Riviera Pricing Released

[TexasChick123]

But they won’t be looking to book OKW, SSR, AKV etc. They’ll want monorail or IG. That’s where it’s not fair.

A new resale BCV owner can’t trade into DRR, but DRR direct owners can trade into their resort. It’s ridiculous.

It's just another way they are separating Direct from Resale. I don't like it either, but they are clearly doing anything and everything they can to boost direct sales.

Regarding the resale value of Riviera, I also think the spread between direct and resale prices will be a lot less than people are saying/hoping. Really any resort should be 1/50th cheaper every single year, but that doesn't happen. We are working with inefficient markets here. This particular market is driven by supply and demand and not what you are actually getting. Is BCV really worth $225pp today when it has less than 25 years on it compared to its opening price?!? My answer is no, but in an open market, it is all about what someone is willing to pay. How many of you would do a "small Rivera add-on" via resale for $100pp, $150pp, etc. if the resort turns out to be amazing to stay in a regular studio or a tower studio?

Some people LOVE certain resorts that I do not like at all and vice versa. I think if you are looking for a more "high end" resort like VGF on the Epcot side, then this is it for the number of years left. BCV is nice, but the shared pool with yacht club makes it so busy. Also, the views at BCV are nonexistent. Some people care about that and others don't.

I'm going around and around about it, but these are just some of the thoughts I've had.

 

[Madame]

Even under that hypothetical, it's still a much smaller pool than those, and many monorail owners would be interested in switching to Riviera because of the Epcot/HS access (BCV/BWV being difficult alread). Imagine all the OKW, SSW, AKV that want to trade into Riviera to be on the Gondola, so an equal burden will be on each of the two sets (Riviera vs L14).

I don’t think that excluded resalers will care about equal burden. They will care that it’s unfair.

 

[skippytx]

I would NOT want these people to be in charge of my finances.

The people paying these prices probably have a much different financial situations than I do. If there is one thing I've learned about people from vacationing at WDW is there are people out there with a lot of money, and they'll gladly spend it with the mouse.

 

[Madame]

It's just another way they are separating Direct from Resale. I don't like it either, but they are clearly doing anything and everything they can to boost direct sales.

Regarding the resale value of Riviera, I also think the spread between direct and resale prices will be a lot less than people are saying/hoping. Really any resort should be 1/50th cheaper every single year, but that doesn't happen. We are working with inefficient markets here. This particular market is driven by supply and demand and not what you are actually getting. Is BCV really worth $225pp today when it has less than 25 years on it compared to its opening price?!? My answer is no, but in an open market, it is all about what someone is willing to pay. How many of you would do a "small Rivera add-on" via resale for $100pp, $150pp, etc. if the resort turns out to be amazing to stay in a regular studio or a tower studio?

Some people LOVE certain resorts that I do not like at all and vice versa. I think if you are looking for a more "high end" resort like VGF on the Epcot side, then this is it for the number of years left. BCV is nice, but the shared pool with yacht club makes it so busy. Also, the views at BCV are nonexistent. Some people care about that and others don't.

I'm going around and around about it, but these are just some of the thoughts I've had.

I hear you, but for « purchasing power » per point, this can’t beat BWV or BCV. DVCers are frugal.

I honestly think the resale will be lower than SSR & OKW. Resalers are savvy. They research and are less impulsive & more informed. We’ll see, I guess.

 

[Madame]

The people paying these prices probably have a much different financial situations than I do. If there is one thing I've learned about people from vacationing at WDW is there are people out there with a lot of money, and they'll gladly spend it with the mouse.

I really think the debt situation is dire. Worse than 2008.... Most people who actually *have* a lot of money, got it by being smart about spending it.

 

[ELMC]

I love buying resale, but I would never touch Riviera unless it had a huge discount in resale pricing. And if prices got that low, DVC would probably just ROFR the contracts and resell them as direct.

My biggest concern is that you could get frozen out of using your points for the room size you are looking for. I just don't trust DVC to not mess around with the booking windows for resale buyers at Riviera. Last year I booked a short notice trip (4 months out) for Feb, the only thing available was SSR and I was glad to get it. If I was a resale Riviera owner, I wouldn't have been able to use my points there. Resale owners at the Riviera had better ALWAYS book very early or they stand a good chance of getting shut out of a room.

So I'm definitely in the camp that thinks that eventually Riviera resale is going to be worth less than SSR resale. Plus those dues combined with the high point chart really stink.

Agreed on all points. I might suggest that Riviera is better off as a portion of one's DVC resale portfolio and not their only resort for the reasons you mentioned above.

 

[crvetter]

I don’t think that excluded resalers will care about equal burden. They will care that it’s unfair.

I think, this is a bit different then the point I was responding too, initially it was presented as an imbalance being unfair, which was the point I was replying to your post and prior poster about.

However with this new point you bring up, I would argue resale purchasers post 1/19/19 may find it unfair but that might be unjustified because they bought into a system specifically being told they couldn't trade into DRR (and all its implications). Perhaps (I only mildly subscribe to this) an owner who bought prior to the resale restrictions can be upset because they have a contract that when they sell will now have a restriction making it less appealing to a buyer that wanted to stay at DRR occasionally. The reason I said mildly subscribe to that is because everyone, in that group who bought prior to the restrictions being announced, who has unrestricted access to DRR bought before DRR was even declared as a DVC resort and had no guaranteed access to DRR when they purchased their contract (only a strong assumption, which per history was valid to assume). The dirty part on DVC is they heavily suggested (they kept using and still use the word "proposed" when referencing DRR as a DVC) that DRR was a DVC resort which lead people to assume the status quo would continue to happen.

 

[Madame]

I think, this is a bit different then the point I was responding too, initially it was presented as an imbalance being unfair, which was the point I was replying to your post and prior poster about.

However with this new point you bring up, I would argue resale purchasers post 1/19/19 may find it unfair but that might be unjustified because they bought into a system specifically being told they couldn't trade into DRR (and all its implications). Perhaps (I only mildly subscribe to this) an owner who bought prior to the resale restrictions can be upset because they have a contract that when they sell will now have a restriction making it less appealing to a buyer that wanted to stay at DRR occasionally. The reason I said mildly subscribe to that is because everyone, in that group who bought prior to the restrictions being announced, who has unrestricted access to DRR bought before DRR was even declared as a DVC resort and had no guaranteed access to DRR when they purchased their contract (only a strong assumption, which per history was valid to assume). The dirty part on DVC is they heavily suggested (they kept using and still use the word "proposed" when referencing DRR as a DVC) that DRR was a DVC resort which lead people to assume the status quo would continue to happen.

Yes, but I am still uncertain *how* this is being done. Is DRR in the club or not? If not, then why has DVD been allowed to change what being in the club means?

 

[crvetter]

Yes, but I am still uncertain *how* this is being done. Is DRR in the club or not? If not, then why has DVD been allowed to change what being in the club means?

There is a good discussion on how this was done in the Mult-Site POS change thread, both how and was it legal. Short answer is they are in the club and your club membership benefits are defined it the BVTC Disclosure Document and your DVC's Resort Agreement. Riviera just joined the club through its Resort Agreement, with the stipulation dictated it's resale buyers can't trade out and resale buyers (after 1/19/19) at other resorts can trade in, which is enforced in the BVTC Disclosure Document.

Legal or not, I'm still under the view that DVC will likely regret this change eventually and it was likely against the original crafters/creators of DVC.

 

[Madame]

There is a good discussion on how this was done in the Mult-Site POS change thread, both how and was it legal. Short answer is they are in the club and your club membership benefits are defined it the BVTC Disclosure Document and your DVC's Resort Agreement. Riviera just joined the club through its Resort Agreement, with the stipulation dictated it's resale buyers can't trade out and resale buyers (after 1/19/19) at other resorts can trade in, which is enforced in the BVTC Disclosure Document.

Legal or not, I'm still under the view that DVC will likely regret this change eventually and it was likely against the original crafters/creators of DVC.

I agree. I have been following that thread & while I understand, I cannot comprehend how they are doing this legally. I guess we’ll all have to see what they have in mind...

 

[iheartglaciers]

So is the lazy river not happening? The splash area (assuming that's what it is) called S'il Vous Play is pretty funny!

 

[JETSDAD]

So is the lazy river not happening? The splash area (assuming that's what it is) called S'il Vous Play is pretty funny!

I don't recall there ever being discussion of a lazy river here....that's over at Reflections (just from looking at the leaked pic).

 

[TexasChick123]

So is the lazy river not happening? The splash area (assuming that's what it is) called S'il Vous Play is pretty funny!

I don't recall there ever being discussion of a lazy river here....that's over at Reflections (just from looking at the leaked pic).

Correct. That lazy river is over at Reflections.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I don't see the market falling out of the bottom for Riviera. It takes a couple years for resale contracts to start showing up. There's been a few Copper Creek, but not many. Poly resale is out there, but it took a while for it to get going. They'll be still selling Riv in a year, so they'll just ROFR any resale contracts and sell them off as new points again.

Just an FYI that historically resales have started showing up for resorts in the 4-6 month range. And historicallly DVC doesn't ROFR them while they are in active sales. Maybe the odd one here or there but it's typically been the most guaranteed to pass ROFR - resorts in current sales.

Is BCV really worth $225pp today when it has less than 25 years on it compared to its opening price?!? My answer is no, but in an open market,

DVC setting $225 prices for BCV is actually not an open market. The open market says BCV is in the $129-$140 range. Still a bit crazy for a 2042 resort but that's what it is based on demand. If Riviera truly is considered an Epcot resort (which I don't consider it to be actually) then it ought to make BCV less appealing and thus prices will fall there. We'll see what happens but I think the value of walking to Epcot is still going to be appealing.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I think, this is a bit different then the point I was responding too, initially it was presented as an imbalance being unfair, which was the point I was replying to your post and prior poster about.

However with this new point you bring up, I would argue resale purchasers post 1/19/19 may find it unfair but that might be unjustified because they bought into a system specifically being told they couldn't trade into DRR (and all its implications). Perhaps (I only mildly subscribe to this) an owner who bought prior to the resale restrictions can be upset because they have a contract that when they sell will now have a restriction making it less appealing to a buyer that wanted to stay at DRR occasionally. The reason I said mildly subscribe to that is because everyone, in that group who bought prior to the restrictions being announced, who has unrestricted access to DRR bought before DRR was even declared as a DVC resort and had no guaranteed access to DRR when they purchased their contract (only a strong assumption, which per history was valid to assume). The dirty part on DVC is they heavily suggested (they kept using and still use the word "proposed" when referencing DRR as a DVC) that DRR was a DVC resort which lead people to assume the status quo would continue to happen.

I will not worry about the resale buyer as most ought to have access to be informed both of availability and what the restrictions are. The ones that may not be so lucky? The pixie dust drenched buyers who then discover they want or need to sell but that they own a product that is not like it used to be.

 

[TexasChick123]

DVC setting $225 prices for BCV is actually not an open market. The open market says BCV is in the $129-$140 range. Still a bit crazy for a 2042 resort but that's what it is based on demand. If Riviera truly is considered an Epcot resort (which I don't consider it to be actually) then it ought to make BCV less appealing and thus prices will fall there. We'll see what happens but I think the value of walking to Epcot is still going to be appealing.

Sorry, I was talking about resale with the "open market" and then went back to talking about direct pricing. I agree that the $225 price point for BCV isn't set by the open market. However, there is a long wait list for BCV at $225pp. I don't get it, but I don't need to if they can charge it and get it.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Sorry, I was talking about resale with the "open market" and then went back to talking about direct pricing. I agree that the $225 price point for BCV isn't set by the open market. However, there is a long wait list for BCV at $225pp. I don't get it, but I don't need to if they can charge it and get it.

I always hope that the waitlist is made up of requests for 25 points - maybe 50 points tops.

 

[DougEMG]

Yes, but I am still uncertain *how* this is being done. Is DRR in the club or not? If not, then why has DVD been allowed to change what being in the club means?

Because they have decided that "the club" means whatever they say it means and that they can change there minds about what it means whenever they feel like it. Hence why my trust in them is at an all time low.

 

[DougEMG]

I agree. I have been following that thread & while I understand, I cannot comprehend how they are doing this legally. I guess we’ll all have to see what they have in mind...

There is what is legal and then having enough money to enforce what is legal. Without enforcement, what is legal means nothing.

 

[nkosiek]

Please explain to me how a preferred view at Riviera, which is a view of the lake or gondola, is worth the same points per night as a Bay Lake Tower theme park view. Points per night are too high in my opinion for Riviera and should be instead on par with BLT standard view for Riviera standard and BLT lake view for Riviera preferred view.

These point charts look a lot like the rescinded BLT charts for Standard and Lake. I'm convinced they are gonna try again next year on the point charts.