Possible removal of WeChat app in the United States

[bcla]

I have a lot of Chinese friends whose primary means on communications with family and friends is through WeChat, since other methods won’t work. I mentioned the possibility that communications to China were being monitored, and one friend said he didn’t care since that’s a given even when someone sends email, texts, or makes a phone call.

This would be devastating for a lot of people I know.

 

[China Expat]

I love wechat. Used it for 5 years in China, and use it now in the states to communicate with my boarding school's Chinese parents!

 

[JimMIA]

I have a lot of Chinese friends whose primary means on communications with family and friends is through WeChat, since other methods won’t work. I mentioned the possibility that communications to China were being monitored, and one friend said he didn’t care since that’s a given even when someone sends email, texts, or makes a phone call.

This would be devastating for a lot of people I know.

It would be a minor inconvenience...the loss of a smart phone app. They will communicate in other, less convenient, ways.

 

[wvjules]

Why is it being removed? Isn't removal/denial of access to apps more of a thing done in Communist countries?

 

[BrianL]

Why is it being removed? Isn't removal/denial of access to apps more of a thing done in Communist countries?

I haven't quite understood this myself. It seems to be about the potential for the Chinese government to take information from them at will, but I'm not sure that has actually happened. I really don't understand it, but I also don't use any of the affected apps.

 

[wvjules]

I haven't quite understood this myself. It seems to be about the potential for the Chinese government to take information from them at will, but I'm not sure that has actually happened. I really don't understand it, but I also don't use any of the affected apps.

I would understand not allowing it on government phones/devices, but as an individual, I think I should be able to have it if I so choose. China already has my information from the OPM breach. lol

 

[MillauFr]

Why is it being removed? Isn't removal/denial of access to apps more of a thing done in Communist countries?

Yes I would question if the US has the authority to do this. We need more freedom, not less.

 

[BrianL]

I would understand not allowing it on government phones/devices, but as an individual, I think I should be able to have it if I so choose. China already has my information from the OPM breach. lol

Right. Certainly if your phone is issued by a government agency, or any company for that matter, and they don't want it on there, then absolutely, but it seems like as long as they are transparent about how one's data may be used and the user agrees to that, then what's the issue? We give our data to companies (and governments) all the time. It's just part of the world now.

 

[JimMIA]

The reason given by the President is national security concerns. And one of the first proponents of banning TikTok and WeChat was Congressman Adam Schiff -- who led the impeachment prosecution of President Trump.

The fact that those two political figures agree on the issue makes me think there is substance to the security concerns.

But neither of them are active here on the DIS, so they probably don't know much as our posters.

 

[bcla]

Why is it being removed? Isn't removal/denial of access to apps more of a thing done in Communist countries?

The claim is that the Chinese government might have access to any communications, even though the company says that all information going through the US is stored in their Canadian and Hong Kong subsidiaries and never shared with the Chinese government. However, anyone using this to communicate with someone in China should understand that once the data passes into China that it could be monitored.

The order is supposedly that US companies can't do any transactions with the parent company Tencent. Not sure if there's any possibility of banning a working relationship with Tencent Pictures, which is one of the producers of some internationally financed movies like Wonder Woman, Bumblebee, A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, and the new Top Gun movie. However, the fear is that perhaps this order will shut down distribution of any Tencent app through Apple or Google - including in China. Also the possibility of dealing with Tencent gaming subsidiaries.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/7/21358252/tencent-wechat-ban-trump-executive-order-consequences​

We don’t know how banks and app stores will respond to the order or how Tencent itself is likely to retaliate. Any business with a Tencent ownership stake is potentially implicated since an abrupt departure of Tencent from the market could throw their financial situations into chaos in the midst of a global economic crisis. It’s hard to say precisely what the impact will be, but the sheer scope of the company’s investments shows how ugly things could get.​

​

Here is a non-exhaustive list of the companies and properties that Tencent owns or has investments in:​

• Tencent owns 100 percent of Riot Games, the developer of League of Legends
• Tencent is the largest minority owner in Fortnite and Unreal Engine developer Epic Games, with a 40 percent stake
• Tencent owns more than 80 percent of Supercell, the studio behind Clash of Clans
• Tencent publishes the mobile version of PUBG in China and owns more than 11 percent of developer Bluehole
• Tencent has single-digit stakes in various game studios, including Blizzard, Ubisoft, and PlatinumGames
• There’s another Tencent messaging app called QQ with several hundred million users, although it predates WeChat and originated as an ICQ-style instant messenger service for Windows
• Tencent’s production company and distributor, Tencent Pictures, is involved in major Hollywood productions like Wonder Woman, Venom, Terminator: Dark Fate and the upcoming Top Gun: Maverick. It also acts as a major film distributor within China, and owns minority stakes in a range of smaller production companies.
• Last year, Tencent struck a $1.5 billion five-year deal with the NBA to stream its games in China
• Snapchat owner Snap sold a 12 percent stake to Tencent in 2017
• Tencent owns about 14 percent of Kakao, which runs the Kakao Games platform and Kakao Talk, the most popular chat app in South Korea
• This year, Tencent bought a 10 percent stake in Universal Music Group
• Tencent has a 9 percent stake in Spotify, with the two partnering on Tencent Music in China

 

[bcla]

The reason given by the President is national security concerns. And one of the first proponents of banning TikTok and WeChat was Congressman Adam Schiff -- who led the impeachment prosecution of President Trump.

The fact that those two political figures agree on the issue makes me think there is substance to the security concerns.

But neither of them are active here on the DIS, so they probably don't know much as our posters.

His concerns were a bit more nuanced than you make it out to be. I can't find any indication that Schiff has ever called for the banning of TikTok or WeChat. He said to be careful with the sharing of personal information, which is a good idea regardless of the app.

https://www.foxla.com/video/833710

 

[bcla]

Why is it being removed? Isn't removal/denial of access to apps more of a thing done in Communist countries?

India banned TikTok and WeChat, but as a reaction to the skirmishes with China along their shared border.

 

[JimMIA]

If sharing videos and playing games are the biggest problems people have to worry about, they are very fortunate indeed. Those are trivial to me, but YMMV.

 

[bcla]

Right. Certainly if your phone is issued by a government agency, or any company for that matter, and they don't want it ont here, then absolutely, but it seems like as long as they are transparent about how one's data may be used and the user agrees to that, then what's the issue? We give our data to companies (and governments) all the time. It's just part of the world now.

The primary thing that people use WeChat for in the United States is to communicate with people in China. Some use it within the US and in expat Chinese communities around the world. And it's pretty much all ethnic Chinese communities including people with origins from Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia, etc. No matter what communication means is used (even via phone), it's safe to assume that the Chinese government will have unrestricted access once it goes through mainland China.

However, the fear is that this could be overarching since it mentions American companies doing transactions with Tencent subsidiaries. If Chinese Apple customers can't use Wenxin (the original Chinese version of WeChat) then Apple devices would start losing huge sales. I expect that Apple will fight this.

 

[bcla]

If sharing videos and playing games are the biggest problems people have to worry about, they are very fortunate indeed. Those are trivial to me, but YMMV.

TikTok is trivial, but WeChat is really a basic means of communications among many Chinese expat communities.

 

[JimMIA]

TikTok is trivial, but WeChat is really a basic means of communications among many Chinese expat communities.

If WeChat is a security threat, expat communities being forced to use a different phone app is trivial to me.

 

[bcla]

If WeChat is a security threat, expat communities being forced to use a different phone app is trivial to me.

There's no evidence of WeChat being any kind of national security threat. The question would be more of privacy concerns regarding any communications with China. Those are the same regardless of whether or not someone is using WeChat or directly connecting by phone.

And I'm not sure what is so illegal about company like Apple working with a Chinese company releasing an app meant for use in China by Chinese people under their laws. It just seems so unnecessary.

 

[Starwarsfan2]

Yes I would question if the US has the authority to do this. We need more freedom, not less.

A bit of hypocrisy here from someone who applauds mandated mask usage.
Don't get me wrong, I believe in mask usage and practice it, but mandated mask usage with threats of imprisonment are also less freedoms in the land of the free.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Silly season has definitely begun. What's next? League of Legends and Fortnite too? I doubt this order will stand up to judicial scrutiny. It isn't about national security because if China wanted your data, they can already just buy whatever they want from Google, facebook, twitter, or any number of apps that collect far more data on you than does Tik Tok. And they could do so quite easily and inexpensively. And it isn't a national emergency either because it doesn't take effect for 45 days.

A bit of hypocrisy here from someone who applauds mandated mask usage.
Don't get me wrong, I believe in mask usage and practice it, but mandated mask usage with threats of improsonment are also less freedoms in the land of the free.

Hypocrisy would be if she applauded mandatory mask usage but refused to wear one. Being against banning TikTok and for mandatory masks is not hypocrisy in the least. Two different things. Further, mandatory mask wearing in a time of pandemic increases genuine choice for all rather than decreasing it. It is no more restricting of freedom than traffic signals or stop signs or license requirements without which, the roads would be so chaotic, nobody would want to exercise their freedom to drive.

 

[MillauFr]

A bit of hypocrisy here from someone who applauds mandated mask usage.
Don't get me wrong, I believe in mask usage and practice it, but mandated mask usage with threats of improsonment are also less freedoms in the land of the free.

I would say that I try to follow the libertarian manifesto. You should be free to do what ever you want as long as it doesn't negatively affect others. I would say that mask mandates still fit within my understanding of libertarian ideals. Having the United States government control what apps I can use does not. This is not China nor should we even slide down that slippery slope and become more like the Chinese government.