand and ask her for help and she would respond with “Have you asked your peers for help first?” Of course I would say no, and then she would tell me to ask them first and if they couldn’t answer my questions then raise my hand and ask her. Now, I’m not telling you that to scare you, it’s just a part of my reality. I’m not saying those exact situations will happen to your son, but as is life, we all will have our Nay-Sayers. That’s just part of reality unfortunately. But rising above and proving the Nay-Sayers wrong is how we become stronger.

Even though I had a few bad teachers, I had more teachers that I loved and adored. My weakness is English class because of all the essays required for the class. My sophomore year my school introduced a new way of writing essays. It was called chunk paragraphing. The concept was simple enough, Topic Sentence, Concrete Detail, 2 commentaries and then a concluding sentence. And that equaled a 1 chunk paragraph, it could become more complex by adding more concrete details and commentaries but that’s beside the point. When that system was introduced, I was completely lost and confused. I was sure I was going to fail. But my teacher, she was the most wonderful English teacher I’ve ever had. Every single day, Monday - Friday, she stayed after with me helping me write my essay. That’s the first and only time in high school I passed English with…if memory serves me correctly a B or C. Before that it was F’s and D’s.

My math teacher has got to be one of the best teachers ever. She understood that kids learn in different ways. Some kids learn by listening, some by watching, some by doing, and some by feeling. Also, nobody learns in just one way. It’s usually a combination of all of them, but one or two will be stronger than the rest. With her every day teaching she would teach in a way that would cover all the ways you can learn. And if a student still did not understand, she would sit down and teach the students individually until they understood then once the student understood she would tell that student to help somebody with the same problem they were having. So to sum all this up, don’t be afraid to get your child the help he needs because of what others might say. Also learn to be your child’s advocate. Open a dialogue with your son, learn from him how his mind and brain works and what his difficulties are. Once your son can understand how he learns, and how his brain functions the better off he will be. I hope the words of wisdom, experience, and advice will help you and any other parent struggling with an ADD child. If anybody needs or wants to talk to me please feel free to contact me. I am always willing to be a friendly ear to hear you and offer any advice I can.

As Always…Take What Ye Can…Give Nothin’ Back!
Capt. Sparrow’s Lady.

 

[BriNJ]

BiscuitsMom,
It sounds like things are very hard right now, for everyone and most especially your little boy. Between the fact that your family has a history of bi polar disorder and the behavior your son is exhibiting, I'd get him evaluated for BPP as soon as you possibly can. BPP in children does not look the same as it does in adults or teens. Children with BPP are often very intelligent, quick learners, charasmatic personalities. Very common symptoms include: distractability, hyperactivity, frequent mood swings, rages and explosive temper tantrums, agressive behavior, oversensitivity, grandiosity, failure to take responsibility for actions, restlessness and fidgeting, difficulty waking in the morning, impulsivity and risk taking behaviors. These are the very common, there are more things to look for.

Many children with BPP are diagnosed as ADHD- and that makes it worse because most medications for ADD/ADHD are not appropriate for a child with BPP. In fact, these medications make things worse.

My son is similar to what you describe of your son. Mine is 5 and we were told that if the symptoms are still present at 6, he needs to be evaluated for BPP. Most of the symptoms were gone by 4, but I will still have him evaluated. My family has a history of depression and alcohol abuse and that puts him at risk.

I dont blame you for being frustrated with the school- it sounds like they are not clear, even to themselves, about the whole process. You have the right to a full evaluation, to be performed by the child study team. Your teacher should be a contributor (as should you) but the eval should be impartial and based on his behavioral history, information from you and his teacher etc. If you aren't comfortable with the school doing the eval, you may want to find a psychiatrist who can dx and if appropriate, prescribe medication. I know you are worried about that (who wouldnt be?) but it sounds like your son is struggling hugely right now and he can't be happy. Whatever it takes to help him is worth it.

If I can help at all, please let me know. PM me at any time.

Hugs
Bri

 

[JenJen]

captsparrowslady I just want to say your post is nothing short of Amazing!!!! Thank you so much for helping others understand!
((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
Jen

 

[captsparrowslady]

Thanks JenJen. It seems to me the only time I can write anything worth reading and of good quality is when I write about something I'm passionate about. So again thank you for the kudos. You did well to boost my self-esteem and confidance. *smile* :

As Always...Take What Ye Can...Give Nothin' Back!
CaptSparrowsLady

 

[Ambassador]

Regarding the school and the IEP process: We began innocently in trusting the school and its counselors to provide the best education for one of our little delegation with special needs. In the second year of the plan, we realised that the plan and dedicated resources were insufficient, and that we needed to push harder; the 'squeaky wheel' got the grease. We request plan review meetings more often, and bring our own advisors including therapists, psychologist and professional advocate with us in attendence.

After all this time, we have not yet arrived at a specific diagnosis. On the advice of one advocate, we have been careful to try to avoid labels of 'anxiety' or 'bi-polar' at this point in time, accepting 'learning disability' instead. Our school is more accepting of this, and Ambassador Jr. is mainstreamed in the classroom with an aide, as opposed to separated into a secluded small special-ed group.

You might also consider if there may be a sensory-integration issue, as is the case with Amb Jr., who has responded well to OT.

Our PTA has a Special Education Services (SES) committee, which has benefitted us tremendously, as well as other parents who have travelled the same road before us.

 

[Biscuitsmom31]

Thank you all so much for your encouragement! I am going in tomorrow to meet with his teacher and principal. I'm going to need all of the backbone I can muster. I believe he is as frusted with his behavior as we are, if not more so. He had a strings concert tonight at the school. I was sitting in the audience with my other two children. Before the concert started the teacher was setting things up, etc. and most of the children were chatting amongst themselves, patiently waiting for show time. He, on the other hand, was awkwardly running around the stage waiving his bow in the other kids faces and swinging his violin around precariously. I had to get up from my seat twice and walk up to the stage and tell him to calm down and get in place. Both times he looked shocked, as if he didn't know what he was doing wrong, said "Sorry Mama!" and ran to his spot. Then, before he was in his spot long enough to cast a shadow, he was off again engaging in more antics. I thought that program would never start. Finally, when the program started, he stood perfectly still and played his violin with complete concentration and intensity. It was beautiful. As soon as the music stopped, he was bouncing off the walls again.

 

[mlwear]

I would flat out ask the teacher to justify asking you to have him tested because he couldn't function at school and then giving him a score that indicates he has typical behaviors. Perhaps, you should take a blank teacher input form in case she would like to consider her answers more carefully.

Put aside your worry of the label. Focus on the needs of your child. If he doesn't have a label, but cannot function properly as an adult what good did keeping him label free do? I know it is very hard, though.

I started to write a long post, but you have already received a lot of good information. I don't understand if your son is diagnosed as ADHD or bipolar OR both? My oldest son has an IEP and has listed disabilities of Other Heath Impaired (ADHD) and ED (emotionally disturbed) bipolar. He also has a gifted IQ and is in the gifted program and classes at school. He disability label is in question and may be something different--another topic. His IEP is a tremendous help. He would be swalled up by the school system without it.

Feel free to PM me if I can be of any help.

 

[SaratogaShan]

Hugs to you. Sometimes it takes more than one round of testing to get the correct diagnoses. Bipolar disorder is very hard to diagnose in children because they tend to be rapid cyclers....their moods can change at the drop of a hat! Most adults have the more identifiable periods of mania and depression. Anyway, my nephew is bipolar. He began with banging his head on the floor at age two, has always had impule control issues, can be violent at times. He was originally diagnosed with ADD and medicated for this......BAD NEWS! Symptoms got much worse. Finally on meds for bipolar depression AND moved to a self containes classroom for a while for more one on one attention and more structure to his day for a while. He is now age nine and doing MUCH better. Grades are great. Social interaction improving, much better impulse control. He is being mainstreamed back into regular classes (slowly). Anyway, said all this just to say...there is hope! What a difference a good diagnoses and the correct environment can make. Stay strong and insist that your child get what he needs to reach the potential that you know he has!