Rumor: Disney Vacation Club Raising Sold-Out Resort Prices

[Sandisw]

I guess I wasn't really including RIV in the discussion either since the product is so different from the others. The argument could also be made that you could have sold your contract and bought another of the longer term contracts on resale. Even if you bought the Riv resale you would have saved even more money or gotten more points.

I consider Riv a weird situation that I cannot figure out either. People on here bash it but say buy where you want to stay. So why would they care about the restrictions in buying resale? I don't see there being this massive availability problem since there won't be a ton of contracts ever that are resale. The other side of that is if you buy Riv direct, you should plan to stay there almost exclusively to get value out of your direct purchase (you paid more to go direct and to get Riv). On the same level why not go Riv resale if you already own; looks like the savings resale are a similarly about $50-$80 pp and there are still 50 years left on those contracts.

Yes, but resale would not have given my children benefits, which the savings in AP alone, for however long it lasts, is a savings.

My cost for RIV direct was $120 with my BWV sale, those 175 points have no restrictions. Any new points I would have bought resale would have been limited to L14 and to me, that made them much less valuable.

Given that I own what I do, I have all my 825 points that are eligible for all resorts. It was worth it to go direct.

 

[Sandisw]

I also cannot reconcile the advice on this board of buy where you want to stay, but Riviera is the worst because it follows this theory. Oh well.

Regarding buying Riviera resale vs direct, I can tell you when we did it. Typically, the initial offer to current owners is better than resale a few years down the road. I paid $170pp when you took into account my incentives. If the direct prices and hotel prices keep rising, then I think I will have paid a decent price a few years from now, plus I get all the perks of direct. This is the first contract that may last longer than I do. I want to give my kids the option to have a full benefits contract because who knows what the restrictions will be in the future. Should they decide they don’t want it, they can always sell it. Even if the resale value is $1 at that point, it’s not like they lost anything. Who’s to say we wouldn’t have spent that money on something else, like a new car today of which they’d never see the financial profits? My kids are young, but they love Disney. We try to go enough to continue that love and not burn them, or ourselves, out. All any of us can do is what we think is best since no one can accurately predict the future because life is unpredictable.

Exactly! I looked at it the same way! Any loss of resale value wont Impact my kids because they didn’t pay the upfront costs, I did! I get joy out of Disney, plan to go for as long as my health allows.

And the more I stay, the more I realize I get a different feel out of all the resorts, I don’t think I’d want to go to the same one every month. In the next year, I have booked BLT, BWV, Poly, CCV, BLT, SSR, BWV, VGF, and RIV.

So, having lots of flexibility was key to my decision. I didn’t want restricted points and did what I did give my children direct benefits.

 

[RivShore]

I guess I wasn't really including RIV in the discussion either since the product is so different from the others. The argument could also be made that you could have sold your contract and bought another of the longer term contracts on resale. Even if you bought the Riv resale you would have saved even more money or gotten more points.

I consider Riv a weird situation that I cannot figure out either. People on here bash it but say buy where you want to stay. So why would they care about the restrictions in buying resale? I don't see there being this massive availability problem since there won't be a ton of contracts ever that are resale. The other side of that is if you buy Riv direct, you should plan to stay there almost exclusively to get value out of your direct purchase (you paid more to go direct and to get Riv). On the same level why not go Riv resale if you already own; looks like the savings resale are a similarly about $50-$80 pp and there are still 50 years left on those contracts.

We did that analysis before deciding on RIV direct and the difference was just not that great. Like Sandi, we have our adult kids on the deed and, between us all, we expect to get the full 50 years of use out of it. For resale, the only one close to 50 years that we would have considered is CC and when we looked, the average price per point was around $155, while RIV was $173 with incentives (would have been $169 with the new incentives ). So for $18 a point, we got 2 more years of use, ability to book at all future resorts, and the discounts. The AP discounts alone will make up that difference quickly and we love trying new places so the lack of the L14 restriction was big for us.

 

[Sandisw]

We did that analysis before deciding on RIV direct and the difference was just not that great. Like Sandi, we have our adult kids on the deed and, between us all, we expect to get the full 50 years of use out of it. For resale, the only one close to 50 years that we would have considered is CC and when we looked, the average price per point was around $155, while RIV was $173 with incentives (would have been $169 with the new incentives ). So for $18 a point, we got 2 more years of use, ability to book at all future resorts, and the discounts. The AP discounts alone will make up that difference quickly and we love trying new places so the lack of the L14 restriction was big for us.

Yup! My price per point is $165. So, even if I hadn’t had a profit from the sale of BWV that reduced my net cost, the only other resorts I would have considered were a Poly and CCV..so between $10 and $20 per point.

Certainly worth it with those numbers to go direct in my case. Of course, if the kids had said they absolutely hated RIV, we would have probably reduced number of points to buy CCV direct instead,

 

[ray3127]

I guess it depends on the contract but within any 30 day period on the resale market there is pretty decent supply. Also I have heard about lots of wait lists direct so I didn't anticipate there would be a "speed" argument. I am sorry but in general savings are not "small". Perhaps on certain contracts they are not massive, but the stripped or loaded contracts have that priced in.

I have no problem with people buying direct, your reasons just don't make a lot of sense to me still. If they have points available to buy direct I agree it may be faster, I just wouldn't pay 250 for vgf when I can get it for 150-160 in resale to save myself 45 days. On 100 points that is $8 grand. On the contract I just purchased at Akv it was about $8000 plus I got an extra 300 points up front vs buying direct. Already being an owner direct, not sure why I'd throw that money away.

If you're looking for a specific resort, size, and use year, this simply isn't always the case. Two recent personal examples below.

We wanted to add on about 125 BLT October points. Waited a couple months and didn't come across anything worthwhile. Finally a 100-point contract hit the market. Luckily it was loaded, so we jumped on it (thanks DVC Store text alerts). However, we still wanted another 25 points. So we bought those direct. Who knows if/when the 125-point contract would've come along, and if it would be stripped/loaded.

We also wanted to add on 40-50 at Beach Club (December). I've actually seen a couple come up since I've been looking, but they've been priced close to $200 per point. At that price, I'll just deal with Disney and be done with it.

We already have direct benefits, but I think our examples prove there are perfectly rational reasons for buying direct. Small contracts, "rounding up" to get the *right* number of points, etc.

 

[AvidDisReader]

Time is a great equalizer. My first direct contract was at BLT, PP was $120, but when I went back to look at the original contract from 2010, I forgot about the builder incentive. My actual PP was $108. So, those who think that RIV is too high, just wait a few years and more than likely when you look back you will say to your self what a great deal (plus no Cabins/Bungalows). By the way, we have bought annual passes since 2010 and have saved over $2000 in tickets in that time-so the savings do add up.

 

[mentos]

I'm always amused at the VGC direct price. I've been on the waitlist for 2 years now and they never have points. (I want a 25 point contract, which is why I'm willing to go direct). I've been on the waitlist for any UY and 25 points. My guide calls me 1-2 a quarter to tell me I'm still on the list (and tries to get me to buy something else, which sometimes I do, haha). But they don't ROFR it (ever) and they don't sell contracts but maybe 1 every few months. Why have a direct price at all?

Hah I know, I laughed when I saw the VGC price. It’s already ~$200/pt resale, I suppose theoretically this increase the chance of a take at ROFR as it increases DVC’s margins but I’m highly doubtful.

I’m not even on the list, I don’t want any phone calls!

 

[kboo]

The other side of that is if you buy Riv direct, you should plan to stay there almost exclusively to get value out of your direct purchase (you paid more to go direct and to get Riv). On the same level why not go Riv resale if you already own; looks like the savings resale are a similarly about $50-$80 pp and there are still 50 years left on those contracts.

Not necessarily - the higher price one pays for the direct contract (which, btw, is comparable to resale prices for VGF and VGC, and BCV given the end date) is also for the flexibility of having unrestricted points.

As for "why not go RIV resale if you already own other points" - I'd suggest that RIV resale is really only a good choice if you already own, but that doesn't mean that every owner would do better with RIV resale over direct. But here's a thought - at best, the savings might be $50pp, and that's assuming the contract isn't stripped, is in the UY you want, and is the right size. I think we've all seen the $100pp resale and have formed our own views that that's probably not going to be typical for this time period. I was certainly in the camp that a resale contract with the right # of points and UY might be appealing (for me, the price in my head was $120), but I am not seeing very many resale contracts come up that are the size and UY that I want (none, in fact, so far), and no one seems willing to sell at $120. So I was looking at a timeline of 5 years, plus ROFR. factor all that in, and it didn't seem all that appealing after all.

Typically, the initial offer to current owners is better than resale a few years down the road. I paid $170pp when you took into account my incentives. If the direct prices and hotel prices keep rising, then I think I will have paid a decent price a few years from now, plus I get all the perks of direct. This is the first contract that may last longer than I do. I want to give my kids the option to have a full benefits contract because who knows what the restrictions will be in the future. Should they decide they don’t want it, they can always sell it. Even if the resale value is $1 at that point, it’s not like they lost anything. Who’s to say we wouldn’t have spent that money on something else, like a new car today of which they’d never see the financial profits? My kids are young, but they love Disney. We try to go enough to continue that love and not burn them, or ourselves, out. All any of us can do is what we think is best since no one can accurately predict the future because life is unpredictable.

^^^ this. We were already blue card holders with unrestricted points. We ended up paying about $165 factoring in all the incentives. We were considering adding on at BLT, where we already own, but ROFR was very bloody for BLT at that time and contracts were going for $145 and up. So the price differential for unrestricted points at RIV (and we'd always wanted a home resort w easier access to EP and HS) was not that great. If we bought RIV direct, we could use those points for BLT lake view pretty easily at 7mo, but if we'd added on at BLT, we wouldn't be able to use those points for RIV, plus we'd be in the 7mo muddle for any rooms in the EP/HS area. And finally - we split our points into 2 smaller contracts - 1 for each kid if they want, but also easier to sell if necessary (though mainly it was so each kid could have their own contract, IF they wanted).

 

[Sandisw]

Not necessarily - the higher price one pays for the direct contract (which, btw, is comparable to resale prices for VGF and VGC, and BCV given the end date) is also for the flexibility of having unrestricted points.

As for "why not go RIV resale if you already own other points" - I'd suggest that RIV resale is really only a good choice if you already own, but that doesn't mean that every owner would do better with RIV resale over direct. But here's a thought - at best, the savings might be $50pp, and that's assuming the contract isn't stripped, is in the UY you want, and is the right size. I think we've all seen the $100pp resale and have formed our own views that that's probably not going to be typical for this time period. I was certainly in the camp that a resale contract with the right # of points and UY might be appealing (for me, the price in my head was $120), but I am not seeing very many resale contracts come up that are the size and UY that I want (none, in fact, so far), and no one seems willing to sell at $120. So I was looking at a timeline of 5 years, plus ROFR. factor all that in, and it didn't seem all that appealing after all.




^^^ this. We were already blue card holders with unrestricted points. We ended up paying about $165 factoring in all the incentives. We were considering adding on at BLT, where we already own, but ROFR was very bloody for BLT at that time and contracts were going for $145 and up. So the price differential for unrestricted points at RIV (and we'd always wanted a home resort w easier access to EP and HS) was not that great. If we bought RIV direct, we could use those points for BLT lake view pretty easily at 7mo, but if we'd added on at BLT, we wouldn't be able to use those points for RIV, plus we'd be in the 7mo muddle for any rooms in the EP/HS area. And finally - we split our points into 2 smaller contracts - 1 for each kid if they want, but also easier to sell if necessary (though mainly it was so each kid could have their own contract, IF they wanted).

Just like you, I believe that there is value in having completely non restricted points vs. ones with them..whether it’s L14 restrictions or RIV.

My direct purchase kept all my points in the non restricted zones. Given my owning of 825, I have the flexibility to be able to book lots of options at all the resorts.

 

[Soap_1984]

My original point was just that i didn't necessarily understand buying direct Riv if you already had a membership. I guess if you own a 2042 you are getting whatever direct benefits that still exist in 22 years for your kids; the extra years are a wash still as you could buy resale and give up only a couple years; when your kids are 60 I am not sure they will care about 3-4 extra years.

My point on benefit of staying at other resorts is just that most people buying the more expensive resorts (vgf, bcv) are buying there to stay there; I am assuming Riv is the same. If you're going to put any real value on staying other places then why buy Riv and not saratoga? Again if you already have a contract that you can use at Riv, the only rationale is you love Riv and want to stay almost exclusively there with those points and book at 11 months. The corollary then is that you aren't giving up much by going resale RIV if you already own dvc and have points that can be used at Riv. In my situation I have 200 points I can use at RIV, and 160 I cannot. if I went to Riv and loved it I would need more points if I wanted to stay there every year; there is no benefit buying direct other than staying at other resorts with those points, and is that worth the extra 50-80 pp cost? To me it would not be; if I want points to sleep around I'd buy the cheapest points/mf combo. I could buy Riv resale when there is supply and use the difference to buy okw, and get the best of both worlds. If I want 200 Riv points i spend $20k on those resale and then buy 100 at okw for $10k. If I bought direct, assuming modest incentive I'm in for $6k more and have fewer points (but the same number of points to use at Riv at 11 months).

Perhaps to someone who only owned a 2042 it might be worth it to swap out, but that is also a transaction it seems disney wants to stop with the restrictions since I am assuming that person got fair value and sold resale, which disney does not want. Again, it may make sense now but disney does not want that to happen; they are trying to take that away from you (and your kids) in the future. This is why the restrictions matter even if you don't think they do. They want everything on their terms (I.e. Disney will buy back your okw points at a fraction of what they are actually worth and sell you RIV). Personally I don't want to support that and no resort is nice enough to make me do that; Riv looks nice but I can stay there on my original ssr points so why reinforce disneys notion that they can greedily take every nickel from everyone and do whatever they want to owners? All I can do is not buy and tell them why, and most likely they don't care because other people will buy, which is their prerogative.

 

[Sandisw]

My original point was just that i didn't necessarily understand buying direct Riv if you already had a membership. I guess if you own a 2042 you are getting whatever direct benefits that still exist in 22 years for your kids; the extra years are a wash still as you could buy resale and give up only a couple years; when your kids are 60 I am not sure they will care about 3-4 extra years.

My point on benefit of staying at other resorts is just that most people buying the more expensive resorts (vgf, bcv) are buying there to stay there; I am assuming Riv is the same. If you're going to put any real value on staying other places then why buy Riv and not saratoga? Again if you already have a contract that you can use at Riv, the only rationale is you love Riv and want to stay almost exclusively there with those points and book at 11 months. The corollary then is that you aren't giving up much by going resale RIV if you already own dvc and have points that can be used at Riv. In my situation I have 200 points I can use at RIV, and 160 I cannot. if I went to Riv and loved it I would need more points if I wanted to stay there every year; there is no benefit buying direct other than staying at other resorts with those points, and is that worth the extra 50-80 pp cost? To me it would not be; if I want points to sleep around I'd buy the cheapest points/mf combo. I could buy Riv resale when there is supply and use the difference to buy okw, and get the best of both worlds. If I want 200 Riv points i spend $20k on those resale and then buy 100 at okw for $10k. If I bought direct, assuming modest incentive I'm in for $6k more and have fewer points (but the same number of points to use at Riv at 11 months).

Perhaps to someone who only owned a 2042 it might be worth it to swap out, but that is also a transaction it seems disney wants to stop with the restrictions since I am assuming that person got fair value and sold resale, which disney does not want. Again, it may make sense now but disney does not want that to happen; they are trying to take that away from you (and your kids) in the future. This is why the restrictions matter even if you don't think they do. They want everything on their terms (I.e. Disney will buy back your okw points at a fraction of what they are actually worth and sell you RIV). Personally I don't want to support that and no resort is nice enough to make me do that; Riv looks nice but I can stay there on my original ssr points so why reinforce disneys notion that they can greedily take every nickel from everyone and do whatever they want to owners? All I can do is not buy and tell them why, and most likely they don't care because other people will buy, which is their prerogative.
[/QUOTE

All your points just reinforce that there is no one size fits all solution when it comes to DVC and what you feel is worth!

For you, RIV is not a resort that you feel is worth owning and if you can stay there on your other points if you choose.

But, like I have shared, my cost for RIV after selling BWV was $120. Nothing I could get on the resale market for that price that I would want and it made zero sense to sell and rebuy resale.

it really was a win win for all of us. Will I only use points at RIV? No. But I will be able to have first shot at SV or tower studios and that was worth owning there

Obviously, what I did was unique and not everyone would spend the extra we did, but in the end, what we got and the benefits for my children and their families made adding on direct the best financial option given what we got out of it!

 

[anomamatt]

Riv looks nice but I can stay there on my original ssr points so why reinforce disneys notion that they can greedily take every nickel from everyone and do whatever they want to owners?

If you believe others on this site, booking will be impossible for Riviera, even at 11 months - due to the resale restrictions. I think these issues are way, way overblown, but the point remains that some people think it'll be impossible to book there while others like you say buy SSR points too book RVA because SSR is so much cheaper.

Like every single other resort, there will be an advantage to booking at 11 months for some room types and some seasons. Guaranteed.

For me, buying Riviera direct was done for two reasons (despite my owning close to 800 points):

1. Guaranteed week.

2. Aside from SSR and OKW, my general experience is that home resort priority matters. I rarely find what I want at 7 months. That's just my experience. And we do travel more often in the Fall/Winter than Summer.

 

[sethschroeder]

the average price per point was around $155, while RIV was $173 with incentives

Sorry I was staying quiet until i saw this. You love RIV obviously based on your name which is fine. I can see both the pro and the con.

That being said I could easily get CC for $145/pp + closing (some with extra points banked which could offset the closing). I would also point out the true cost of staying at RIV. As someone did in another thread they tried to downplay the staggering point cost for RIV compared to many other resorts including CC in many categories. A good example is a week around July 4th right now is 127/Points for a CC Studio vs 160 Std or 190 Prf Studio at RIV. That is a 20% and 33% increase in points requirements on top of the 11% higher maintenance fees of Riviera.

So for a studio when you book at 11 months (which most people are saying is becoming more of a requirement) you could be spending way more at Riviera.

Now there are other times like Adventure season where points are more closely aligned for the CC vs RIV Standard View. How likely is the Standard view to be available though without walking?

There is no "right" answer to all of this but Price/Point tells a tiny part of the story especially on a 50 year contract when a majority of the cost comes from how many points it takes to rent something and how much are your yearly fees.

Final note the issue of in 40 years only CC being available to rent at for resale means one of 3 things. 1) You stay there. 2) You sell for a much further reduced resale price (lock-in at CC vs lock-in at RIV) 3) You rent out your points for CC to people wanting to stay there and then get transfer points from others to stay at the resort of your choice

 

[kboo]

My point on benefit of staying at other resorts is just that most people buying the more expensive resorts (vgf, bcv) are buying there to stay there; I am assuming Riv is the same. If you're going to put any real value on staying other places then why buy Riv and not saratoga? Again if you already have a contract that you can use at Riv, the only rationale is you love Riv and want to stay almost exclusively there with those points and book at 11 months.

The value is in having the option of staying at other places, and of not having to fight for stays in the EP/HS area at 7 months. Yesterday, 1 hour after the 7 mo window opened, all of the 2br and studios were gone, except for preferred studios. Checking now for at 7mo, availability is as limited at RIV as it is at BCV and BWV (if you want a 1br, you're in good shape). (Granted, not all points have been declared, but again,m that's not a data point we have control over or knowledge of) So if you want to be in the EP/HS area with any regularity, you should really be considering BCV, BWV or RIV as a home resort. But there are basically no RIV resales on the market, or on the market at a discount that makes it worth considering right now. And you have the risk that in the next 2-4 years, with all the improvements and attractions coming to HS and EP, that prices are not going to go down appreciably, and the 7 mo squeeze may get worse. Or you can pay a little more now and not have to worry about it, for the possibility of saving some money a few years down the road. Right now I have a split stay booked next summer VGF/RIV. Points wise, it's a wash whether we did VGF first or RIV, first, but we wanted to have a better shot at F&W. We are also considering whether to (try to) move part of our stay to AKV to be close to AK, or possibly BCV so we can use SAB in the summer. If we had restricted RIV points, we wouldn't have a choice of which part to switch at 7mo, and I think we'd be really unlikely to want to do a split BCV/RIV.

quoting @Sandisw :

For you, RIV is not a resort that you feel is worth owning and if you can stay there on your other points if you choose.

But, like I have shared, my cost for RIV after selling BWV was $120. Nothing I could get on the resale market for that price that I would want and it made zero sense to sell and rebuy resale.

it really was a win win for all of us. Will I only use points at RIV? No. But I will be able to have first shot at SV or tower studios and that was worth owning there
(close quote)

Just like staying at BLT standard is pretty much limited to owners there, I think studios, 2br and standard room categories are going to be very hard at 7 mo. I have yet to use my BLT or VGF points elsewhere, but we will, maybe, in 2020 or 2021. But I like having the option, and I like having the ability to book at 11 months at both MK and EP/HS areas. Chances are, if we were to try to switch at 7 months to BWV or BCV, we'd do that with RIV points since those are the most "comparable" in terms of location. Similarly, if we were to try to stay at CCV BRV or Poly, we'd probably book at 11 mo with BLT or VGF (I know) points, depending on time of year and how many points we had available.

... That being said I could easily get CC for $145/pp + closing (some with extra points banked which could offset the closing). I would also point out the true cost of staying at RIV. As someone did in another thread they tried to downplay the staggering point cost for RIV compared to many other resorts including CC in many categories. A good example is a week around July 4th right now is 127/Points for a CC Studio vs 160 Std or 190 Prf Studio at RIV. That is a 20% and 33% increase in points requirements on top of the 11% higher maintenance fees of Riviera.

People often compare RIV point costs to CCV but I don't think that's really a fair comparison. I think CCV point costs were artificially lowered to make them more appealing and to line them up with BRV. Otherwise, people would go for resale BRV even more, because of the big difference in costs per point for the same location. Also - CCV villas are quite a bit smaller - studios and 1br sleep 4, right? and 2br sleep 8, not counting cribs. Plus they have stupid cabins!! Poly and VGF point costs for standard line up a lot closer to BLT LV, and here are occupancies:

Studio:
5 (vgf) 5 (poly) 4 (blt) 5 (riv)

1br:
5 (vgf) 5 (blt, 2 ba) 5 (riv)

2br
9-10 (Vgf, ded - LO), 9 (blt, 3ba), 9-10 (riv)

In terms of size, occupancy, amenities and finishes, RIV is more comparable to VGF and Poly (studios cost roughly the same #points as VGF), and BLT's larger villas. So maybe look at the point costs there and compare.

 

[motherof5]

Any word on when prices increase?

 

[Sandisw]

Any word on when prices increase?

Prices on direct points for most resorts happened last week. RiV is still the same and as of right now, no plans of the price increases any time soon. New incentives came out that reduced the price there starting with 150 points.

 

[motherof5]

Prices on direct points for most resorts happened last week. RiV is still the same and as of right now, no plans of the price increases any time soon. New incentives came out that reduced the price there starting with 150 points.

Thank you

 

[sethschroeder]

People often compare RIV point costs to CCV but I don't think that's really a fair comparison.

The only reason I stated CCV was because of the previous poster that I responded to called that one out specifically. Basically anything except GFV + POLY will come out with RIV being more when looking at points charts.

If you want to stay at RIV that is fine you for sure buy direct and get the access to stay anywhere as an added benefit. Otherwise if you are doing the math and don't care as much about staying at RIV you need to account for the rooms you can possibly book.

Like I said I don't think there is a "right" answer. Simply trying to point out price/point is not the only thing that measures the comparison.

 

[RivShore]

Sorry I was staying quiet until i saw this. You love RIV obviously based on your name which is fine. I can see both the pro and the con.

That being said I could easily get CC for $145/pp + closing (some with extra points banked which could offset the closing). I would also point out the true cost of staying at RIV. As someone did in another thread they tried to downplay the staggering point cost for RIV compared to many other resorts including CC in many categories. A good example is a week around July 4th right now is 127/Points for a CC Studio vs 160 Std or 190 Prf Studio at RIV. That is a 20% and 33% increase in points requirements on top of the 11% higher maintenance fees of Riviera.

So for a studio when you book at 11 months (which most people are saying is becoming more of a requirement) you could be spending way more at Riviera.

Now there are other times like Adventure season where points are more closely aligned for the CC vs RIV Standard View. How likely is the Standard view to be available though without walking?

There is no "right" answer to all of this but Price/Point tells a tiny part of the story especially on a 50 year contract when a majority of the cost comes from how many points it takes to rent something and how much are your yearly fees.

Final note the issue of in 40 years only CC being available to rent at for resale means one of 3 things. 1) You stay there. 2) You sell for a much further reduced resale price (lock-in at CC vs lock-in at RIV) 3) You rent out your points for CC to people wanting to stay there and then get transfer points from others to stay at the resort of your choice

Just went back to our analysis to see if I was correct on the $155 I mentioned above. We did this analysis based on a couple of the larger resale sites back in early September. We only looked at CC contracts that we could easily group with the same use year and that would get to the total points we wanted and we also only looked at ones with full 2019 points to keep the comparison to direct apples to apples. This reduced the number of possibilities to just 3 on those 2 sites at the time, so there was not a lot to choose from. With that said, when I went back to our actual sheet from back then, I was off a bit - the average was $151 (with the high being $155 and the low being $148 so there were none at $145 that fit our criteria back then) but your right, I was high on my post above by $4 assuming closing costs are the same vs. direct (sorry about that!).

As for MF, that one does give us pause but we hope (yes, it’s just hope at this point) that they will come into line in the next few years. RIV is already at the 2020 rate so there should not be any increase next year while the L14’s will go up some percentage, helping close the gap. Hopefully they overestimated a bit (already took planned wage increases into account, etc) since it’s new and the future increases will be less too, further closing the gap. Again, I acknowledge it’s a bunch of assumptions at this point and I’m concentrating on the “pro” side only.

So it’s a $22 a point difference (CC resale vs. RIV direct), not $18 as I originally said. It will be different for everyone, but for those $22 you do get some very different things at RIV. Here’s some of the differences that helped drive us to RIV direct:

• Studios max out at 5 vs. 4 for CC (this 25% increase in capacity almost makes the comparison moot because it would have excluded us from even using a CC studio on most of our trips)
• Studios are 100 sqft larger than CC (almost a 20% increase in space and more space is never a bad thing)
• Two real queen beds vs. a bed and a pullout at CC (very important if your mostly adults)
• A brand spanking new resort from top to bottom vs. a repurposed one
• A self-enclosed resort where you can get from room to lobby/shops/food without the sometimes long walks in heat or rain (big for us as we get older)
• Ability to book at all future resorts (we really did not want to be restricted to only the L14’s for the length of the contract)
• The blue card discounts (AP discounts for the full family can add up quickly)
• 2 more years of use (not a big deal but it was part of the overall cost analysis)
• Easy transportation to 2 of our preferred parks (TBD if this is a pro or a con )
• Points are on the high side but are relatively in line with the other deluxes that sleep 5 and have easy access to non-bus transportation.

Those things and a few others helped close the cost gap in our minds and hopefully it helps show some of the logic of why many have decided the resale restrictions and slightly higher cost (15% in this case) are offset by a lot of positives, some that have real dollar impact like max occupancy and AP discounts.

FYI, I finally decided to join Disboards, after having used it for much research for a decade or 2, because there was so much negativity directed at Riviera that I hoped to help bring a different perspective on why it might work for some people, even people who gave it much thought and analysis. The naysayers have assumed that you have to be a moron who did no research to buy into DVC’s new evil resort and its restrictions. Hopefully some of us have helped bring to light why it might work for some, even when comparing to resale.

 

[sethschroeder]

So it’s a $22 a point difference (CC resale vs. RIV direct), not $18 as I originally said. It will be different for everyone, but for those $22 you do get some very different things at RIV. Here’s some of the differences that helped drive us to RIV direct:

My whole purpose was really to just make sure to call out the point requirements vary greatly at resorts. I only brought up CC simply because you had called that out in your original post.

Points are on the high side but are relatively in line with the other deluxes that sleep 5 and have easy access to non-bus transportation.

This is a great example of a filtering question. When you say you need 5 in a studio your pool of resorts goes from 11 to 6. Of those 6, 3 of them have cheaper point requirements for rooms. Lots of ways to break it down in the end.