Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker discussion thread (*** now contains spoilers ***)

[tlmadden73]

That's definitely true. Target did a pretty big section for Force Friday, but they seem to have dwindled - like nothing has been restocked. I think that's just the nature of it now. TRU used to place BIG orders and others stores could benefit from that as the manufacturers were tooled up to fill them. Excess stock would wind up at discount stores too. Part of the issue is how expensive toys have gotten. They want over 10 bucks for a 3.75" action figure these days - it's a hard sell.

Ya .. the figures are awfully expensive. My son was more into the Galatic Heroes figures (smaller figures for preschoolers and early elementary school kids). I think they stopped that line as well. We dont see any Episode IX toys for that line.

I will just say this .. my wife went to Ollies ( a chain surplus store). The Star Wars Toy section there (even though it was older toys and Funko Pops) was larger than Target and Wal Mart combined. That definitely shows that Star Wars toys just was either over produced or just not selling well.

Probably didnt help that Star Wars was pushing the Lets market Star Wars to girls thing and those Forces of Destiny dolls sat on the shelves for a while.

Maybe Star Wars just isnt registering with the young generation .. my son is mainly into it because of me. *shrug*

 

[jade1]

Did they just get burned due to the lackluster toy buying from Last Jedi and Solo? (Which they just released WAY too close together).

Disproven with all the Marvel releases/success.

 

[Brianstl]

Ya .. the figures are awfully expensive. My son was more into the Galatic Heroes figures (smaller figures for preschoolers and early elementary school kids). I think they stopped that line as well. We dont see any Episode IX toys for that line.

I will just say this .. my wife went to Ollies ( a chain surplus store). The Star Wars Toy section there (even though it was older toys and Funko Pops) was larger than Target and Wal Mart combined. That definitely shows that Star Wars toys just was either over produced or just not selling well.

Probably didnt help that Star Wars was pushing the Lets market Star Wars to girls thing and those Forces of Destiny dolls sat on the shelves for a while.

Maybe Star Wars just isnt registering with the young generation .. my son is mainly into it because of me. *shrug*

You would think that Disney more than any other company would understand what appeals to the vast majority of boys as toys differs greatly than what appeals to girls. By trying to appeal to them both they ended up turning off the one market (boys) that would actually clamor for the stuff. It lost coolness by being directly associated with stuff boys generally don't like.

 

[tlmadden73]

Disproven with all the Marvel releases/success.

Agreed, there was Star Wars fatigue because Last Jedi was underwhelming .. not that Solo came out too soon. but the Marvel movies are different enough from each other that they can stand on their own .... but still not sure why they didnt just release Solo in December like the rest.

Long story short .. Lucasfilm has made some odd decisions regarding Star Wars the past few years and I hope it doesnt come back to bite them because I want to see Star Wars live on for much longer!

Just comes down to .. Star Wars films dont seem to have the long term vision that Marvel has had.

 

[Mikey15]

Disproven with all the Marvel releases/success.

That's actually part of the problem. Solo came out 4 weeks after Infinity War and a week or two after Deadpool... Marvel's success didn't carve out room for Solo. Meanwhile, unlike Marvel, Solo wasn't a serial episode of an ongoing story, but a prequel/origin story with a recast of an iconic character that made long-term fans hesitant. And that's on top of the negative PR of a "troubled" film that had to be saved by a new director.

I don't know if you just chalk it up to a perfect storm of circumstance, but the release date was the one preventable, unforced error, and I'm sad we may not get a Solo 2 because of it

 

[BrianL]

That's actually part of the problem. Solo came out 4 weeks after Infinity War and a week or two after Deadpool... Marvel's success didn't carve out room for Solo. Meanwhile, unlike Marvel, Solo wasn't a serial episode of an ongoing story, but a prequel/origin story with a recast of an iconic character that made long-term fans hesitant. And that's on top of the negative PR of a "troubled" film that had to be saved by a new director.

I don't know if you just chalk it up to a perfect storm of circumstance, but the release date was the one preventable, unforced error, and I'm sad we may not get a Solo 2 because of it

Yes, I don't think it was so much that it was too close to The Last Jedi, more that it was too close to Deadpool and Avengers. That was a tough slot!

I'm not sure they were ever going to make "Solo 2" though I do believe they were thinking about doing Boba Fett which would have likely picked up on a lot of the threads concerning the Underworld from Solo and used some of the same characters (Maybe even Han & Chewie but in more of a side role).

 

[jade1]

That's actually part of the problem. Solo came out 4 weeks after Infinity War and a week or two after Deadpool... Marvel's success didn't carve out room for Solo. Meanwhile, unlike Marvel, Solo wasn't a serial episode of an ongoing story, but a prequel/origin story with a recast of an iconic character that made long-term fans hesitant. And that's on top of the negative PR of a "troubled" film that had to be saved by a new director.

I don't know if you just chalk it up to a perfect storm of circumstance, but the release date was the one preventable, unforced error, and I'm sad we may not get a Solo 2 because of it

Valid, although Avengers doing $1.3B 2 months after B Panther did $1.3B (2 months after TLJ) makes me still question Solo doing $392M 5 months after TLJ.

 

[BrianL]

Valid, although Avengers doing $1.3B 2 months after B Panther did $1.3B makes me still question Solo doing $392M 5 months after TLJ.

But it's the fact that those two did $1.3B that had the real impact. There are only so many movie-goer dollars to go around. This has been a problem in Hollywood lately - there isn't enough wallet share to have a movie with a $250 Million budget released every month. Some of them must fail. A lot of people don't go to the movies every week, or even every month. In a window that small, something had to get squeezed out.

 

[jade1]

But it's the fact that those two did $1.3B that had the real impact. There are only so many movie-goer dollars to go around. This has been a problem in Hollywood lately - there isn't enough wallet share to have a movie with a $250 Million budget released every month. Some of them must fail. A lot of people don't go to the movies every week, or even every month. In a window that small, something had to get squeezed out.

I guess, but a week later Antman does $622M, the next week J World $1.3B, and the next week Incredilbles $1.2B.

 

[AvidDisReader]

If a movie is good, it will bring in customers and make the big dollars. Lets face it, Solo was ok at best and by most opinions a real mess. Calling it Star Wars overkill just does not ring true. 10 days to Rise of Skywater. Once released all speculations will end and we will judge the future of Star Wars by attendance response.

 

[BrianL]

I guess, but a week later Antman does $622M, the next week J World $1.3B, and the next week Incredilbles $1.2B.

Ant-Man was a month later, after Incredibles and Jurassic World 2. Incredibles was more than a month after Infinity War, and Jurassic was as well. If anything they hurt Ant-Man a little. Also, Solo did make $392M which is still a good chunk - without the bloated budget it probably would have been just fine - not great, but fine.

If a movie is good, it will bring in customers and make the big dollars. Lets face it, Solo was ok at best and by most opinions a real mess. Calling it Star Wars overkill just does not ring true. 10 days to Rise of Skywater. Once released all speculations will end and we will judge the future of Star Wars by attendance response.

This is false. A lot of "good" movies fail to make much money and a lot of "bad" movies make a ton. Monetary success is no indicator of film quality, which is subjective anyway. Most people I know loved Solo, especially Star Wars fans.

 

[AvidDisReader]

We can agree to disagree. Most Star War fans I know disliked Solo. Yes, some movies that are good do not make money and some that are not considered good do make money, but these are exceptions. I do not go by critic reviews, which I often find pompous. I like to see what the regular customer says on online chat boxes. Whether anyone likes it or not, the success of a movie does come down to box success.

 

[BrianL]

We can agree to disagree. Most Star War fans I know disliked Solo. Yes, some movies that are good do not make money and some that are not considered good do make money, but these are exceptions. I do not go by critic reviews, which I often find pompous. I like to see what the regular customer says on online chat boxes. Whether anyone likes it or not, the success of a movie does come down to box success.

Well, I think it's a stretch to say that Solo wasn't well received by the fans who did see it - the problem is that yeah, most fans didn't see it at all. Certainly success to the studios is all about the money, but, again, the idea that a "good" movie will find it's audience doesn't hold water. a LOT of terrible movies do make a ton of money too - explain Transformers to me? Obviously they make tons of money, yet general perception of them is poor. So many people dislike Avatar, yet it is still the second highest grossing movie of all time. Does that make it "good"? My point is that all of that is subjective. The money is not of course, and yes, Solo definitely failed in that regard - the reasons though are much more complicated than "it was a bad movie."

 

[maverik85]

Think this is the big thing. Not enough changed along with the recency of the movies. With Frozen 2 the characters had new outfits and stuff but also it had been 6 years since the prior film. So even if the outfits were the same the kids might just need new ones or there's a whole new group of kids for the movie to appeal to and market towards. With just two years between the Star Wars movie and the same characters, outfits, etc overall there just isn't a lot of new figures or audiences to appeal to.

 

[jade1]

Ant-Man was a month later, after Incredibles and Jurassic World 2. Incredibles was more than a month after Infinity War, and Jurassic was as well. If anything they hurt Ant-Man a little. Also, Solo did make $392M which is still a good chunk - without the bloated budget it probably would have been just fine - not great, but fine.

Ah good catch, but that' actually even worse IMO.

Not enough money to go around, but a week after Solo does $392M, JP does $1.3 B and the next week Incredibles does $1.2 B.

 

[OSUZorba]

Think this is the big thing. Not enough changed along with the recency of the movies. With Frozen 2 the characters had new outfits and stuff but also it had been 6 years since the prior film. So even if the outfits were the same the kids might just need new ones or there's a whole new group of kids for the movie to appeal to and market towards. With just two years between the Star Wars movie and the same characters, outfits, etc overall there just isn't a lot of new figures or audiences to appeal to.

Who wants to buy a bunch of figures, to play chase were the good guys basically do nothing by lose? IDK, I wasn't ever much of an action figure guy, but it doesn't seem like the current trilogy would be much fun to play.

Mandalorian, however... No idea why Baby Yoda isn't everywhere right now. And that is a story that would be fun to play, IMHO.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

Man the mental gymnastics in here to explain why no one wants toys off movies that weren’t good / characters who don’t resonate with fans is crazy.

 

[BrianL]

Ah good catch, but that' actually even worse IMO.

Not enough money to go around, but a week after Solo does $392M, JP does $1.3 B and the next week Incredibles does $1.2 B.

Well, I get what you're saying, but your dates are off:

Domestic Release Date & Totals:
Avengers: Infinity War: April 27 - $678 M
Deadpool 2: May 18 - $318 M
Solo: May 25 - $213 M
Incredibles 2: June 15 - $608 M
Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom: June 22 - $417 M
Ant Man & The Wasp: July 6 - $216 M

That's $2.45 B in US Box Office revenue. They couldn't all make $500 M based on that, but when they all need to make at least that to cover the budget, well, some are not going to make it.

That's a crowded schedule and things get squeezed out. Ant-Man and Solo were the losers. You can't go by worldwide totals for this because movies don't release in all regions at the same time, so the wallet-share can be spread out. Looking at the above, Solo was pretty close to Ant-Man in the US. Star Wars does have trouble with International appeal. I totally get it - Solo failed, no question, but many people are making assumptions as to why without even having the facts straight. The above list is facts (source: Box Office Mojo) - you can infer whatever conclusion you like, but there are actually a lot more factors that go into it.

 

[jade1]

Well, I get what you're saying, but your dates are off:

Domestic Release Date & Totals:
Avengers: Infinity War: April 27 - $678 M
Deadpool 2: May 18 - $318 M
Solo: May 25 - $213 M
Incredibles 2: June 15 - $608 M
Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom: June 22 - $417 M
Ant Man & The Wasp: July 6 - $216 M

That's $2.45 B in US Box Office revenue. They couldn't all make $500 M based on that, but when they all need to make at least that to cover the budget, well, some are not going to make it.

That's a crowded schedule and things get squeezed out. Ant-Man and Solo were the losers. You can't go by worldwide totals for this because movies don't release in all regions at the same time, so the wallet-share can be spread out. Looking at the above, Solo was pretty close to Ant-Man in the US. Star Wars does have trouble with International appeal. I totally get it - Solo failed, no question, but many people are making assumptions as to why without even having the facts straight. The above list is facts (source: Box Office Mojo) - you can infer whatever conclusion you like, but there are actually a lot more factors that go into it.

Say why you want, but a Star Wars movie in the middle of that mix taking last place is embarrassing IMO, and far more embarrassing how they all did Worldwide.

Agree with Antman taking a bit of a hit being the 3rd Marvel in 4 months, but even it did better domestic and 50% more than Solo WW,

Black Panther Feb 13 $700M / $1.3B
Avengers: Infinity War: April 27 - $678 M / $1.3B
Deadpool 2: May 18 - $318 M / $785M

Solo: A Star Wars Story May 25 - $213 M / $392M

Incredibles 2: June 15 - $608 M / $1.2B
Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom: June 22 - $417 M / $1.3B
Ant Man & The Wasp: July 6 - $216 M / $622

But back to the release, have heard a few good rumors and some not so good (IMO), so its just the final cut that will matter.

Repeat viewing will be what they need most IMO.

 

[mcjaco]

I will just say this .. my wife went to Ollies ( a chain surplus store). The Star Wars Toy section there (even though it was older toys and Funko Pops) was larger than Target and Wal Mart combined. That definitely shows that Star Wars toys just was either over produced or just not selling well.

Personally, I find Target, Walmart, etc.'s toy selections odd at best, any time of the year. I would never use the large "get anything you need here" big boxes as a barometer. The loss of Toys R Us was huge. As is online retail. I buy almost all my kid's toys online now, because I can find it there, and not likely on a shelf.

If a movie is good, it will bring in customers and make the big dollars. Lets face it, Solo was ok at best and by most opinions a real mess. Calling it Star Wars overkill just does not ring true. 10 days to Rise of Skywater. Once released all speculations will end and we will judge the future of Star Wars by attendance response.

I call this the "White Chicks" phenomenon. How that movie even got made, or still gets screen time, is beyond me.