My Journey to 50 miles (2nd attempt)... (comments welcome)

Wow... really slacking on updating this.
Made all my garage workouts last week! Yay me!!
Rode the boring recumbent bike because I'm too big a sissy to run in the ice and snow!!
And then Saturday came.... It was nice enough and the roads/sidewalks were finally clear enough to go RUNNING!!! Got 3.5 miles in!! Yippee skippy!!!

Fitbit stats

Total distance 3.55
Total time 37:43
Mile 1- 10:09 <--- must have been excited to get outside and run!
Mile 2- 10:22
Mile 3- 10:56
.55 mile 11:17
avg heart rate 162

Some of the shady spots on the sidewalks were still sketchy but I just ran around those spots. It felt soooo good to get out!!

Going forward. Because isn't that why we are all here?
My plan was to begin half marathon training this week. I believe it goes something like 3, 3, 4 Tues, Thur, Sunday.
Now, I haven't been able to get out much the last couple weeks and I thought I might have to make some adjustments.
However, I think I'm going to just start where I'm at and stick with the schedule I have. I've already run these distances and I'm pretty comfy in getting thru them.
I think this training plan puts me into June or so when I'm ready for a half. Now to find one a reasonable distance from home to run sometime around then!
 
Skipped Monday's garage workout....DW wasn't feeling it. But it gave me time to work on my next project for my younger grandson.

Tuesday's run is already complete!!

Fitbit stats
Total time 30:55
Total distance 3.22

mile 1- 9:59
mile 2- 9:31
mile 3- 9:17 <---- where did that come from? Yay me!!
.22 mile- 9:25
Avg pace 9:35
Avg Heart rate 162

So I ran a newish loop today. It doesn't have any long drawn out hills and is for the most part pretty flat.
I've run it before, but usually as part of a longer loop. It is a little more than a mile and is perfect for my shorter runs. I ran three loops with Sully today and it felt really good!
The pace was comfortable and I didn't feel like I was struggling at all.

I wonder if I can get back to sub 9 min miles at some point.....

Edit: Forgot to mention my Strava PR's!!!
Six PR's
5k- 29:34
2 mile 18:38
1 mile 9:12
1 k- 5:33
1/2 mile 4:26
400 meter 2:10
:rockband:
 
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Thanks Princess! I'm feeling pretty good about my progress lately, even though I'm still impatient and want to see more!!

No workout last night. I'm experiencing a wee bit o' discomfort in my back, so I'm going to rest it a few days.

Worked on and finished this instead.

53055662_10215190827787202_7767503489311178752_n.jpg


This was for my youngest grandson who loves!! Marvel.

Could be that this was contributing to the back issues. I think I need to raise my workbench about a foot. I spend too much time hunched over at the current height.
 
So lasts nights run was fantastic! Weather was mid 40's and sunny!!!! Though it's chunky raining out now.

Fitbit Stats
Total distance3.21 miles
Total time 34:24
Mile 1- 10:22
Mile 2- 10:50
Mile 3- 10:57
.21 mile- 10:49
Avg heart rate 156

Though my time was slower than Tuesday, it was a different route with more/longer hills. I ran at a comfy pace and kept my heart rate down a bit. Feeling good at the beginning of my half marathon training!
 
Sunday run.

Fitbit Stats
Total distance 4.02 miles
Total time 42:34
Mile 1- 10:26
Mile 2- 10:53
Mile 3- 10:45
Mile 4- 10:19
Avg heart rate 162

First week of half marathon training is now in the books. I managed to get all my runs in and I feel pretty good about that! Nice afternoon for a run. Mid 40's and mostly cloudy.
 


Chilly Tuesday morning run! 32 and clear at 3:15am... Crawled my buns out of bed and grabbed the leash for my running buddy!!

Fitbit stats
Total distance 3.01 miles
Total time 30:44
Mile 1- 10:19
Mile 2- 10:05
Mile 3- 10:09
Avg heart rate 165
 
Chilly Tuesday morning run! 32 and clear at 3:15am... Crawled my buns out of bed and grabbed the leash for my running buddy!!

Fitbit stats
Total distance 3.01 miles
Total time 30:44
Mile 1- 10:19
Mile 2- 10:05
Mile 3- 10:09
Avg heart rate 165
3:15am??? Wow!
 
3:15am??? Wow!

:scared1::scared1::scared1:
And I thought I was an early riser at 4:30am!

My morning normally starts at 4am. So its really only an hour early!

Had a weekend away with my lovely wife! Got my Sunday run in on the hotel treadmill. Don't really have any stats since I ran and walked. But I got my 4 mile run in! I'm totally impressed by anyone that can do more than 5 miles on a treadmill!! Of course I forgot my headphones, so I didn't have any music. But, dang... it was all I could do to concentrate for the 4 miles I put on.

We had a great weekend of shopping, eating, drinking, shopping, eating and drinking! It was a great little getaway! Next weekend away is DW's bday weekend. We are going to see Thomas Rhett, one of her faves! Of course it works out for me too, I'm going to do a 5k that morning and then go to the LeMay car museum on our way to the concert! Sadly, that isn't until May....
 
Tuesday.... didn't really feel like running today. Kinda wanted to go home after work and veg in my garage and work on some projects I have going. But, I got out and did my miles!

Fitbit stats

Total distance 3.53 miles
Total time 37:18
Mile 1- 10:33
Mile 2- 10:38
Mile 3- 10:38
.53 miles 10:23
Avg heart rate 168

Heart rate was elevated compared to similar runs and times. Not sure why, but looking at the chart it seems my heart was really working hard the first mile or so and then settled down after that. I'd estimate that the avg was 162 after that. I'm just making a note of it to refer back to later if I need to.
 
Wow... Life has been crazy busy since the last update. No time at work, busy at home, weather was sketchy, all conspiring against me to make up a lame excuse to not update this for 4 days! The good news is that I got my runs in!!

Thursday Fitbit stats

Total time 36:40
Total distance 3.54 miles
mile 1- 10:20
mile 2- 10:19
mile 3- 10:19
.54 miles 10:26

Avg pace 10:20
Avg heart rate 165

Sunday Fitbit stats
Total time 54:10
Total distance 5.01 miles
mile 1- 10:13
mile 2- 10:49
mile 3- 11:09
mile 4- 10:56
mile 5- 10:50

Avg pace 10:48
Avg heart rate 160

This completes week 2 of my half marathon training. The weather yesterday was amazing! Low 50's and SUNNY!! I'll take that as a near perfect day for a run! Sunday's run was a bit of a physical struggle. Dealt with back spasm's around the surgery area the last few miles. I attribute this to a physically demanding day at work... I'm getting too old to be dragging 200 amp extension cords 100's of feet. Enough whining.... On to this weeks runs!!!
 
Tuesday's run is in the books! Tried to push myself a little today. This of course led to my heart rate being a little higher. But, I wanted to see how I felt after running a little harder. It was a busy night for exercise at the homestead. 3.5 mile run, garage workout and then a 2+ mile walk with my oldest grandson after dinner! I was pretty beat after the run and the workout but, he NEVER asked me if I want to go for a walk. So of course I couldn't say no. He must have saved all his words for the whole day yesterday because that boy talked from the time we left the house until the time we got back. Loved every minute of that walk!!

Fitbit stats
Total distance 3.52 miles
Total time 35:08
mile 1- 10:09
mile 2- 9:46
mile 3- 9:54
.52 mile- 10:05
avg pace 9:58
avg heart rate 168

I'll go back to my slower pace for Thursday's run. Hoping I can drag my rear out of bed and get it done before work!!
 
Thursdays run is dun!!
Fitbit Stats
Total distance 3.55 miles
Total time 38:26
mile 1- 11:06
mile 2- 11:16
mile 3- 10:07
.55 miles- 10:39
avg pace 10:48
avg heart rate 158

Ok. I know none of you are doctors and I'm not asking for medical advice (unless you ARE a doc and then feel free).
I'm looking over my heart rate data from the last year or so.
At this time last year I was running about the same distances with similar paces.
But my heart rate last year was 20 beats less/min last year when compared with this year.
So, obviously I've had some significant changes in my life since then and I'm wondering if I should go see a doc or maybe get a second heart rate monitor for running.
Before my accident I had a different fitbit and all of my heart rate data shows less with that fitbit. My resting heart rate was 46/47 with the old fitbit. And with the new fitbit it's never been less than 51.

Is it possible the new fitbit is reading wrong/differently?
Or is it possible that I have an diagnosed issue from the accident?
Or am I just in worse shape than I was at this time last year?
Or am I just being paranoid and need to relax about it? Maybe I'm just putting too much stock into the numbers.

I'm definitely not pushing myself any harder than I was last year. As a matter of fact I'm barely winded after the runs. That's one reason I'm so confused, I still feel like I have tons of gas left in the tank, even after my long run.

I feel if I go any slower to keep my heart rate down, I might as well be walking...... ugh

Billy, @DopeyBadger I know you are a data junkie.... you have any input?
 
Ok. I know none of you are doctors and I'm not asking for medical advice (unless you ARE a doc and then feel free).

Most definitely not a doctor, so take what I say with that caveat.

I'm looking over my heart rate data from the last year or so.
At this time last year I was running about the same distances with similar paces.
But my heart rate last year was 20 beats less/min last year when compared with this year.
So, obviously I've had some significant changes in my life since then and I'm wondering if I should go see a doc or maybe get a second heart rate monitor for running.
Before my accident I had a different fitbit and all of my heart rate data shows less with that fitbit. My resting heart rate was 46/47 with the old fitbit. And with the new fitbit it's never been less than 51.

Is it possible the new fitbit is reading wrong/differently?
Or is it possible that I have an diagnosed issue from the accident?
Or am I just in worse shape than I was at this time last year?
Or am I just being paranoid and need to relax about it? Maybe I'm just putting too much stock into the numbers.

I'm definitely not pushing myself any harder than I was last year. As a matter of fact I'm barely winded after the runs. That's one reason I'm so confused, I still feel like I have tons of gas left in the tank, even after my long run.

I feel if I go any slower to keep my heart rate down, I might as well be walking...... ugh

There are certainly confounding factors with the comparison of your HR data now to a year ago. The accident and changing devices are two variables.

1) Are you on any medication that you weren't on prior to the accident (and you don't have to answer this on here, but more so think to yourself). Because medications can definitely alter HR output (both during life and during exercise).

2) Second is that without testing the two devices side by side, it's hard to say which is real and which was not. Although 20 bpm is way beyond what I would consider a marginal error difference between the two devices. The resting HR is close, but how about the maxHR? On what you would consider hard runs, have you seen similar top end values? Because if the maxHR for one device has dramatically shifted, then so would the %HRR relative to that device. Thus, 65% HRR would be two different HRs which in theory could be separated by 20 bpm (but again seeing that big of difference in two optical HR monitors would be surprising unless one of them was truly junky). So while we can't conclude it isn't the devices differences, as long as they were both properly worn, I'd venture to guess this is not the case.

So for the sake of argument, let's say the two devices should output the same value, and that you aren't on any medication or had any ill effects from the accident. Is it possible for your HR to be different at similar distances and similar paces to last year? Certainly. A few other considerations when trying to do a HRvPace comparison.

1) Temperature + Dew Point. The T+D of a run can easily influence the relationship between HRvPace. As it gets hotter, we have to work harder to maintain the same pace. Working harder to maintain the same pace means we're likely to output a higher HR average. You said compared to a similar time last year. So it would stand to reason that you may be experiencing similar weather.

2) Elevation gain. The amount of hills in a run can easily influence the relationship between HRvPace as well. Do a super flat run and you're likely to see your best HRvPace relationship. Do a run with a ton of steep hills and yet maintain the same pace as the flat run, then you're likely to see a worse relationship between HRvPace. Because the HR will be reflective of the extra effort necessary to maintain pace on the hills. So are the course maps of the runs today similar to those from last year?

3) Loss/Gain of fitness. This is at the core of why we would even do a HRvPace comparison. It's a secondary mean (primary being PacevEffort and race performance) by which we can assess performance increases or decreases. If we isolate the other key variables (same device, T+D is similar, and elevation is similar) then we can start to make comparisons of today's HR data (as an average) compared to past performances. Something like this:

Screen Shot 2019-03-15 at 1.18.03 PM.png

Where over the course of several two week chunks, the relationship between HRvPace can be flushed out and graphically represented with a logarithmic curve of best fit. The trend downwards of the sets of lines, shows increasing fitness. As one becomes fitter, they can maintain a faster pace at the same relative HR. All of this data is from Spring 2017. As you've read, I've gone through a period where I hadn't run in 19 weeks. My HRvPace data since my return (based on a small 10 run sample set), suggests my relationship is most similar to the 2/4/17-2/17/17 line (Black). My HR on my most recent run was 140 for a 8:31 min/mile average. I've changed locations for my runs, but the elevation gain on average is similar (about 30-40 feet per mile gain). So after 19 weeks off, my fitness has fallen quite a bit. For comparison, when I was at my peak in July 2018 right before my ankle injury, my HRvPace data would have probably been around the last orange line. An 8:31 min/mile now at 140 was a 127 then (or a 13 bpm difference). So it's reflective of the fitness loss between then and now.

With that being said, there is one reason my above example falls apart compared to your current experience. The effort at which it takes me to currently run an 8:31 min/mile is not the same effort that it took me to run an 8:31 min/mile back then. It's harder for me. And I know I've lost fitness since then. I've done a few effort tests in my few runs and can agree with my current assessed fitness based on the HR data. So where my effort is not equal, you claim the effort is equal but the HR is off by 20 bpm. And that's where I'd go back to the original. It would seem to be a possible medication or variance in device. That's by no means a conclusive answer, but an initial assessment of the situation.

At the end of the day, I wouldn't necessarily worry about it. I use effort as my gold standard for training. But not everyone has a honed in gauge on their own effort. So my back-up is using pace from a recent race to set up goal pace zones for types of runs. With the understanding that those pace zones can be altered by T+D and elevation. So if you reasonably believe that you could run a similar mile PR or 5k PR as to last year, then I would continue to train at similar paces if it feels like a similar effort. This is because I view HR data as a secondary measure. But if you're uneasy about it (as your original post would indicate), then I absolutely won't discourage you from talking with your doctor about it because they're the expert on medicine/physiology. I'm more of a science/data type person.
 
Wow! Thanks for the great reply! I knew you'd have some good input.

My wife also has a fitbit ionic. I think I will wear hers for a couple of runs and see if the data is similar.

I'm not on any meds, thank God! I'm healthy as a horse, minus the new hardware in the back.

I really try to base my runs on how I feel when I'm done and had I not started reminiscing over how far I've come since surgery, I might likely have never noticed the big difference.

One thing I failed to mention is that I've put on about 8 lbs since this time last year. Most of it in the form of muscle since my body fat% has actually gone down. Could a few extra lbs account for this big difference? Perhaps?

Going forward I think I'll do a few runs with the wife's fitbit on and see how the data compares. If both units read the same, it might be time to go in for a check up.

Thanks again @DopeyBadger !! You are a great help to a lot of folks on here!!
 
One thing I failed to mention is that I've put on about 8 lbs since this time last year. Most of it in the form of muscle since my body fat% has actually gone down. Could a few extra lbs account for this big difference? Perhaps?

That can be a contributing factor, but wouldn't explain effort = similar pace whereas pace does not equal similar HR. But the VO2max value is partially attributed to body weight. Absolute VO2max in liters/min removes body weight from the calculation. As I'll posit on my recap in my own journal this weekend, I'm up 20 pounds right now and running the calcs for VO2max, HR, pace, body weight, etc. shows that my Absolute VO2max is actually the same now 3.7 liters/min as it was at my peak (the big difference is 176 vs 157). But that weight can be partially good and thus makes me overall healthier and potentially (?) better able to stay injury free and possibly sustain pace better over long durations because of better muscle mass (?). Time will tell. But in your case, if effort = similar pace it's hard to see how HR is going to be +20 bpm if all else remains equal.
 
That can be a contributing factor, but wouldn't explain effort = similar pace whereas pace does not equal similar HR. But the VO2max value is partially attributed to body weight. Absolute VO2max in liters/min removes body weight from the calculation. As I'll posit on my recap in my own journal this weekend, I'm up 20 pounds right now and running the calcs for VO2max, HR, pace, body weight, etc. shows that my Absolute VO2max is actually the same now 3.7 liters/min as it was at my peak (the big difference is 176 vs 157). But that weight can be partially good and thus makes me overall healthier and potentially (?) better able to stay injury free and possibly sustain pace better over long durations because of better muscle mass (?). Time will tell. But in your case, if effort = similar pace it's hard to see how HR is going to be +20 bpm if all else remains equal.

A little more info as I look more at my stats from last year and try to figure this out. Last year I had a different fitbit and it only recorded my heart rate over a time that it perceived me to be exercising. So, I was using map my run to record my distance, time and pace. And I think I may have come across at least a partial explanation for the discrepancy in the heart rate numbers.

The fitbit would start recording during my warm up walks, usually about 5 min and then cool down walks anywhere between 5 and 10 min after I had actually finished my runs. I believe this may have pulled down the average for that exercise period as my walking heart rate was much lower than my running heart rate. My new fitbit only records my runs, when I tell it to start recording or will automatically start if it senses exercise such as walking. Thus, today's data only includes actual running time and not any of the warm up/ cool down walks.

Sunday's run, I wore my wife's fitbit and got very similar heart rate data. So, I'm going to go under the assumption that it is accurate or at least consistent.

Next question? Should I be running slower?! Should I try to keep my heart rate down around 143 (85% of my max HR)? If I continue to run with my heart rate higher than that, am I going to burn out over the course of the next 9 months of training?

One more next question? How do you calculate your V02? I've read a little bit about it and it sounds like you have to have it done at a lab? Is that the only way?

Sunday's run

fitbit stats

Total distance 5.02 miles
Total time 56:17

mile 1- 11:05
mile 2- 11:08
mile 3- 11:15
mile 4- 11:14
mile 5- 11:18

Avg pace 11:12
Avg heart rate 152

These longer runs are great for clearing my head!! I complain a lot about the Seattle area weather and I just wanted to say that today was almost a perfect run day!!! Sunny and 59 when I finally got out to run!! This concludes week 3 of my half marathon training. This coming week will be runs of 4,4 & 6, adding a little more distance. With some cross training thrown into the mix.

Slowed my pace and heart rate declined again. These slower paces are better for my heart rate and I feel really good at the end of the runs. I'm guessing I'd have to drop down to 12 min miles or so to get my heart rate into the 143 range..... Any opinions on going slower to get better cardio health or do you guys just run at whatever is comfortable and heart rate is secondary?

Hope everyone has a killer week!!
 
A little more info as I look more at my stats from last year and try to figure this out. Last year I had a different fitbit and it only recorded my heart rate over a time that it perceived me to be exercising. So, I was using map my run to record my distance, time and pace. And I think I may have come across at least a partial explanation for the discrepancy in the heart rate numbers.

The fitbit would start recording during my warm up walks, usually about 5 min and then cool down walks anywhere between 5 and 10 min after I had actually finished my runs. I believe this may have pulled down the average for that exercise period as my walking heart rate was much lower than my running heart rate. My new fitbit only records my runs, when I tell it to start recording or will automatically start if it senses exercise such as walking. Thus, today's data only includes actual running time and not any of the warm up/ cool down walks.

Sunday's run, I wore my wife's fitbit and got very similar heart rate data. So, I'm going to go under the assumption that it is accurate or at least consistent.

Sounds like a very reasonable explanation.

Next question? Should I be running slower?! Should I try to keep my heart rate down around 143 (85% of my max HR)? If I continue to run with my heart rate higher than that, am I going to burn out over the course of the next 9 months of training?

From personal experience, and from working with others, I would say a normal HR for an easy run is usually around 53-67% HRR (heart rate reserve). An example chart (but the % would hold).

Screen Shot 2019-03-18 at 3.27.57 PM.png

I like HRR better than HRmax alone because HRR takes into account your restingHR. Just like maxHR can fluctuate from one person to another, so can restingHR. Thus, it is useful to not only know the top end range, but the bottom end. Then using the HRR calculation:

HRR = HRmax - HRrest

Exercise HR = % of target intensity (HRmax – HRrest) + HRrest

For example: Target intensity 70 % HRR for a person with HRmax 201 bpm and
HRrest 50 bpm

Exercise HR= 70% (201-50=151) + 50
Exercise HR=155 bpm

https://support.polar.com/us-en/support/Heart_Rate_Reserve__HRR

If I were to calculate my 85% HRmax, then it would be about 150 bpm. For me, that's about marathon tempo (or aerobic threshold). For me personally, on a low mileage training regimen, that could be sustainable, but may not elicit all the benefits/recovery/adaptation of running slower. So you could probably do it, but you may be missing out on some adaptation.

But that assumes your HRmax is correct. Did you use 220-age? Because that's a faulty calculation with a huge standard deviation. It's an average, but the deviation from the average is so large it renders the calculation useless for most people. You are stating your HRmax is 168. Have you never seen a HR value higher than that ever?

Again, I use HR as a secondary measure though and would suggest setting up training zones based on either a mile test or recent race result. That'll likely be more beneficial for the purposes of determining a training regimen.

One more next question? How do you calculate your V02? I've read a little bit about it and it sounds like you have to have it done at a lab? Is that the only way?

A real VO2max is done in the lab. But it's really just a VO2peak in a lab. Because it's what you did on that day. Which may or may not be your actual max. It's why it's nice to see, but within a few days/weeks could become irrelevant and could change. VO2peak changes based on conditions, fitness, training adaptations, etc.

A VO2max estimation can be done with a calculation based on race results. It's an estimation based on a look-up table that says, "If you can do performance X, then your VO2max is likely close to Y." It's a general value and not specifically correct. Although there is a good correlation between VO2max and race performances (but not an end all be all for sure). I do know the calculation, but I can't sure it since it is proprietary to Daniels. You can get an estimation using this method on his website though: https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/

Any opinions on going slower to get better cardio health or do you guys just run at whatever is comfortable and heart rate is secondary?

For me, I line up training paces via recent race performance (or a mile test). Almost always, my HR will align in the areas I expect them to based on the training paces.
 

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