Life as a Tri-pawd

sara_s

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Hi all - I hesitated posting this but am hoping someone has had a similar experience and can lend some advice.

My dog Ciara is a 7 year old shepherd mix. About 3 years ago, she was diagnosed with an ACL injury that had stabilized itself (right leg). The first time she showed signs of issues, we discovered this was not a new injury. The vet suggested we treat her conservatively with an anti-inflammatory (Rovera) and rest. He said statistically, fixing the ACL would not prevent arthritis from forming, and then numbers did not indicate we should, etc. So since then, while she walks with a little bit of a limp, we give her the Rovera as needed and she is happy and healthy.

A couple weeks ago, we had people working in our house, which unsettled her, and she was favoring her right leg to the point of only using 3 legs, which is not the norm. I thought it might be a particularly bad tweak, so I took her to the vet for an x-ray, which is the only type of test we haven't done since the original issue. The x-ray showed some weakening of the bone that lines up with all the scar tissue in the leg. The vet and radiologist honestly could not tell us for sure if it is advanced arthritis (which is a normal effect of her injury), or possibly a bone tumor. We did a chest x-ray, which came out completely normal, which is a good sign).

The vet gave us Tamarol (narcotic) to use with the Rovera and after a week, she was walking on all 4 legs again and appears to be better overall, which makes him think it is in fact arthritis. HOWEVER, his orthopedist took a look at the leg x-ray on Friday and while he too is leaning toward arthritis, the suggestion at this point is to do a bone biopsy, which will tell us definitely one way or the other. If the sample comes back as cancer, the recommendation would be amputation of the leg (something I'm not ready to think about).

I've been an anxious mess over this whole ordeal. I was starting to think we were past this until I got that call today. I know that I should see this all the way through, and the odds are that it is the suspected arthritis, but I am so uneasy about putting her through this invasive procedure.

My understanding is that due to the scar tissue build up, getting the sample will not be as simple as normal, and what would be 3-4 days of recovery could be 7-10.

I asked the vet what the recovery is like, and he indicated that they give her heavier pain meds, and she has to wear a cone, but other than that it is simple. It's not that I don't believe him, it's that sometimes I feel like this is so ordinary for a vet that they don't realize that I have no idea what to expect in a realistic sense. I get the feeling that she will be immobile for that amount of time, and that will be hard for us to accomplish because she is used to roaming the house, picking different spots to sleep, etc.

So....that is a long-winded way of me asking - has anyone had this procedure done on their dog before? If so, what can I expect in terms of the procedure and recovery?

She is 55-60 lb. dog, so it's not like I can keep her on the couch with me (which she'll hate). I'm trying to stay positive but the truth is I'm very nervous and upset about the thought of causing her pain. I appreciate anyone's advice about what to expect, similar stories, etc.

Thanks all! <3
 
I'm sorry this is happening to your dog and you. :hug:

One of my German Shepherds died of a bone tumor in his front leg. At the time, there weren't a lot of options. We could've amputated the leg, but he was older (10 or 11) and a little arthritic and it would've been hard for him. They also said they didn't think it would make a lot of difference in terms of survival time. So we treated him with pain medication and chose to focus on quality of life instead of quantity. It was hard, though, and I was pretty devastated.

Things have changed today in terms of diagnosis and treatment. But I think you still have to focus on what's best for the dog, as well as consider other factors like what your finances and schedule can handle, etc. This is realistic. People can spend thousands of dollars on testing, diagnosing, and treating, but a) it either it might not actually buy a lot of time if there is a devastating diagnosis or b) quality of life with pain and illness from the procedures themselves are no picnic for anyone, either. (And sometimes we don't realize this until we go through them ourselves.) But I digress...

I get what they're thinking - if it is a bone tumor, it's likely early, and you might have time to stop the cancer spread (with amputation) before it gets larger and enters the bloodstream (if it hasn't already). It's a good sign there's no tumors in his chest, but that doesn't necessarily mean that if he does has cancer, that it hasn't been circulating around his bloodstream already and harvesting cancer cells in other organs. (Ugh, tough to think about, I know.)

On the other hand, who's to say it's a bone tumor, necessarily? He's had a history of problems in that spot so there are likely changes to that area that include arthritis, maybe scar tissue, etc., that could well be causing the problems you're seeing now. I think it likely wouldn't hurt to take a wait and see approach to see how it plays out in the next month or two. You could repeat the imaging to see if the area of concern has grown or not, and if it hasn't, then just continue to watch it. This is the most conservative approach. Treat with medication for pain as you're doing. You can always go down the other road if you have to later.

I'd have to research the latest information on bone tumors in dogs today (which I'm sorry, but I don't have time to do right now; I actually like doing that type of research so if I can later, I will, and repost here), but I'd want to know what survival rates are with things like amputation and chemotherapy or radiation currently. I know when I was researching it for my dog, there wasn't a big difference in survival time whether you intervened or not, so I couldn't see the sense of it. But honestly, I think in this situation my inclination would be to not jump into doing things like bone biopsies just yet. Those can be extremely painful and I'm not sure there's really an indication for it right now.

Good luck. Scratches to Clara, she is a lucky dog! :dog:
 
I don't know anything at all about the procedure you are asking about but I just wanted to offer hugs.

We had to put our 14 1/2 year old cocker spaniel to sleep on Friday. It was very difficult and I am knee deep in the mourning process now. They sure do find a way into our hearts don't they?
 
I don't know anything at all about the procedure you are asking about but I just wanted to offer hugs.

We had to put our 14 1/2 year old cocker spaniel to sleep on Friday. It was very difficult and I am knee deep in the mourning process now. They sure do find a way into our hearts don't they?
Oh, so sorry to hear that. Hugs to you.
 


Almost a year ago our Golden (the one in my avatar here) was diagnosed with Osteosarcoma in his left front leg. They did the bone biopsy because the x-rays and needle aspiration were inconclusive. The biopsy was sent to Colorado State University vet program. They looked at each layer individually. It was the third and final layer that they found the cancer. He was officially diagnosed on his 7th birthday.

To answer your question about recovery, Dug was about 85lbs at the time. He did limp for a few days.

I understand all of your emotions as we went through everyone of them before and after the diagnosis. Our oncology vet told use that dogs come with "3 legs and a spare". Having family members and friends go through chemo we were skeptical about that as well. She said dogs do not have the same side affects as humans. We were torn about what to do.

We did the amputation on Dug probably before the biopsy site completely healed. The day after the surgery he hoped to the car. Three days after surgery he jumped over a baby gate at my mom's house as DH and I were leaving him at Grandma's so she could babysit him. Three weeks after the amputation he was chasing tennis balls at the park, running faster than his brother after the ball.

We also did chemo. It was once every three weeks I think. He may have been a bit tired after each of the treatments, but that's it. He never got sick or lost any fur. His fur wasn't as soft and fluffy, but that was it. He is now on a daily low-dose pill chemo.

Would we do any of it again? Yes. It has been worth every dime we've spent. He is back volunteering at the hospital and at the airport. Other than chasing a ball, his favorite activities are playing with his older Golden brother and chasing his cat and being chased by the cat.

The time-line for osteosarcoma dogs is about one year form diagnosis as it is a very aggressive cancer. The cancer will usually show up in the lungs next or other organs. However, we just had his check-up with x-rays and he is still symptom free! We know the cancer is still there somewhere because it doesn't go away even with an amputation, but it hasn't reared its ugly head yet and Dug is beating the one year odds.

I hope it's nothing more than arthritis! Good luck and give your puppy hugs!
 
Oh, so sorry to hear that. Hugs to you.

Thank you. It wasn't totally unexpected, she was almost 15 years old after all. She was super healthy up until about a month ago. Other than some normal signs of aging, issues with night vision, hearing loss, and some lack of bladder control that was controlled with hormones, she had no health problems at all. Then, all of a sudden, she started losing weight about a month ago. The last two weeks she lost some pep and in the last week she stopped eating and drinking, stopped following me around (which she would always do before) and kept going off by herself in a corner of the basement and curl up. The vet said she probably had organ failure. The research I have done after the fact makes me think he was probably right.

She was a wonderful pet. I could not have asked for a better family dog. She is greatly missed.
 
Thank you. It wasn't totally unexpected, she was almost 15 years old after all. She was super healthy up until about a month ago. Other than some normal signs of aging, issues with night vision, hearing loss, and some lack of bladder control that was controlled with hormones, she had no health problems at all. Then, all of a sudden, she started losing weight about a month ago. The last two weeks she lost some pep and in the last week she stopped eating and drinking, stopped following me around (which she would always do before) and kept going off by herself in a corner of the basement and curl up. The vet said she probably had organ failure. The research I have done after the fact makes me think he was probably right.

She was a wonderful pet. I could not have asked for a better family dog. She is greatly missed.
Aww, that's so sad. But it sounds like she had a wonderful life with you. All dogs should be so lucky! I'm glad she didn't suffer for a long time.
 


When deciding on procedures for anyone (humans or animals) my first question is “what information are we looking for”? Then “what are we going to do with this information”?

The PPs post about her dog Dug (which I love tat name BTW!) gives you some practical advice and personal experience with what could be a similar situation to the one you’re in.

If you’re not going to do anything with the information, then I probably wouldn’t put the dog through thebprocedure just so you would “know”. If you would do something with the information, then it would depend on quality of life impact for the dog.
 
I'm sorry this is happening to your dog and you. :hug:

One of my German Shepherds died of a bone tumor in his front leg. At the time, there weren't a lot of options. We could've amputated the leg, but he was older (10 or 11) and a little arthritic and it would've been hard for him. They also said they didn't think it would make a lot of difference in terms of survival time. So we treated him with pain medication and chose to focus on quality of life instead of quantity. It was hard, though, and I was pretty devastated.

Things have changed today in terms of diagnosis and treatment. But I think you still have to focus on what's best for the dog, as well as consider other factors like what your finances and schedule can handle, etc. This is realistic. People can spend thousands of dollars on testing, diagnosing, and treating, but a) it either it might not actually buy a lot of time if there is a devastating diagnosis or b) quality of life with pain and illness from the procedures themselves are no picnic for anyone, either. (And sometimes we don't realize this until we go through them ourselves.) But I digress...

I get what they're thinking - if it is a bone tumor, it's likely early, and you might have time to stop the cancer spread (with amputation) before it gets larger and enters the bloodstream (if it hasn't already). It's a good sign there's no tumors in his chest, but that doesn't necessarily mean that if he does has cancer, that it hasn't been circulating around his bloodstream already and harvesting cancer cells in other organs. (Ugh, tough to think about, I know.)

On the other hand, who's to say it's a bone tumor, necessarily? He's had a history of problems in that spot so there are likely changes to that area that include arthritis, maybe scar tissue, etc., that could well be causing the problems you're seeing now. I think it likely wouldn't hurt to take a wait and see approach to see how it plays out in the next month or two. You could repeat the imaging to see if the area of concern has grown or not, and if it hasn't, then just continue to watch it. This is the most conservative approach. Treat with medication for pain as you're doing. You can always go down the other road if you have to later.

I'd have to research the latest information on bone tumors in dogs today (which I'm sorry, but I don't have time to do right now; I actually like doing that type of research so if I can later, I will, and repost here), but I'd want to know what survival rates are with things like amputation and chemotherapy or radiation currently. I know when I was researching it for my dog, there wasn't a big difference in survival time whether you intervened or not, so I couldn't see the sense of it. But honestly, I think in this situation my inclination would be to not jump into doing things like bone biopsies just yet. Those can be extremely painful and I'm not sure there's really an indication for it right now.

Good luck. Scratches to Clara, she is a lucky dog! :dog:

Thanks so much for your story. I am looking at the link you posted too! You're absolutely right, there are a lot of factors to consider and ultimately what is best for the dog.

I don't know anything at all about the procedure you are asking about but I just wanted to offer hugs.

We had to put our 14 1/2 year old cocker spaniel to sleep on Friday. It was very difficult and I am knee deep in the mourning process now. They sure do find a way into our hearts don't they?

I'm so sorry to hear about your dog. It really is a blow, no matter how long we get them for. But I'm sure she had the best life and she was loved. Hugs to you as well.

Almost a year ago our Golden (the one in my avatar here) was diagnosed with Osteosarcoma in his left front leg. They did the bone biopsy because the x-rays and needle aspiration were inconclusive. The biopsy was sent to Colorado State University vet program. They looked at each layer individually. It was the third and final layer that they found the cancer. He was officially diagnosed on his 7th birthday.

To answer your question about recovery, Dug was about 85lbs at the time. He did limp for a few days.

I understand all of your emotions as we went through everyone of them before and after the diagnosis. Our oncology vet told use that dogs come with "3 legs and a spare". Having family members and friends go through chemo we were skeptical about that as well. She said dogs do not have the same side affects as humans. We were torn about what to do.

We did the amputation on Dug probably before the biopsy site completely healed. The day after the surgery he hoped to the car. Three days after surgery he jumped over a baby gate at my mom's house as DH and I were leaving him at Grandma's so she could babysit him. Three weeks after the amputation he was chasing tennis balls at the park, running faster than his brother after the ball.

We also did chemo. It was once every three weeks I think. He may have been a bit tired after each of the treatments, but that's it. He never got sick or lost any fur. His fur wasn't as soft and fluffy, but that was it. He is now on a daily low-dose pill chemo.

Would we do any of it again? Yes. It has been worth every dime we've spent. He is back volunteering at the hospital and at the airport. Other than chasing a ball, his favorite activities are playing with his older Golden brother and chasing his cat and being chased by the cat.

The time-line for osteosarcoma dogs is about one year form diagnosis as it is a very aggressive cancer. The cancer will usually show up in the lungs next or other organs. However, we just had his check-up with x-rays and he is still symptom free! We know the cancer is still there somewhere because it doesn't go away even with an amputation, but it hasn't reared its ugly head yet and Dug is beating the one year odds.

I hope it's nothing more than arthritis! Good luck and give your puppy hugs!

I am so glad to hear about Dug's recovery and continued health! I feel better thinking that she will be a little gimpier than normal, but she is used to favoring her stronger leg so it will hopefully not be as bad as I am imagining. The roller coaster of emotion is getting the best of me, I'm afraid.

Thank you everyone for the words of encouragement. We've decided to move forward with the biopsy for peace of mind. I know we will have to make a decision based on the results and the recommendation of the doctors, but I am hopeful that this is something manageable like arthritis. If not, we will have to cross that bridge when we come to it. I will post an update once I have a date from the doctor who will be performing the procedure.

:grouphug:
 
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When deciding on procedures for anyone (humans or animals) my first question is “what information are we looking for”? Then “what are we going to do with this information”?

The PPs post about her dog Dug (which I love tat name BTW!) gives you some practical advice and personal experience with what could be a similar situation to the one you’re in.

If you’re not going to do anything with the information, then I probably wouldn’t put the dog through thebprocedure just so you would “know”. If you would do something with the information, then it would depend on quality of life impact for the dog.

Agreed. We feel like we need to know, but we also are prepared to take action as recommended. I'm hoping it's the arthritis, which is no picnic, but the vet says is treatable. We shall see.
 
I am sorry, I hope your dog is okay. My dog has had a lot of health problems (cancer and other tumors) this year and it is really hard to know what to do, especially when they start getting older. My dog does not do very well with surgery so its hard to know just how much I should put her through. We did go through with our surgeries, but I have a feeling it is not the last time in the near future that we are going to be debating this again.

Good luck!!
 
Agreed. We feel like we need to know, but we also are prepared to take action as recommended. I'm hoping it's the arthritis, which is no picnic, but the vet says is treatable. We shall see.
The last thing I'll add is that, if you have a good relationship with your own vet (not the orthopedist) take him or her aside and ask what they would do if it were their own dog. The answer might be telling. Veterinary medicine is not like human medicine in some ways. Animals can't speak for themselves. Veterinarians can be put in a tough position when either you have people that don't want to do anything for their pets, or there are people who want to do too much. They are still bound by "First, do no harm": Just because we can do something doesn't always mean we should. I would say there should be a very strong indication of something like osteosarcoma before going the biopsy route, i.e. not just a weak "could be". But ultimately that decision is up to you. It also could be that the although the ortho recommended it, your own vet doesn't necessarily agree with the need for it (but didn't want to say anything in front of the ortho). That, I would find out before moving forward. Remember that surgeons like to do surgery. If you look at that medical article, there is also a small chance that the biopsy will be inconclusive (after the dog went through all that; I have had it happen before). If it's a tumor, it will show itself soon enough.

An article for your perusal:

https://www.petmd.com/blogs/thedail...arm-in-vet-medicine-means-doing-nothing-31071
 
Our 85 lb 10 yr old Bluetick hound went in for a teeth cleaning a year ago, and when they went to intubate him, they found a "narrowing" of the throat which could be a tumor (or could be scar tissue). We were referred to a big city vet, had extensive exterior testing but NO biopsy (still a thousand dollars) because for OUR dog, if it had been cancer, surgery would have been VERY invasive, the prognosis poor, and recovery long and difficult. This was an extremely difficult decision for us. He is still with us a year later, on a very expensive bronchiodialator, prednisone, and is showing signs of CHF, but is hanging in there, and is "happy" (happier, I have to think, then if we would have put him through surgery).

Honestly, a leg is a completely different situation. You have to know YOUR dog. Just like people, some are good patients, and some aren't, through no fault of their own. Honestly, even if our dog's had been in his leg instead of his throat, I probably would not have done a biopsy since it would have led to surgery, and he is overly sensitive, crate trained but hates it, and lives to run and play. For him, he'd rather have a busy, shorter life, than days of pain followed by weeks of recovery. However, we have a 5 year old who would be an excellent example of the opposite, and who I might very well take the chance with.

No matter what, please do NOT feel guilty for whatever decision you make. You have to do what's best for your dog, and for your finances, honestly.

Terri
 
The last thing I'll add is that, if you have a good relationship with your own vet (not the orthopedist) take him or her aside and ask what they would do if it were their own dog. The answer might be telling.
I have done this on several occasions over the decades we have used our vet. I have found his answers to be honest and very helpful.
 
Our 85 lb 10 yr old Bluetick hound went in for a teeth cleaning a year ago, and when they went to intubate him, they found a "narrowing" of the throat which could be a tumor (or could be scar tissue). We were referred to a big city vet, had extensive exterior testing but NO biopsy (still a thousand dollars) because for OUR dog, if it had been cancer, surgery would have been VERY invasive, the prognosis poor, and recovery long and difficult. This was an extremely difficult decision for us. He is still with us a year later, on a very expensive bronchiodialator, prednisone, and is showing signs of CHF, but is hanging in there, and is "happy" (happier, I have to think, then if we would have put him through surgery).

Honestly, a leg is a completely different situation. You have to know YOUR dog. Just like people, some are good patients, and some aren't, through no fault of their own. Honestly, even if our dog's had been in his leg instead of his throat, I probably would not have done a biopsy since it would have led to surgery, and he is overly sensitive, crate trained but hates it, and lives to run and play. For him, he'd rather have a busy, shorter life, than days of pain followed by weeks of recovery. However, we have a 5 year old who would be an excellent example of the opposite, and who I might very well take the chance with.

No matter what, please do NOT feel guilty for whatever decision you make. You have to do what's best for your dog, and for your finances, honestly.

Terri

Thanks Terri. That's how I am feeling about the results. While the vet and surgeon believe it's arthritis, if it does turn out to be cancer, at this point I don't see myself easily willing to amputate. Ciara is pretty sensitive as well - she hated crate training and just really likes to sleep on the couch or go on walks and sniff every blade of grass. I want to let her live her life and while it hurts me not to have her as long as I wanted, her quality of life means more to me. And statistics, financials, and the vet's personal opinion all get rolled up into that decision. But I'm still hopeful that we will find arthritis and nothing more.
 
Almost a year ago our Golden (the one in my avatar here) was diagnosed with Osteosarcoma in his left front leg. They did the bone biopsy because the x-rays and needle aspiration were inconclusive. The biopsy was sent to Colorado State University vet program. They looked at each layer individually. It was the third and final layer that they found the cancer. He was officially diagnosed on his 7th birthday.

To answer your question about recovery, Dug was about 85lbs at the time. He did limp for a few days.

I understand all of your emotions as we went through everyone of them before and after the diagnosis. Our oncology vet told use that dogs come with "3 legs and a spare". Having family members and friends go through chemo we were skeptical about that as well. She said dogs do not have the same side affects as humans. We were torn about what to do.

We did the amputation on Dug probably before the biopsy site completely healed. The day after the surgery he hoped to the car. Three days after surgery he jumped over a baby gate at my mom's house as DH and I were leaving him at Grandma's so she could babysit him. Three weeks after the amputation he was chasing tennis balls at the park, running faster than his brother after the ball.

We also did chemo. It was once every three weeks I think. He may have been a bit tired after each of the treatments, but that's it. He never got sick or lost any fur. His fur wasn't as soft and fluffy, but that was it. He is now on a daily low-dose pill chemo.

Would we do any of it again? Yes. It has been worth every dime we've spent. He is back volunteering at the hospital and at the airport. Other than chasing a ball, his favorite activities are playing with his older Golden brother and chasing his cat and being chased by the cat.

The time-line for osteosarcoma dogs is about one year form diagnosis as it is a very aggressive cancer. The cancer will usually show up in the lungs next or other organs. However, we just had his check-up with x-rays and he is still symptom free! We know the cancer is still there somewhere because it doesn't go away even with an amputation, but it hasn't reared its ugly head yet and Dug is beating the one year odds.

I hope it's nothing more than arthritis! Good luck and give your puppy hugs!


Great to hear. Our story is much the same for our golden. He was diagnosed with Osteosarcoma in October 2017 in his left front leg as well. He was around 7 or 8 ( he was rescue so not positive) and around 100lbs. Dr said we could do amputation ($1500.00) and get him another 3 months or chemo ($3500.00) may get him another 6 months. We ended up deciding to do neither and just treat the pain and inflammation. It was a tough choice but in the end turned out to be the right one. We had to put him down in March of 2018. We miss him greatly.

To original poster I hope it is just arthritis. If it turns out to be the worst and you need a specialist, I would try Blue Pearl. They have a lot of locations in Florida.
 
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Great to hear. Our story is much the same for our golden. He was diagnosed with Osteosarcoma in October 2017 in his left front leg as well. He was around 7 or 8 ( he was rescue so not positive) and around 100lbs. Dr said we could do amputation ($1500.00) and get him another 3 months or chemo ($3500.00) may get him another 6 months. We ended up deciding to do neither and just treat the pain and inflammation. It was a tough choice but in the end turned out to be the right one. We had to put him down in March of 2018. We miss him greatly.
I'm so sorry to hear about your pup, but I'm glad that you felt comfortable with your decision and trusted your gut. It's hard when you hear a lot of opinions in your head. It's never easy.
 
Hey all, just an update: we've scheduled the biopsy for 10/30. Wish it were sooner but that was the first time the surgeon was available. Hopefully we can put this behind us with a good result.
 
Update #2 - Ciara had her biopsy procedure done yesterday. She did very well with the anesthesia and all her vitals were spot on according to the surgeon. She is definitely sore, but last night wasn't too bad. I slept on the couch and moved her bed next to me and she was able to sleep through the night with the cone on. I only got about 3 hours of sleep, but I think once we get past the initial 48 hours, she'll start coming around.

She's groggy and resting just like she should be, but eating and drinking normally.

The bad news is I got the indication that we may be looking at a cancer diagnosis. The surgeon mentioned the bone being a little "soft," which is more indicative of a tumor than arthritis. So we probably have a difficult decision ahead of us. I'm trying to think positive and logically weigh the options without letting my emotions get the best of me (something I often do). At the end of the day, I want to do what's best for her quality of life, and hopefully the vet will give us realistic timelines to mull over.
 

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