Power Chair vs ECV

[cobright]

I've never (personally) heard of anyone's scooter getting stolen - as you know, they often get moved by CMs keeping the walkways tidy.

I've always sort of dismissed the idea of someone stealing a powerchair. We've parked a chair worth about what my car cost me for 2 hours outside an attraction without a thought. But then there was that stroller case a little while back and ... never underestimate humanity's capacity for awfulness and all that. Even so, as long as it's not too portable, I would still trust an ECV to be there when I get back.

Having said that... my personal ECV doesn't have a key! It's the one thing I wish it *did* have, because I would feel a tiny bit safer leaving it! LOL

A key switch can be installed no sweat. Can do it without modifying the chair at all.

 

[Duffy2008]

Thanks for both of your experiences. My scooter does have a key. I do like your idea of disconnecting the battery, that's a great idea. No one wants a scooter that doesn't scoot lol. I havnt named my scooter yet. I like the names you have picked.

Is there a spot at each attraction one should park at to not have a CM move your scooter? I try to look for the strollers that are neatly lined up Figueroa g a CM did it and I still come out of the attraction not knowing where my scooter is.Sometimes my husband has to go find it as I can't walk walk any more. I know most rides you can take your scooter through the que. but I can't sit all day either. I need to walk and sit.

 

[SueM in MN]

Thanks for both of your experiences. My scooter does have a key. I do like your idea of disconnecting the battery, that's a great idea. No one wants a scooter that doesn't scoot lol. I havnt named my scooter yet. I like the names you have picked.

Is there a spot at each attraction one should park at to not have a CM move your scooter? I try to look for the strollers that are neatly lined up Figueroa g a CM did it and I still come out of the attraction not knowing where my scooter is.Sometimes my husband has to go find it as I can't walk walk any more. I know most rides you can take your scooter through the que. but I can't sit all day either. I need to walk and sit.

If you are going to park your ECV, ask the CMs at the entrance to the attraction where you park it.
It might still be moved, but is likely to only be moved to a slightly different location. CMs usually move them to spots that are vacated as people leave attraction. That makes space for newcomers.

 

[mamabunny]

I've always sort of dismissed the idea of someone stealing a powerchair. We've parked a chair worth about what my car cost me for 2 hours outside an attraction without a thought. But then there was that stroller case a little while back and ... never underestimate humanity's capacity for awfulness and all that. Even so, as long as it's not too portable, I would still trust an ECV to be there when I get back.


A key switch can be installed no sweat. Can do it without modifying the chair at all.

Yeah... LOL we have talked about doing the key mod. The Hubs pointed out that it would be just one more thing we have to keep track of at Disney, and so for now, I am living dangerously LOL

I was really upset that about that stroller thief. I have a real problem with anyone who steals from kids to begin with - pick on people your own size. It's easy to fall into the Disney Bubble and just let everything... go. That's part of the reason that Disney World (and theme parks in general) are so addictive; you suspend reality and all of the responsibilities that go with it, and you just have fun and relax and let the real world fade away. When someone takes advantage of that, it just feels even worse - like a sacred space has been invaded.

@Duffy2008 Remember that you can always park your ECV in a central spot, and walk for a while, to stretch your legs. You can park in one spot, for example and easily do People Mover, Buzz Lightyear and wee bit o' shopping (and grab a hot dog!) all in just that one area of Tomorrowland at MK. Or, you can do a modified version of that, and just park outside each attraction, ride, shop or dining venue and walk in; using the ECV just to get between. Once you are there, you will quickly figure out what works best for you!

 

[Duffy2008]

Thats a good idea about asking the CM, thanks.

Im with you mamabunny, stealing a kid stroller is very low. Im not sure what this world has come too. Its sad. I like your idea of parking in a central spot and walking around. That sounds perfect.

 

[gap2368]

ove the great shocks on this model.

Has anyone had their scooters stolen while at the parks? Im wondering if I should lock it up some how. Its sad that I didnt worry about that when I was renting. But now Im wonder if they ever do get stolen in the parks?

I would not lock it I have seen CM cut locks that were on strollers so that they could move them. One thing you can do is buy a tracking device like this one, https://thelightbug.com. There are a number of them out there, This way you would know if some one stole it or if it is just a CM that moved it 5 feet to make room.

 

[mamabunny]

I would not lock it I have seen CM cut locks that were on strollers so that they could move them. One thing you can do is buy a tracking device like this one, https://thelightbug.com. There are a number of them out there, This way you would know if some one stole it or if it is just a CM that moved it 5 feet to make room.

@gap2368 that is a *brilliant* idea - a tracking device, like the one you linked to, or a Tile would be a great way to never "lose" your scooter! I'm going to do that before our next trip!

 

[Duffy2008]

CM cut a lock on a stroller to move it? What??? Oh my Im shocked at that. Maybe I shouldnt be. I love the idea of a tracking device. Thank you!

 

[lanejudy]

CM cut a lock on a stroller to move it? What??? Oh my Im shocked at that. Maybe I shouldnt be. I love the idea of a tracking device. Thank you!

It depends on the lock. You cannot lock a stroller TO something else (like a bike locked to a lamp pole). There are stroller locks that simply lock up the wheels making it difficult to push, but it can be moved. CMs must be able to move strollers (ECVs, wheelchairs, etc.) that are parked. Locks that completely prevent something from being moved are not allowed and may be cut.

Enjoy your vacation!

 

[Duffy2008]

Oh I see. I can understand it not being locked to something but locked so its not easy to roll.

 

[cobright]

Yeah... LOL we have talked about doing the key mod. The Hubs pointed out that it would be just one more thing we have to keep track of at Disney, and so for now, I am living dangerously LOL

For the powerchair my friend and I are working with, I went with an RFID tag reader for the switch. So she drops her purse in the basket and an RFID tag on her keychain unlocks the chair. Can even set it to unlock with magicband. It's not so secure as like the wireless automobile keys but at a certain point, 'good enough' becomes a real thing.

I would not lock it I have seen CM cut locks that were on strollers so that they could move them.

This is a real thing. Back in 2015 I was able to meet with some of the people from imagineering who run the Imaginations science and design competition and discus using technology to improve mobility tech inside the park. I brought up some ideas that would make using powered devices more attractive (safer and easier to drive) and one of the first responses was that CMs need to be able to move any mobility aid to accommodate changing parking area usage and foot traffic needs.

For my own part, our lockout system lets a CM press and hold the system button for 5 seconds to make it power up and then it will let itself be driven up to 300 feet then it shuts down and locks again with a 10 minute delay before it can be moved again.

 

[Duffy2008]

For the powerchair my friend and I are working with, I went with an RFID tag reader for the switch. So she drops her purse in the basket and an RFID tag on her keychain unlocks the chair. Can even set it to unlock with magicband. It's not so secure as like the wireless automobile keys but at a certain point, 'good enough' becomes a real thing.

Is there a brand or an item that is sold that you can easily *** the RFID tag too or was this something you made yourself? Sounds like a great idea.

 

[cobright]

Is there a brand or an item that is sold that you can easily *** the RFID tag too or was this something you made yourself? Sounds like a great idea.

I think I know what you're asking there. If this answer doesn't make sense then ... I guess I'm wrong.
There is an off-the-shelf solution for this, mostly anyway. I won't link it but if you search eBay for "RFID key access code control" you should get what you need for about $9 or $12 with a relay. I've used this, it works great. It comes with keychain tags. It's nearly self contained and ready to work right out the box. Downside is that it only responds to one type RFID tag format which is not the same type as magic and.

If you want to chase the rabbit down this hole you can pick up the 13mhz RFID reader and connect it to a hobbiest micro controller like Arduino and then control a relay connected to ecv battery or existing ignition switch. Or, you can actually use an Android phone as your RFID reader and control that relay from the phones USB port. This option requires a custom app running and the phone must support NFC applications like Android pay.

For my own project, it's closer to the middle option from that list. The things we are trying out are so varied and discrete, no one makes an off the self option that will fit into whatever bigger picture we come up with. As the ideas we put together require more and more computer thinking and things like computer vision and GPS, I think the end result will have an Android tablet core. When we started the goal was antilock braking and computer controlled acceleration to make driving the chair less jerky for her as her fine motor control degrades. Now her chair can remember a location and drive itself there (not that were letting that dog off the leash in public anytime soon) but anything you read about high end drones, I can make a power chair or ecv do that. The one feature we're really trying to get mainstream is high accuracy collision avoidance. Fear of running into things or being run into keeps a lot of people out of a powered device which often means keeps them out of an active life.

Anyway... I do tend to run on... Im always happy to elp in private with any tech questions or if you're near SE Michigan, I'm happy to have visitors in my shop.

 

[Duffy2008]

That very helpful cobright. Thank you.

 

[mamabunny]

I think I know what you're asking there. If this answer doesn't make sense then ... I guess I'm wrong.
There is an off-the-shelf solution for this, mostly anyway. I won't link it but if you search eBay for "RFID key access code control" you should get what you need for about $9 or $12 with a relay. I've used this, it works great. It comes with keychain tags. It's nearly self contained and ready to work right out the box. Downside is that it only responds to one type RFID tag format which is not the same type as magic and.

If you want to chase the rabbit down this hole you can pick up the 13mhz RFID reader and connect it to a hobbiest micro controller like Arduino and then control a relay connected to ecv battery or existing ignition switch. Or, you can actually use an Android phone as your RFID reader and control that relay from the phones USB port. This option requires a custom app running and the phone must support NFC applications like Android pay.

For my own project, it's closer to the middle option from that list. The things we are trying out are so varied and discrete, no one makes an off the self option that will fit into whatever bigger picture we come up with. As the ideas we put together require more and more computer thinking and things like computer vision and GPS, I think the end result will have an Android tablet core. When we started the goal was antilock braking and computer controlled acceleration to make driving the chair less jerky for her as her fine motor control degrades. Now her chair can remember a location and drive itself there (not that were letting that dog off the leash in public anytime soon) but anything you read about high end drones, I can make a power chair or ecv do that. The one feature we're really trying to get mainstream is high accuracy collision avoidance. Fear of running into things or being run into keeps a lot of people out of a powered device which often means keeps them out of an active life.

Anyway... I do tend to run on... Im always happy to elp in private with any tech questions or if you're near SE Michigan, I'm happy to have visitors in my shop.

LOL you know what you need to do... you need to write an App - so that not only does it track the ECV, but "locks" and "unlocks" the ECV (using TouchID) and displays the battery status in both hours and distance remaining... *That* would be awesome!

 

[cobright]

LOL you know what you need to do... you need to write an App - so that not only does it track the ECV, but "locks" and "unlocks" the ECV (using TouchID) and displays the battery status in both hours and distance remaining... *That* would be awesome!

In a sense I have. Eventually I will have all of the individual features that I would like to bring to bear sorted out and what comes next is getting them all to play together in a sophisticated yet simple control scheme. I mentioned utilizing a cell phone as the main control computer and that's not far off. A cellphone or tablet has so many useful things built into it already, gps, wifi, Bluetooth, even RFID scanner (you can use most newer cellphones to read the unencrypted parts of your magicband), compass, inclinometer, a trio of accelerometers, and even fingerprint scanner. Some can even measure energy usage simply by laying your phone against an appliance cord. And all that is peripheral to a little computer that can handle computing acceleration and braking and even adjust ecv steering in certain cases. So, eventually there will be some real money spent on just such an app.

Your battery life meter is actually a really tricky problem to overcome in its own right. Most battery gauges work by measuring the voltage the battery is supplying power at. A 12 volt ecv battery will measure maybe 13 volts when fully charged and at the point at which the scooter stops moving it might read 9 volts (this is something of a simplification). But the change in voltage as the battery is drained is far from linear. You see this at the end, the cart is moving fine then a little slower then ... bleh, it's done. More troublesome, the rate of battery usage isn't exactly married to either time or distance. The same charge gets you less distance up hill than down and gets you less distance in either case than if it were driving a lighter person around.

Thankfully, with every getting smarter (homes, phone's, etc) there is potential to have much more useful charge indicator. The first few elements of this project concerned getting greater distance between charges. Better battery tech has made most of that work unnecessary but one thing I still use is a smart battery gauges that estimates life in terms of meters distance remaining based in actual work performed by the chair motors and an algorithm that uses gps and topographic map data to make an educated guess on how much further your battery will move you. That is the one part of this project I'm hoping to commercialize, it's patent pending now. If I can accomplish anything useful beyond that it will go out under creative commons.

 

[jpkenyon]

I use a power chair around the house. It's called the Golden Literider. It's not foldable but it comes apart like the ECV's. The whole chair weighs 120 lbs but the heaviest piece is 35 lbs. We looked at the folding types because I thought loading & unloading would be easier on my husband. He said he'd rather deal with one that comes apart than the foldable type. My husband is more concerned about safety for me than what's easiest for him. He feels that the folding chairs will be less stable, partly due to the light weight. He just thinks a 120 lb chair is more stable than a 50 lb chair & doesn't mind taking apart & putting together. I would think anyone capable of lifting a 50 lb folding chair could manage my chair. I'm starting to use the power chair more when we're out & about instead of my ECV. I'm thinking about using it for our WDW trip in March. It's battery doesn't last as long as my ECV battery so I haven't decided. There is a new model called the Literider Envy that has a bigger battery. My husband suggests I trade in the ECV & get the new power chair for trips & use the old one with smaller battery for the house. I'm thinking just get the larger battery for my old chair if it fits or just get a spare small battery for WDW. That way I can put in a fresh battery mid-day instead of being stuck in the room charging. I don't know if the Golden Literider Envy would work for you, it doesn't recline. It's a good chair for my needs & is pretty inexpensive compared to most power chairs...about $1500. It wouldn't work for someone who needs more back or neck support or who spends most of their time in their chair but it's fine for me & is transportable. I think a power chair is easier than an ECV for getting around in restaurants, bathrooms & shops. ECV's are fine for those who are able to park them outside & walk a little. I'm just not sure about getting on & off the busses with the chair. For some reason I don't like going down ramps with the chair. I think the tiller on the ECV makes you feel more secure...probably all in my head. Good luck making a decision...it does get confusing deciding what equipment to get. There's not one type that is best for all situations. Sorry I don't know how to post a link to my chair but you can google it.

Gran Jan , have been looking at the LiteRider Envy myself for Disney and other trips as well. Really like the small footprint, tight turning, and the way it comes apart. Did you ever get one? Did you like it? I'd appreciate any info you're willing to share.

 

[Kaytie]

I was really upset that about that stroller thief. I have a real problem with anyone who steals from kids to begin with - pick on people your own size.

Maybe she thought she was stealing it from adults who were solely using it to cart around a ridiculous amount of stuff?

 

[jpkenyon]

I've always sort of dismissed the idea of someone stealing a powerchair. We've parked a chair worth about what my car cost me for 2 hours outside an attraction without a thought. But then there was that stroller case a little while back and ... never underestimate humanity's capacity for awfulness and all that. Even so, as long as it's not too portable, I would still trust an ECV to be there when I get back.


A key switch can be installed no sweat. Can do it without modifying the chair at all.

How would you install a key switch? Does the dealer do that? Does it invalidate the warranty?

 

[cobright]

How would you install a key switch? Does the dealer do that? Does it invalidate the warranty?

Good question. Usually dealers and manufacturers will claim that making any sort of significant alteration to a power chair will void its warranty. In most states consumer protection laws will require warranty to cover the device unless they can show that your modification contributed to the defect. But it's a legitimate concern, especially if the chair is new (or new-ish).

There's usually at least 2 ways to go at this. The right choice depends on your particular device.

1. If you want to keep the dealer out of this and make no modification to the power chair
   • Find where the wires coming off the batteries plug into the chair (or scooter or whatever).
   • Determine the type of connector used. There are obscure named connector styles like MOLEX, or XLR. Whatever it is (take a picture and include it if you ask someone to do this part for you) you get a short length of cord made up with the connector ends at each end like an extension cord for the battery except this extension cord has a key switch (pic below) wired to interrupt the red (+) wire.
   • Then you tuck all that into a project enclosure (pic below) that you zip-tie to the device somewhere convenient.
   • This is a very simplistic explanation and there may be better ways to wire it up depending on the particular device but at the base level this is as simple as it gets.
   • It's actually a lot less complicated to do than it is to explain.
2. Another option that's a little more invasive but is actually much easier to do
   • Look through the wiring up near the steering control or tiller or whatever. There will be a spot that a bunch of wires come in and out. Find a wire (probably red) with an inline fuse holder (pic below).
   • Cut that wire and connect the two cut ends to the key switch. Splice in some extra wire if you want the key switch somewhere else.
   • Enclose the switch in the project box and attach the project box to the chair somewhere convenient.

• A key switch looks like this: https://www.amazon.com/Key-Switch-w...6378057&sr=8-2&keywords=electrical+key+switch
• A project enclosure might look like this: https://www.amazon.com/SamIdea-Wate...78139&sr=1-11&keywords=electrical+project+box
• An inline fuse holder usually looks like: https://www.amazon.com/DIGITEN-5x20...1506378361&sr=8-4&keywords=inline+fuse+holder

Because there aren't any industry standards for wiring harnesses and because I don't think most people leave their chair unattended in busy places the likelihood of anyone mass producing a drop-in key-switch mod is remote. But any electronics repair shop should be able to build one for you.