Permit Filed: "Project S" at Epcot

[AtlantaDisneyDreamer]

To be honest, you CAN have the character spots in EPCOT but are you going to start changing over things in a park that its not meant for? For example, if you want characters, go to Magic Kingdom, characer spots etc.
Bring it into EPCOT, we have test track, universe of energy, living with the land, soaring, all have zero character interaction side from maybe a character or two from their respective countries which is a "disney touch"
IMO EPCOT is supposed to be something different from the Magic Kingdom, MGM Studios, Animal Kingdom. Innoventions is supposed to be showing technology of the future (like to see that come back TBH). Living with the land shows how to farm in the future (or it did at least).
The next argument I'd say is "What about Norway and Frozen?" well didnt the actual country of Norway no longer want a hand in a disney park? to that extent? So whats disney to do but plop something from the franchise. I'm being long winded but bare with me I'm almost done.
Future world needs to become what it was intended to do (from watching the vacation planning videos of the 90s). Innoventions needs to be overhauled and the idea needs to still be there of introducing people to the new technologies of tomorrow but be constantly revamped as the future progresses. I'd add some ideas but I'll let the imagineers take over on that part
Yes the cute doggy I loved from my childhood is old, tired, and worn out, but nothing says we cant take what we used to have and revamp it and make it to what it used to be (or the idea at least)

Innoventions could be so cool if it were sponsored by Google, Apple, or Tesla.

 

[amberpi]

I think I'm too sober for this discussion...I need to be watching illuminations with a cold drink right now...

I think 80% of my conversations are like this, because Illuminations and a cocktail IS the answer.

 

[HopperFan]

To be honest, you CAN have the character spots in EPCOT but are you going to start changing over things in a park that its not meant for? For example, if you want characters, go to Magic Kingdom, characer spots etc.
Bring it into EPCOT, we have test track, universe of energy, living with the land, soaring, all have zero character interaction side from maybe a character or two from their respective countries which is a "disney touch"

IMO EPCOT is supposed to be something different from the Magic Kingdom, MGM Studios, Animal Kingdom.

Innoventions is supposed to be showing technology of the future (like to see that come back TBH). Living with the land shows how to farm in the future (or it did at least).

The next argument I'd say is "What about Norway and Frozen?" well didnt the actual country of Norway no longer want a hand in a disney park? to that extent? So whats disney to do but plop something from the franchise. I'm being long winded but bare with me I'm almost done.

Future world needs to become what it was intended to do (from watching the vacation planning videos of the 90s). Innoventions needs to be overhauled and the idea needs to still be there of introducing people to the new technologies of tomorrow but be constantly revamped as the future progresses. I'd add some ideas but I'll let the imagineers take over on that part

Yes the cute doggy I loved from my childhood is old, tired, and worn out, but nothing says we cant take what we used to have and revamp it and make it to what it used to be (or the idea at least)

Just some thoughts to your points:

- Each park is very different and even if IP enters Epcot it can still be designed different.

- There are characters in all 4 parks now. That is not what makes them different, that is what makes them Disney. A&E brought the masses of young families to Epcot when they were first there, that was the beginning of Disney's awakening that the average guest is traveling to DISNEY World and wants it infused.

- Disney built Epcot Futureworld quite short sighted. The minute you build anything future it is already outdated. The only way to maintain a future world is to build something so far out (Guardians ...) that you don't have to update it each year. Futureworld was designed to fail, particularly when the first attraction you see in FUTUREworld is HISTORICAL ....

- No reason to argue about the countries financial involvement, other than Morocco. Businesses were the primary contributors. You have to remember that when this park was built there was no internet, no instagram, no snapchat, no facebook, no twitter ............ all these businesses don't need to pay Disney for tourism advertising, it can be done FOR FREE on the world wide web. This also meant guests could virtually visit which can be better than Epcot. WS needs to find it's new niche besides food, beverage and shopping ..... Disney adds popular attractions, guests will be booking dining and spending money.

- Again, the future can not be maintained unless you go the route of futuristic (and fantasy). Futureworld needs a whole new theme, one that can be maintained. Honestly we are stuck with Test Track and Soarin' and likely Mission. The rest can go by the way of a bulldozer.

I appreciate the Epcot fanbase, I love the park, other than all the walking it's my down chill days. It has just become outdated by the world around it. It needs some serious love and good long term planning. And I am sure whatever they come up with the fanbase will hate it. Epcot has close to the biggest capacity and if they add more attractions that will increase. Attractions, IP will bring guests and their dollars in ... that is the goal. Not to hold on to the past.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think 80% of my conversations are like this, because Illuminations and a cocktail IS the answer.

Illuminations is 19 years old...at some point it ISNT the answer

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Just some thoughts to your points:

- Each park is very different and even if IP enters Epcot it can still be designed different.

- There are characters in all 4 parks now. That is not what makes them different, that is what makes them Disney. A&E brought the masses of young families to Epcot when they were first there, that was the beginning of Disney's awakening that the average guest is traveling to DISNEY World and wants it infused.

- Disney built Epcot Futureworld quite short sighted. The minute you build anything future it is already outdated. The only way to maintain a future world is to build something so far out (Guardians ...) that you don't have to update it each year. Futureworld was designed to fail, particularly when the first attraction you see in FUTUREworld is HISTORICAL ....

- No reason to argue about the countries financial involvement, other than Morocco. Businesses were the primary contributors. You have to remember that when this park was built there was no internet, no instagram, no snapchat, no facebook, no twitter ............ all these businesses don't need to pay Disney for tourism advertising, it can be done FOR FREE on the world wide web. This also meant guests could virtually visit which can be better than Epcot. WS needs to find it's new niche besides food, beverage and shopping ..... Disney adds popular attractions, guests will be booking dining and spending money.

- Again, the future can not be maintained unless you go the route of futuristic (and fantasy). Futureworld needs a whole new theme, one that can be maintained. Honestly we are stuck with Test Track and Soarin' and likely Mission. The rest can go by the way of a bulldozer.

I appreciate the Epcot fanbase, I love the park, other than all the walking it's my down chill days. It has just become outdated by the world around it. It needs some serious love and good long term planning. And I am sure whatever they come up with the fanbase will hate it. Epcot has close to the biggest capacity and if they add more attractions that will increase. Attractions, IP will bring guests and their dollars in ... that is the goal. Not to hold on to the past.

See...you had me on the peaks of the waves...then crashed when you started pleading for mgm or magic kingdom.

The day where you see big crowds in all parks looking for IP...is the day the property jumps the shark. Bad longterm planning is trying to modify everything to the 30 second attention span of the spoiled. Flawed longterm.

...and you had some really good stuff in there.

 

[AtlantaDisneyDreamer]

- Again, the future can not be maintained unless you go the route of futuristic (and fantasy). Futureworld needs a whole new theme, one that can be maintained. Honestly we are stuck with Test Track and Soarin' and likely Mission. The rest can go by the way of a bulldozer.

I appreciate the Epcot fanbase, I love the park, other than all the walking it's my down days. It has just become outdated by the world around it. It needs some serious love and good long term planning. And I am sure whatever they come up with the fanbase will hate it. Epcot has close to the biggest capacity and if they add more attractions that will increase. Attractions, IP will bring guests and their dollars in ... that is the goal. Not to hold on to the past.

Hm. How about a new theme that centers around travel? Current Future World could be changed to a theme based around physical travel- by car, boat, airplane, hang glider, spaceship, (clamshell?) etc., while WS would not need much of a change- it is about places to which we can travel. Still have to creatively fit in Journey Into Imagination and Living with the Land, but I think it can be done.


Ideas for Themes (names for the land):

Journeys
Odysseys (ooh, I like this one)
Wanderlust (a strong desire to travel and explore the world)
Fernweh (stronger than wanderlust)
Trouvaille (a chance encounter with something wonderful)
Derive (a spontaneous and unplanned journey where the traveler is guided by the landscape and the architecture)
Wayfarer (someone who loves to travel)
Eudamonia (the happy state you strive for)

 

[Grace&Carolinesmom]

I believe the "S" stands for Sad.......as in Ellen's Energy Adventure is so out dated that it is just sad.....

AND a great segway to add I hope the new attraction would be based on the movie "Inside Out" representing the emotions (including SAD of course...) and memories that shape our decisions and experiences in life. I could see a really fun simulator experience where the ride would take a different course based on the emotions and memories selected by the users(riders). Could be very futuristic to fit into that niche of Epcot as well as a fun family group attraction.

ETA: Didn't Disney just patent some ride experience that would change based on the rider's emotions???

 

[lockedoutlogic]

AND a great segway to add I hope the new attraction would be based on the movie "Inside Out" representing the emotions (including SAD of course...) and memories that shape our decisions and experiences in life. I could see a really fun simulator experience where the ride would take a different course based on the emotions and memories selected by the users(riders). Could be very futuristic to fit into that niche of Epcot as well as a fun family group attraction.

They had that pavilion...it was called Wonders of Life...

...and they closed it without reason and raised ticket prices.

Yes...you can drop the blind faith and call that out...it's actually what needs to be done.

 

[jade1]

Most will never agree what should go into individual theme parks (can't even on this thread), I'm just happy US/WDW are spending Billions and Billions of dollars this decade (and beefing up IP's to use) just to make my already great vacations there even better. Loving it.

 

[HopperFan]

Hm. How about a new theme that centers around travel? Current Future World could be changed to a theme based around physical travel- by car, boat, airplane, hang glider, spaceship, (clamshell?) etc., while WS would not need much of a change- it is about places to which we can travel. Still have to creatively fit in Journey Into Imagination and Living with the Land, but I think it can be done.


Ideas for Themes (names for the land):

Journeys
Odysseys (ooh, I like this one)
Wanderlust (a strong desire to travel and explore the world)
Fernweh (stronger than wanderlust)
Trouvaille (a chance encounter with something wonderful)
Derive (a spontaneous and unplanned journey where the traveler is guided by the landscape and the architecture)
Wayfarer (someone who loves to travel)
Eudamonia (the happy state you strive for)

That would be interesting. I like Odysseys. I still think most of it needs a bulldozer so it would open them for lots.

I think I read that Eisner wanted to rename it Discoveryland and do changes.

The key is NO band-aids, be bold and bring in the wrecking ball.

 

[OSUZorba]

Just some thoughts to your points:

- Each park is very different and even if IP enters Epcot it can still be designed different.

- There are characters in all 4 parks now. That is not what makes them different, that is what makes them Disney. A&E brought the masses of young families to Epcot when they were first there, that was the beginning of Disney's awakening that the average guest is traveling to DISNEY World and wants it infused.

- Disney built Epcot Futureworld quite short sighted. The minute you build anything future it is already outdated. The only way to maintain a future world is to build something so far out (Guardians ...) that you don't have to update it each year. Futureworld was designed to fail, particularly when the first attraction you see in FUTUREworld is HISTORICAL ....

- No reason to argue about the countries financial involvement, other than Morocco. Businesses were the primary contributors. You have to remember that when this park was built there was no internet, no instagram, no snapchat, no facebook, no twitter ............ all these businesses don't need to pay Disney for tourism advertising, it can be done FOR FREE on the world wide web. This also meant guests could virtually visit which can be better than Epcot. WS needs to find it's new niche besides food, beverage and shopping ..... Disney adds popular attractions, guests will be booking dining and spending money.

- Again, the future can not be maintained unless you go the route of futuristic (and fantasy). Futureworld needs a whole new theme, one that can be maintained. Honestly we are stuck with Test Track and Soarin' and likely Mission. The rest can go by the way of a bulldozer.

I appreciate the Epcot fanbase, I love the park, other than all the walking it's my down chill days. It has just become outdated by the world around it. It needs some serious love and good long term planning. And I am sure whatever they come up with the fanbase will hate it. Epcot has close to the biggest capacity and if they add more attractions that will increase. Attractions, IP will bring guests and their dollars in ... that is the goal. Not to hold on to the past.

I think they could still do Future World, what is dead is companies paying huge sums of money to build and maintain areas while Disney makes money hand over fist from it. For innovations at least, I think you could get companies to provide information and equipment to show off their future tech and research if Disney was willing to actually foot the bill for the actual attraction/infrastructure. Disney just had a great gravy train going and doesn't want/know how to let go of it.

But as someone else said, in the day of the internet, companies aren't going to pay huge amounts of money to get their products in front of a relatively small audience, especially when Disney is making a ton of money. The exception is a quid pro quo, like Metlife had, and I am sure Disney buys a ton of Siemens controls and electrical equipment.

Companies are still developing really cool technology and pushing the envelope though, so I don't think the concept is played out. Edutainment is only getting more popular, too.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I agree with this. To me, the beauty of Epcot is not that it teaches you anything, but that it inspires you to learn more. That's why I am actually ok with the changes in Norway. It doesn't matter if Arendelle is a fictional city if it inspires people to learn more about the real Norway. Same for any of the countries in the WS. I studied German in college and spent some time in the country, partially inspired by my first visit as a young person to the "fake" Germany in WS. After my dad, an avid gardener, visited the "fake"Japan at the WS, he went back home and read and learned about Japanese gardens and built his own Japanese garden in our back yard. He even went to Japan for a year through an exchange program with the college where he taught. He had been inspired by his visit to Epcot.

Neither Spaceship Earth nor The Land teach us that much, but they certainly inspire me to read and learn more about history and farming and space because the rides make those things seem fascinating.

That's really how I view WDW as a whole: Inspirational. I can't say that I have learned a lot visiting the parks, but my visits there have inspired me to read and learn more and to be excited about things I may never have been previously excited about. That is one of the biggest challenges in education is getting people excited about learning. I think Epcot does that. At least, it does for me.

I very much agree with this and I would add I also think it is about getting people to think of the world beyond what they but then also reminding us that we aren't all that different and that we are all connected, etc (so expand your Horizons but It's a Small World after all)

In some ways World Showcase is like It's a Small World - but on steroids and with alcohol (I am sure some people would say they could use a drink for the original ride as well)

 

[TheMaxRebo]

That would be interesting. I like Odysseys. I still think most of it needs a bulldozer so it would open them for lots.

I think I read that Eisner wanted to rename it Discoveryland and do changes.

The key is NO band-aids, be bold and bring in the wrecking ball.

Discoveryland was part of the proposed Project Gemini - Future World would have become Discoveryland with half based on technology and half on nature ... and Spaceship Earth would have become a rollercoaster called Time Racers

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Discoveryland was part of the proposed Project Gemini - Future World would have become Discoveryland with half based on technology and half on nature ... and Spaceship Earth would have become a rollercoaster called Time Racers

That lined up with the rise of the internet...the collapse of sponsorship...the fallout of the American middle class...and Disney choosing to let it rot as a budgetary decision...

...and here we are 20 years later.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think they could still do Future World, what is dead is companies paying huge sums of money to build and maintain areas while Disney makes money hand over fist from it. For innovations at least, I think you could get companies to provide information and equipment to show off their future tech and research if Disney was willing to actually foot the bill for the actual attraction/infrastructure. Disney just had a great gravy train going and doesn't want/know how to let go of it.

But as someone else said, in the day of the internet, companies aren't going to pay huge amounts of money to get their products in front of a relatively small audience, especially when Disney is making a ton of money. The exception is a quid pro quo, like Metlife had, and I am sure Disney buys a ton of Siemens controls and electrical equipment.

Companies are still developing really cool technology and pushing the envelope though, so I don't think the concept is played out. Edutainment is only getting more popular, too.

Everyone here should read this and believe it...it happens to be the dead on truth. Truth and "opinion" are not equal and never will be.

 

[HopperFan]

Hm. How about a new theme that centers around travel? Current Future World could be changed to a theme based around physical travel- by car, boat, airplane, hang glider, spaceship, (clamshell?) etc., while WS would not need much of a change- it is about places to which we can travel. Still have to creatively fit in Journey Into Imagination and Living with the Land, but I think it can be done.

Discoveryland was part of the proposed Project Gemini - Future World would have become Discoveryland with half based on technology and half on nature ... and Spaceship Earth would have become a rollercoaster called Time Racers

I could see a kind of merging of some of these ideas of a possibility if they are bent on keeping the existing pavilions. Maybe morph to an Exploration type theme. Maybe exploring the world which ties into WS.

I've never been able to reconcile the strange grouping of "topics" in FutureWorld. It just doesn't work. Other than the popular rides there, the existing pavilions are dead.

I think they could still do Future World, what is dead is companies paying huge sums of money to build and maintain areas while Disney makes money hand over fist from it. For innovations at least, I think you could get companies to provide information and equipment to show off their future tech and research if Disney was willing to actually foot the bill for the actual attraction/infrastructure. Disney just had a great gravy train going and doesn't want/know how to let go of it.

But as someone else said, in the day of the internet, companies aren't going to pay huge amounts of money to get their products in front of a relatively small audience, especially when Disney is making a ton of money. The exception is a quid pro quo, like Metlife had, and I am sure Disney buys a ton of Siemens controls and electrical equipment.

Companies are still developing really cool technology and pushing the envelope though, so I don't think the concept is played out. Edutainment is only getting more popular, too.

I don't think they will ever coax companies back, it's not sound investment. As far as showing off their product, they are smarter than that, they know guests simply don't care. They will show off their product with targeted industry shows and partnerships direct with user type groups. They tried that and it didn't work.

I think it needs to move away from future, away from tech, away from educational of product .... make it more about humanity which below could do .. in a fun way.

I very much agree with this and I would add I also think it is about getting people to think of the world beyond what they but then also reminding us that we aren't all that different and that we are all connected, etc (so expand your Horizons but It's a Small World after all)

In some ways World Showcase is like It's a Small World - but on steroids and with alcohol (I am sure some people would say they could use a drink for the original ride as well)

I like this, a lot, especially in our world right now. I instantly think of the montage at end of Living with Land boat, Soarin' flying all over the world, Mission Space - we share the same, SE covers history round the world .... I think it would take some major re-imagining of the rest of the pavilions but it could happen and help tie it to WS which right now they are disconnected other than maybe Soarin'.

PS. Yes, alcohol would be a major perk to IASW.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

My children grew up visiting Epcot with us every year. They absolutely loved Epcot, primarily because it had so many things for children to do and discover. Every year Epcot seemed fresh to them because their understanding of the world grew as they grew, so the same experiences felt new every year. These were not rides - they were educational "experiments" that required child interaction. Epcot had countless areas focused on educating children. Now it has none of that. That is what I miss, and that would continue to draw in young families. Right now young families spend no time in Epcot because it really has nothing to offer them.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I've never been able to reconcile the strange grouping of "topics" in FutureWorld. It just doesn't work. Other than the popular rides there, the existing pavilions are dead.

Well, when EPCOT first started they made sense as they were all a view on the Future (but with look back to understand how we got to where we are and where we are going) - with each focused on one aspect (transportation, communication, imagination, agriculture, etc.) - with Horizons being the combination of all of them

But over time that has fallen away and I actually can get behind the idea of Discovery or Exploring - that is part of learning to so it can still fit with the Edutainment thought (which is obviously not the main focus of EPCOT anymore but I think still more a part of it than Magic Kingdom)

 

[HopperFan]

Well, when EPCOT first started they made sense as they were all a view on the Future (but with look back to understand how we got to where we are and where we are going) - with each focused on one aspect (transportation, communication, imagination, agriculture, etc.) - with Horizons being the combination of all of them

But over time that has fallen away and I actually can get behind the idea of Discovery or Exploring - that is part of learning to so it can still fit with the Edutainment thought (which is obviously not the main focus of EPCOT anymore but I think still more a part of it than Magic Kingdom)

It was called FutureWorld but I never felt it did a good job, as a whole, of showing us where we were going. And I think part of that is because you simply can't keep up with the future unless you are building futuristic. By time Disney finishes something it's outdated which is why classic attractions have longevity.

While some like @BuckeyeBama got the full learning part out of it ... Disney has to build for the average guest and guaranteed they just aren't interested. Look at Carousel of Progress, Hall of Presidents and most the exhibits in the World Showcase ........... empty, used for refuge from rain. The internet has changed the way folks learn and explore, cities with hand-on children and science museums, schools with STEM education, increases in big aquariums, well traveled families .... Epcot used to fill a void for many that just isn't there anymore.

Disney has to follow the demand in their parks for future construction. They are an entertainment company.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

It was called FutureWorld but I never felt it did a good job, as a whole, of showing us where we were going. And I think part of that is because you simply can't keep up with the future unless you are building futuristic. By time Disney finishes something it's outdated which is why classic attractions have longevity.

While some like @BuckeyeBama got the full learning part out of it ... Disney has to build for the average guest and guaranteed they just aren't interested. Look at Carousel of Progress, Hall of Presidents and most the exhibits in the World Showcase ........... empty, used for refuge from rain. The internet has changed the way folks learn and explore, cities with hand-on children and science museums, schools with STEM education, increases in big aquariums, well traveled families .... Epcot used to fill a void for many that just isn't there anymore.

Disney has to follow the demand in their parks for future construction. They are an entertainment company.

Those are all good points - the internet shows kids as much or more info on a given country than they can get at EPCOT (Different, sure, but a lot of info) .... and people just travel more. It used to be taking a flight was a big deal and people dressed up for it, etc. - now a lot of kids have been to Europe, etc.

I still love World Showcase and talking to the Cast Members that are from those countries, etc. - but obviously that is not how everyone does Disney