What do you consider a lot? Student debt?

[barkley]

Chiming in again! I just checked the price of the instate school my son graduated from, (UNH) it was 31,528 for the 2015-16 year. Easy to add up big loans with the high cost. I think some parts of the country are not as pricey, but here in the northeast that is the standard rate.

the public university dd graduated from this year shows the 2019/2020 yearly coa at $23004 BUT almost 15K of that is for living expenses. by opting not to live in the dorms beyond any required period of time (after dd started they began to require freshman to live on campus-we avoided that thankfully) a student can save a tremendous amount. we've got college apartments that cater to the students-they can catch a bus or shuttle that drops them off in front of the university buildings so they have a shorter walk than the dorm students (and they can leave their cars at their no charge for parking apartments whereas the dorm kids pay hefty parking fees each year just to leave their cars parked on campus).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The shame of all this is that once the government got involved with student loans, not only did the cost of college skyrocket but it also fueled the start of employers requiring a college degree for jobs that in the past didn't require more than a high school education and some on the job training. I also find it ridiculous that our 18 year olds are considered adults for some things (voting, contracts, etc.) but when it comes to college loans the parents' income and resources have to be considered. Imagine how things would be different if loans were only provided based on what a student might earn after graduation. Perhaps college costs would not have risen so dramatically or they might not have introduced so many marginally useful courses and majors (compared to future earning potential). Perhaps their would have been more work-study programs that gave students real life experience while they were learning. Perhaps there would have been less spending on fancy student lounges, fitness centers and dorms and more money on full-time professors rather than part-time adjuncts.

I believe every student should have at least some responsibility for the cost of their college education, some "skin in the game". I think this helps them better value their education.

At least a main reason state colleges in my state have risen their tuition costs in the last 8 or so years is because the state (under the same governor) was cutting their budget severely enough so they had to make it up somewhere (that and eliminating jobs as well as buying out some people for early retirement).

The person who will now be our governor (edited: corrected spelling) has said one of her goals is to help the costs get lower but we'll see on that (I'm not holding my breath).

 

[soccerdad72]

Chiming in again! I just checked the price of the instate school my son graduated from, (UNH) it was 31,528 for the 2015-16 year. Easy to add up big loans with the high cost. I think some parts of the country are not as pricey, but here in the northeast that is the standard rate.

I don't think it's just the northeast - average cost (including fees) for an Ohio public school is right around $30,000 (with room and board).

 

[LSUmiss]

The shame of all this is that once the government got involved with student loans, not only did the cost of college skyrocket but it also fueled the start of employers requiring a college degree for jobs that in the past didn't require more than a high school education and some on the job training. I also find it ridiculous that our 18 year olds are considered adults for some things (voting, contracts, etc.) but when it comes to college loans the parents' income and resources have to be considered. Imagine how things would be different if loans were only provided based on what a student might earn after graduation. Perhaps college costs would not have risen so dramatically or they might not have introduced so many marginally useful courses and majors (compared to future earning potential). Perhaps their would have been more work-study programs that gave students real life experience while they were learning. Perhaps there would have been less spending on fancy student lounges, fitness centers and dorms and more money on full-time professors rather than part-time adjuncts.

I believe every student should have at least some responsibility for the cost of their college education, some "skin in the game". I think this helps them better value their education.

I agree about employers requiring college degrees. A BA/BS is basically equivalent to what a high school diploma used to be for employers.

 

[LSUmiss]

At least a main reason state colleges in my state have risen their tuition costs in the last 8 or so years is because the state (under the same governor) was cutting their budget severely enough so they had to make it up somewhere (that and eliminating jobs as well as buying out some people for early retirement).

The person who will now be our governor (edited: corrected spelling) has said one of her goals is to help the costs get lower but we'll see on that (I'm not holding my breath).

Yep here too! We have had a new governor for the past 3 years, but the damage done by the last one for 8 years has been long-lasting. Hopefully your state fares better.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Chiming in again! I just checked the price of the instate school my son graduated from, (UNH) it was 31,528 for the 2015-16 year. Easy to add up big loans with the high cost. I think some parts of the country are not as pricey, but here in the northeast that is the standard rate.

That is with room and board on campus and other state schools, like Plymouth State and Keene, come in around 8-10 thousand less (and all of the cost difference is tuition, so, working for housing in exchange for room and board, or living at home or in less expensive housing off campus after frehsman year can really bring that down). Granite State'S COA including room and board is under 15,000 this year. So the cost could be cut in HALF by going to a lesser named, but still good,, in state pubic school

I just point that out becuase I often see that in Colorado, where my oldest attends school---people do not realize there is a huge tuition difference between even the state schools---tuition for CU Boulder is FAR more than UNC Greeley, for example. "state school" in and of itself does not mean "best deal"

 

[kdonnel]

$90,000 in loans for three years of tuition at a public university (you paid one year and you said they work to pay their food and rent). Tuition can’t be 30k a year can it?
What’s the monthly payment for 90k in loans?
Totally agree about getting a degree that will get you a job!

Colleges publish a cost of attendance.

Here is the one for the school my daughter is currently attending:
https://financialaid.kennesaw.edu/student-resources/cost-of-attendance.php

At least in Georgia, public colleges all have very similar cost of attendances. It is the room and board that are the huge expenses.

 

[mjkacmom]

the public university dd graduated from this year shows the 2019/2020 yearly coa at $23004 BUT almost 15K of that is for living expenses. by opting not to live in the dorms beyond any required period of time (after dd started they began to require freshman to live on campus-we avoided that thankfully) a student can save a tremendous amount. we've got college apartments that cater to the students-they can catch a bus or shuttle that drops them off in front of the university buildings so they have a shorter walk than the dorm students (and they can leave their cars at their no charge for parking apartments whereas the dorm kids pay hefty parking fees each year just to leave their cars parked on campus).

Well, tuition and fees are just over $14,000 at dd’s college, she spent $6000 on rent (for a closet sized room with a lot of roommates), had to buy a parking pass, pay for food ($2000?), she’s probably at $23,000 off campus.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yep here too! We have had a new governor for the past 3 years, but the damage done by the last one for 8 years has been long-lasting. Hopefully your state fares better.

I hope so too!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

The shame of all this is that once the government got involved with student loans, not only did the cost of college skyrocket but it also fueled the start of employers requiring a college degree for jobs that in the past didn't require more than a high school education and some on the job training. I also find it ridiculous that our 18 year olds are considered adults for some things (voting, contracts, etc.) but when it comes to college loans the parents' income and resources have to be considered. Imagine how things would be different if loans were only provided based on what a student might earn after graduation. Perhaps college costs would not have risen so dramatically or they might not have introduced so many marginally useful courses and majors (compared to future earning potential). Perhaps their would have been more work-study programs that gave students real life experience while they were learning. Perhaps there would have been less spending on fancy student lounges, fitness centers and dorms and more money on full-time professors rather than part-time adjuncts.

I believe every student should have at least some responsibility for the cost of their college education, some "skin in the game". I think this helps them better value their education.

I read this in the Boston Globe this week:

In part:

Simmons University may be dwarfed by Harvard, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Northeastern when it comes to size and name recognition. But it has most Boston-area higher education institutions beat on at least one measure: its president’s compensation package.

Simmons president Helen Drinan ranked among the highest-paid private college presidents nationwide, according to an annual survey released Sunday by the Chronicle of Higher Education.

Drinan earned $1.7 million in 2016, ranking her 13th among private college presidents in compensation. Her pay package put her in an elite group of top earners that included the presidents of Northwestern University and the University of Chicago, according to the survey, based on the most recent federal tax filings.

Longtime Columbia University president Lee C. Bollinger and Amy Gutmann, president of the University of Pennsylvania, remain the best compensated leaders of private institutions in the nation. Bollinger made $4 million in 2016. Gutmann followed, earning $3.2 million. (They were technically ranked No. 2 and No. 3. Kenneth W. Starr was the top-paid president in 2016 due to his departure agreement with Baylor University.)

Meanwhile, the presidents of Harvard and MIT in 2016, Drew Faust and L. Rafael Reif, earned about $1.1 million each in salary and benefits, putting their compensation at the bottom of the top 50 earners.

Northeastern president Joseph Aoun received $1.3 million in compensation.

The Chronicle’s annual survey data precede the election of President Trump. But in recent years, how private colleges make and spend their money has come under increased scrutiny. Last year, Trump signed into law a tax plan that levies a charge on the universities with the largest endowments, including many of the nation’s premier institutions. (And they were not happy about it! See below.)

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...ighest-paid/qXFy6GMTqqs9tGIgRmdlAK/story.html

And from The NY Times re: endowments:

Harvard University’s endowment, the world’s largest, grew 10 percent in the most recent fiscal year to $39.2 billion

But the endowment at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, for example, posted a 13.5 percent gain, bringing it to $16.4 billion; Notre Dame’s increased 12.2 percent, to $13.1 billion; and the University of Pennsylvania’s rose 12.9 percent, to $13.8 billion.

Mr. Narvekar arrived at Harvard after running Columbia University’s endowment for 14 years. During his tenure there, the university achieved annualized gains of 10 percent for an endowment that stood at $9 billion when he left.

The generous paychecks given to the university’s money managers have made alumni and other Harvard employees angry in the past.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/28/business/harvard-endowment-gains.html

 

[HeatherC]

Have you consider that there are many many many students who could not attend college at all if it were not for student loans??

I am well aware of this. I guess my point is that there are also ways to get a college degree without burying ones self in student loans. (Pay as you go one class at a time if you need to, community college, online classes, etc..

And I still believe that if one makes the decision to sign for them, they have the responsibility to lay them back in full. Any I’m not saying student loans are bad. Like I said in my original post, my daughter will be taking them.

 

[Colleen27]

I fall somewhere in the middle of this debate, I think.

I do not feel it is productive to push someone into a career (or for them to push themselves into it) that is not a good fit for them, solely becuase it is one associated with a strong paycheck. Unhappy engineers who aren't really all that great at what they do (even if they could get the grades in school) and do not like it also find themselves out of work. And it often happens that THE in demand career is suddenly flooded with too many applicants who all decided to take the same major when they read about that career beingv THE in thing while the were 17-19 years old.

On the other hard, I am not a fan of spending a lot of money to send a kid to university for art, or history or theatre, etc without some idea of what they can do with it, beyond the unlikely making it as a Broadway actor, etc--and good discussion about it----yes, go into arts, etc, but realistically and with a decent plan B. (I mean, by all means if you have ulimited funds to finance education jsut for education'S sake--go you! But for those of us in the real world . . . )


Soooo, for example, my friends's daughter was a theatre major. She'd love to make it as an actress, but that hasn't happened. However, she made sure she got plenty of tech experience and classes and now works for a company which does the stage managing for all kinds of short term shows (lots of dance recitals, travelling acts coming in for a few weeks, etc)---they work with several small theatres in the metro area she lives in. It's not super well paid thugh is a living wage, and it is full time work that uses her degree and keeps her in the field.

Oh, I absolutely think those conversations have to happen, and that kids should be aware of what is realistically involved in making a living in one's "passion" field... but I also think there is a way to make a living in just about any field of interest if the student is willing to put the work in and be flexible about the career s/he envisions.

For example, a friend of mine from high school always wanted to major in music, a plan his parents strongly opposed until he presented them a plan that convinced them that he could make a living. He's been a HS teacher (music & math double major) and band director for almost 20 years now and couldn't be happier. But that isn't for everyone - a good friend of DD's just decided to pass up an acceptance to her "dream" art school because she feels more comfortable with the idea of choosing a practical career (which looks like it is going to be business or accounting) and doing her art for herself. She couldn't see herself doing graphic design or other "corporate" art, so she decided it was a passion that works better as a hobby.

The problem with living in areas where colleges are more expensive is the fact that if you live here, there is a good chance that you won’t be eligible for federal loans due to income, but really need them due to the high COL, which isn’t factored into the equation. Here, the only college program offered by the state is free community college for those in the top 10% of their graduating classes. That’s it, not even any state tuition reciprocity with other states.

That depends on why the college costs are high. Here, they're high because the state doesn't support higher ed like it used to and because colleges are competing on the luxury-living front, not because the overall cost of living is high. The state doesn't offer any incentive programs either - get good grades and your reward is the privilege of paying $25-30K/year for university. Our state flagship does have some pretty generous need-based programs, but for the most part public universities are only offering a handful of highly competitive (one DD looked at goes to 8 kids out of an incoming class of about 8000) merit awards and little to no additional need-based aid.

The good news is that once you get used to paying for elementary and high schools, college tuition doesn't seem quite as daunting.

My younger son's private grade school costs more than my older son's Catholic high school. And with one going to college next year and the other moving on to high school, it's just shifting around the payments to different places.

That's where we're at too. DD has mostly applied to schools that meet full need, but 2 of her 3 safeties' net price calculators put our share at just a couple thousand dollars more than we're already paying for her private high school, so it isn't nearly as painful as it would be if we weren't already used to writing those checks. This year was a bit of a hit because it is the first time we're paying tuition for all three (oldest went to public K-12), but DD moving from high school to college will mostly be a matter of shifting where the payments go.

 

[tvguy]

The shame of all this is that once the government got involved with student loans, not only did the cost of college skyrocket but it also fueled the start of employers requiring a college degree for jobs that in the past didn't require more than a high school education and some on the job training. .

On the employer part, I was surprised to find out that 3 of my recently hired co-workers have no college degree in a job that traditionally required at least a 4 year degree. With the low employment rate, and likely low wages, they apparently can't find people with degrees that will accept the jobs.

 

[fortwildernessishome]

That is with room and board on campus and other state schools, like Plymouth State and Keene, come in around 8-10 thousand less (and all of the cost difference is tuition, so, working for housing in exchange for room and board, or living at home or in less expensive housing off campus after frehsman year can really bring that down). Granite State'S COA including room and board is under 15,000 this year. So the cost could be cut in HALF by going to a lesser named, but still good,, in state pubic school

I just point that out becuase I often see that in Colorado, where my oldest attends school---people do not realize there is a huge tuition difference between even the state schools---tuition for CU Boulder is FAR more than UNC Greeley, for example. "state school" in and of itself does not mean "best deal"

Yes, you are right, tuition and room/board.

I was surprised to see you say that Keene and Plymouth are 8-10 less then UNH. In 2014 our nephew who we mostly raised began his freshmen year at Plymouth while our oldest was beginning his senior year at UNH. My husband did all of the financing paperwork, so he probably remembers yearly cost better than me, but I thought that both of their tuitions were somewhat similar. I just did a google search and Keene is 27,354-Plymouth 28,314 and UNH 31,528, so unless those are wrong the difference between those is 4 thousand and not 8-10 thousand.

I totally agree that living at home or working for housing etc. brings the cost down. We live roughly 1 1/2 hours-2 hours from each of our state universities, so commuting 3-4 hours round trip is not something we would have wanted our son and nephew to do. (our youngest lived at home while he went to community college)

Everyone is different, but we were comfortable with the expenses involved for both tuition and board. Both our son and nephew picked majors that they would be able to pay off their loans and I already wrote on this thread that our oldest paid off his 70k in loans two years after graduating.

 

[piccolopat]

On the employer part, I was surprised to find out that 3 of my recently hired co-workers have no college degree in a job that traditionally required at least a 4 year degree. With the low employment rate, and likely low wages, they apparently can't find people with degrees that will accept the jobs.

That may be true today but it hasn't been for much of the last decade. Some of the new positions that I tried to fill entailed tasks that could have been done by providing a little training to someone without a degree as long as they had a good head on their shoulders. I actually preferred training people like this over hiring someone with a degree but who couldn't get past the fact that their new company did things differently than the old one, didn't take the time to screen their written communications for spelling and grammar errors and had a hard time figuring out things for themselves even after training was provided. A person with a college degree is not, IMHO, the same as someone who is well educated. In some cases, it just means that someone had the time and the money to go to school for four more years after high school. I really hope that the low employment rate will lead to more opportunities to people that don't have the time or the means to obtain a degree but that are hungry to learn.

 

[officerjudyhopps]

The attorneys in my office have between 100,000 to 200,00+.

My undergrad was about $20k (this coming from a $55k per year school too so averaging $5k per semester isn’t bad).

My grad school right now is $10k. I should graduate with about $20-$25k total. Overall, $45k in federal loans. I just paid off all my private loans which was about $10k.

I can do a tuition assistance program though my job but the conditions of it outweigh the money. I’m up for a big promotion and almost $20k salary increase so if I get that, I might do tuition reimbursement for the spring semester. If not, I’ll just look for a new higher paying job somewhere else.

 

[disneydentist]

In fact, 80% of 2016 dental school graduates left college with over $100,000 in debt and 30% with over $300,000. According to the American Student Dental Association (ASDA), 2017 dental students graduated with an average dental school debt of $287,331—an increase from years prior.

Unreasonable by any definition of the word.

 

[J'aime Paris]

In fact, 80% of 2016 dental school graduates left college with over $100,000 in debt and 30% with over $300,000. According to the American Student Dental Association (ASDA), 2017 dental students graduated with an average dental school debt of $287,331—an increase from years prior.

Unreasonable by any definition of the word.

Those are some big numbers!

Our DD is a sophomore in college. We are paying what her merit scholarship doesn't, so she'll graduate with no debt for her 4 years.
Her undergrad major is Biomedical Sciences, and she intends to apply to dental school.

That's a reality check for sure!!!!

 

[Poohforyou]

students can take out more than $5500 a year in fed loans in their own name-$5500 is only the freshman cap. once they are past freshman year it increases to $6500 for 2nd year, then 3rd year and beyond to $7500 (this if dependent students, independent students can borrow more from the feds)-this is per the federal student loan website & our experience w/dd over the past 5 years.

a student does NOT have to accept unsub if they take the sub portion. dd would get her financial aid award letter each year and it would list scholarships, then work study award, then fed subsidized loan amounts and finally un-subsidized amount. she got to pick and choose what she would take-she opted to take next to no unsub loans b/c the 'cost of attendance' universities use for these formulas is always inflated to show what cost is if living in the overpriced dorms whereas renting a apartment alone or w/friends saved almost 30% overall costs per year so she would check the box to decline the unsub amounts.

the $23,000 figure is just for the subsidized, students can borrow IN THEIR OWN NAME/WITHOUT A CO-SIGNER more in un-subsidized fed loans (dd was awarded subsidized, un-subsidized and perkins loans none of which we had to be cosigners for).

The way my daughter's package was structured, in order to accept an additional 1 year grant we had to accept subsidized and non-subsidized Stafford loans. I don't know the details behind that and didn't invest because we were planning for her to take the Stafford loan anyway.

 

[Poohforyou]

The problem with living in areas where colleges are more expensive is the fact that if you live here, there is a good chance that you won’t be eligible for federal loans due to income, but really need them due to the high COL, which isn’t factored into the equation. Here, the only college program offered by the state is free community college for those in the top 10% of their graduating classes. That’s it, not even any state tuition reciprocity with other states.

We're in NJ as well. The difference between my daughter attending Rutgers and her dream school is about $10,000, factoring in a very generous merit scholarship. For many people that would be too big of a difference but she's an only child so the decision was pretty easy for us.