What is going on with Disney parks?

[firefly_ris]

I kind of think Disney genie might make things worse for clueless guests, unless of course it comes with the addition of the ability to pay for the hard to get stuff.

I will be majorly surprised if Genie is not monetized. Come on Disney, surprise me.

 

[serenitynow]

The slogan should be;
Tony's-
Making Olive Garden look good for 20 years.

Or “Tony’s making Fazoli’s looking good for 20 years” Tony’s will make you long for Chef Boyardee’s any day.

 

[Tink1987]

Let's open a site. Rent a UK guest dot com

Haha I would love to say we have it that much better but we really don't. A PP pointed out that the longer you stay that our 14 day ticket price evens out which is true. But our ticket prices have gone up year on year. We stayed at WL for 10 nights in December 2016 and are staying at Yacht Club for 15 nights this December and it has cost us around $2,000 more. It is not like we have gone from a moderate to deluxe, both WL and YC are deluxe hotels.

This is a hard topic. We are childless millennials (and sometimes people don't realise how much that phrase actually hurts) so our money is our own. We choose to stay at deluxe hotels, do all the extra hours events we can and buy all the merchandise. It is up to that individual family want or can do. I always say that just because somebody has money doesn't mean they have to see value in what Disney are offering. I agree with others that I am sure Disney wouldn't miss my buck even though we are AP holders at DL and have 3 Disney vacations a year spending thousands. If people want to look down on others then that is up to them and says more about them. Disney can push and push me - I choose what I spend my money on. I love Disney and won't stop spending my money there even if tickets did rise and rise. I may drop my hotel stays to a budget but wouldn't even entertain staying off site because it isn't what works for me.

 

[fatmanatee]

The Genie looks like it suggests picking a style too, Pirate or Princess. That probably helps it decide what style to lean toward, Pirate probably for adventurous thrill seeking and Princess more about pretty experiences?

It could help if it is intuitive and quickly provides useful info in real time. I'm imagining it pulls up food and experiences in the vicinity that would interest the party, while it also tries to push the guest toward whatever currently has the lowest lines to better distribute crowds.

Yeah crowd distribution is where I really see this coming into play. That doesn't necessarily mean someone who uses this will be sent to all the worst experiences. They'd account for the user's preferences and must-sees and figure out a way to make it all work while minimizing the wait times for attractions when possible. That's if they get this right, of course, which is not a given.

 

[Heather07438]

Haha I would love to say we have it that much better but we really don't. A PP pointed out that the longer you stay that our 14 day ticket price evens out which is true. But our ticket prices have gone up year on year. We stayed at WL for 10 nights in December 2016 and are staying at Yacht Club for 15 nights this December and it has cost us around $2,000 more. It is not like we have gone from a moderate to deluxe, both WL and YC are deluxe hotels.

This is a hard topic. We are childless millennials (and sometimes people don't realise how much that phrase actually hurts) so our money is our own. We choose to stay at deluxe hotels, do all the extra hours events we can and buy all the merchandise. It is up to that individual family want or can do. I always say that just because somebody has money doesn't mean they have to see value in what Disney are offering. I agree with others that I am sure Disney wouldn't miss my buck even though we are AP holders at DL and have 3 Disney vacations a year spending thousands. If people want to look down on others then that is up to them and says more about them. Disney can push and push me - I choose what I spend my money on. I love Disney and won't stop spending my money there even if tickets did rise and rise. I may drop my hotel stays to a budget but wouldn't even entertain staying off site because it isn't what works for me.

Yes! It definitely is not cheap for anybody. We get little comments from people about our WDW trips but like you, we choose to spend our money there. At home we don't spend much on entertainment/dining, the bulk of that budget goes to WDW because we enjoy that. I am still tempted to rent a UK visitor

After many mentions of UK deals, back in August I did a cost comparison based on a CBR Late April 2020 trip my family was considering. Stateside, the best offer I could find for resort/tixx/DDP for 4ppl at CBR for 14 days cost $113 per person per day. UK offer was $80, a whopping 40% less.
Could be WDW is simply rewarding UK citizens for knowing how to queue properly ;-)

ETA: Oops, Finally found the note in my trip file. I knew there was an $80 somewhere.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

We are childless millennials (and sometimes people don't realise how much that phrase actually hurts)

That's why I don't use that phrase. I don't even like using millennials either.

 

[Moliphino]

Ah so no e-mail for you when under 180 days.

To update, I did get an email today to "Start Booking Your Dining Now". So you do get an email when you book within 180 days, just not right away (4 days later for me, now at 142 days out).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

To update, I did get an email today to "Start Booking Your Dining Now". So you do get an email when you book within 180 days, just not right away (4 days later for me, now at 142 days out).

Thanks for giving an update

 

[Mome Rath]

OK, so we just got back from another trip, and I had been approached by one of the survey CM's. Just a few hours ago I got a new survey and the questions were really specific about cost and pricing of everything from merch to food to tickets (it was one of the longest surveys I've ever taken for them). They wanted to know how much we spent on the trip as a whole and how much on Disney specific things. Would I recommend Disney to others, rate it, why or why not, etc... etc... It shows they are indeed interested in what everyone is currently talking about, and I have see these surveys actually lead to changes, so it will be interesting to see if anything changes in the future.

I pointed out the insane price increases and that while I have fun there, I can't really keep recommending a trip to others if they keep the prices soaring, as most people I interact with couldn't afford to go without going into debt and I'd never recommend that.

 

[PamNC]

I'm at a semi-tipping point. I long for the days when i could get a decent AP rate at the Yacht or Beach Club - usually well under $300. I really miss my deluxe experiences. And my moderate experiences. I just can't stay at a value resort at Disney - I think they are pretty much a Motel 6 with gaudy theming. I will, however, stay at a Disney Springs resort. You get the same benefits with transportation, early booking, extra magic for a fraction of the cost. When I was married and/or "in a relationship" with someone who would go and split the trip with me, I would visit at least once a year, and usually twice. Sometimes three, although not often. Now, I'm lucky if I get a small trip (offsite or Disney Springs). I went in August for the 20 Years event and stayed 5 nights - stayed at BW Disney Springs for $69 a night on priceline. Year before I only did a long weekend - 3 nights. Offsite. it really is depressing.....I think the resort experience was a big part of the immersion for me. I could stay in a polynesian themed resort, the pacific northwest, new england seaside, the french quarter, etc... it made a difference to me. To me, the tipping point is quite clear. THE PRICES AND THE CUTS... increase prices and cut back on the experiences of live photopass photographers and entertainment. This is the first time I can say - I doubt I'll go until 2021. :-( and it pains me.

 

[maxiesmom]

I think if you have an AP you have to look at it as a park pass. And view any perks such as room discounts as added bonuses.

 

[dlavender]

I'm at a semi-tipping point. I long for the days when i could get a decent AP rate at the Yacht or Beach Club - usually well under $300. I really miss my deluxe experiences. And my moderate experiences. I just can't stay at a value resort at Disney - I think they are pretty much a Motel 6 with gaudy theming. I will, however, stay at a Disney Springs resort. You get the same benefits with transportation, early booking, extra magic for a fraction of the cost. When I was married and/or "in a relationship" with someone who would go and split the trip with me, I would visit at least once a year, and usually twice. Sometimes three, although not often. Now, I'm lucky if I get a small trip (offsite or Disney Springs). I went in August for the 20 Years event and stayed 5 nights - stayed at BW Disney Springs for $69 a night on priceline. Year before I only did a long weekend - 3 nights. Offsite. it really is depressing.....I think the resort experience was a big part of the immersion for me. I could stay in a polynesian themed resort, the pacific northwest, new england seaside, the french quarter, etc... it made a difference to me. To me, the tipping point is quite clear. THE PRICES AND THE CUTS... increase prices and cut back on the experiences of live photopass photographers and entertainment. This is the first time I can say - I doubt I'll go until 2021. :-( and it pains me.

I agree 100%.

We used to go (just 5 years ago) and get YC sub $300/night. The experience you get at that price point was well worth it. We still go and stay offsite, but I get what you are saying. Paying $220/night even to stay at POR just does not have the same value or experience. We stay offsite, usually at an Embassy (shout out to the Kissimmee south location). We enjoy it, but it is not the same experience. We've had to adjust, and after a while, all the adjusting to keep it in a reasonable financial realm does change the experience you used to enjoy.

 

[Alynw]

I agree 100%.

We used to go (just 5 years ago) and get YC sub $300/night. The experience you get at that price point was well worth it. We still go and stay offsite, but I get what you are saying. Paying $220/night even to stay at POR just does not have the same value or experience. We stay offsite, usually at an Embassy (shout out to the Kissimmee south location). We enjoy it, but it is not the same experience. We've had to adjust, and after a while, all the adjusting to keep it in a reasonable financial realm does change the experience you used to enjoy.

I'm really shocked on how Disney has handled the price increases. I dont understand why they decided to increase their prices so drastically before the majority of their new attractions were even started, let alone finished. I'm curious to this strategy. Honestly, I could see small increases as new things opened up over time and I believe if Disney would've used this approach that more people would've been more accepting of the price increases. Not only that, I also think attendance would've also increased as people anticipate price increases and try to beat the increase. The fact that they increased their overall prices by 30% and really nothing besides TSL and half of SWGE open just doesn't make sense. It's not like they increased prices but then everything would soon be open shortly after, were talking years before they get all the new major attractions open. Open TSL and do a 5% increase , open half of GE do 5% increase, open the rest of GE do another 5% and people at least feel like their getting something for their money. But to upcharge everyone today for what is coming years later has definitely had a negative impact. I'm curious to see what specials Disney offers after the new year, we've already seen the $79 midday "damage control" ticket this fall.

 

[ChrisM]

Disney doesn't necessarily care about butts through turnstiles; they care about profits. If they can increase profits and lower attendance, that's a win for them. They can decrease staffing (and make other cuts around the margin due to lower attendance) and squeeze out even more profit.

They have absolutely been pursuing a perceived "up-market" strategy; well, at least in terms of price if not necessarily in terms of product. I'm really curious to see what their quarterly numbers look like over the next year.

Responding to myself after taking a brief look at the just-released Q4 2019 earnings report:

The "Parks, Experiences and Products" category (while admittedly broad) operating income was up 17% quarter-over-quarter and 11% year-over-year.

As hard as this may be to swallow, it appears the up-charge strategy is paying off handsomely.

 

[Brianstl]

Responding to myself after taking a brief look at the just-released Q4 2019 earnings report:

The "Parks, Experiences and Products" category (while admittedly broad) operating income was up 17% quarter-over-quarter and 11% year-over-year.

As hard as this may be to swallow, it appears the up-charge strategy is paying off handsomely.

I haven’t seen a complete breakdown of the numbers, but from the report and the conference call it sounds like income was down at WDW. They are blaming Dorian and people delaying trips for Rise.

The drivers on income growth in the category were Disneyland, Disneyland Paris and sales at Riviera.

 

[fatmanatee]

I haven’t seen a complete breakdown of the numbers, but from the report and the conference call it sounds like income was down at WDW. They are blaming Dorian and people delaying trips for Rise.

The drivers on income growth in the category were Disneyland, Disneyland Paris and sales at Riviera.

Digging back and looks like there was one day where they were fully closed, an early closing, late opening, and I remember a lot of concern about this as the hurricane approached so I think attendance was down significantly in those days too (IIRC someone posted here about how empty it was when they visited). I think the excuse is valid, even if there may have been other issues.

I'm not really sure how many people would be delaying trips just for Rise but they do have data on reservations for 2020 and it sounds like those are up year over year.

 

[ChrisM]

I haven’t seen a complete breakdown of the numbers, but from the report and the conference call it sounds like income was down at WDW. They are blaming Dorian and people delaying trips for Rise.

The drivers on income growth in the category were Disneyland, Disneyland Paris and sales at Riviera.

Yes, hard to get an accurate picture without detailed breakdowns of the numbers, but the language in the report gives us a few clues.

"Higher operating results at Parks, Experiences and Products was due to growth at the domestic theme parks and resorts and merchandise licensing. The increase at our domestic parks and resorts was due to higher guest spending, partially offset by labor and other cost inflation."

"Growth at Disneyland Resort was primarily due to higher guest spending, partially offset by expenses associated with Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge, which opened on May 31, and, to a lesser extent, lower attendance."

"Guest spending growth was primarily due to increases in average ticket prices and higher food, beverage and merchandise spending."

"Results at Walt Disney World Resort were comparable to the prior-year quarter, despite the adverse impact of Hurricane Dorian in the current quarter. Increases in guest spending and, to a lesser extent, occupied room nights and attendance were offset by higher costs. Higher costs were driven by costs associated with Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge, which opened on August 29, and cost inflation. Guest spending growth was primarily due to increased food, beverage and merchandise spending and higher average ticket prices."

The picture this paints (fully acknowledging that even in financial disclosures the ability to spin the story still exists) is lower attendance, but higher prices and possibly higher resort occupancy have helped to drive profits.

 

[Brianstl]

Digging back and looks like there was one day where they were fully closed, an early closing, late opening, and I remember a lot of concern about this as the hurricane approached so I think attendance was down significantly in those days too (IIRC someone posted here about how empty it was when they visited). I think the excuse is valid, even if there may have been other issues.

I'm not really sure how many people would be delaying trips just for Rise but they do have data on reservations for 2020 and it sounds like those are up year over year.

They claimed that Irma cost them $100 million in the fourth quarter last year. So both quarters being compared to each other had a hurricane that impacted business.

 

[Brianstl]

Yes, hard to get an accurate picture without detailed breakdowns of the numbers, but the language in the report gives us a few clues.

"Higher operating results at Parks, Experiences and Products was due to growth at the domestic theme parks and resorts and merchandise licensing. The increase at our domestic parks and resorts was due to higher guest spending, partially offset by labor and other cost inflation."

"Growth at Disneyland Resort was primarily due to higher guest spending, partially offset by expenses associated with Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge, which opened on May 31, and, to a lesser extent, lower attendance."

"Guest spending growth was primarily due to increases in average ticket prices and higher food, beverage and merchandise spending."

"Results at Walt Disney World Resort were comparable to the prior-year quarter, despite the adverse impact of Hurricane Dorian in the current quarter. Increases in guest spending and, to a lesser extent, occupied room nights and attendance were offset by higher costs. Higher costs were driven by costs associated with Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge, which opened on August 29, and cost inflation. Guest spending growth was primarily due to increased food, beverage and merchandise spending and higher average ticket prices."

The picture this paints (fully acknowledging that even in financial disclosures the ability to spin the story still exists) is lower attendance, but higher prices and possibly higher resort occupancy have helped to drive profits.

"Per room spending at our domestic hotels was up 2%, and occupancy of 85% with comparable to the fourth quarter last year."

The 85% number matches the number from 2018. The spending growth is inline with inflation during the same 12 month period.

 

[Brianstl]

Comparable and deferred appear to be the buzzwords this year for domestic parks and resorts.