What is going on with Disney parks?

[Brianstl]

Actually According to the 2018 annual report occupancy was 88% at domestic resorts. So occupancy was actually down in 2019 at domestic resorts.

 

[rteetz]

Actually According to the 2018 annual report occupancy was 88% at domestic resorts. So occupancy was actually down in 2019 at domestic resorts.

85% is comparable and I’m sure disney would include the hurricane scare as part of that.

 

[Brianstl]

85% is comparable and I’m sure disney would include the hurricane scare as part of that.

And 2018 had Irma.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And 2018 had Irma.

Irma was Sep 2017

 

[Brianstl]

Irma was Sep 2017

My mistake. You are correct.

Occupancy was at 88% in 2017, too.

 

[grossmansr]

I hope people have had enough already. I know I have. I HATE the new ticket pricing and the parking fees and how it feels compared to the "old" days. We cancelled our trip last year and after the trip 2 years ago I'll be surprised if I can ever get my husband to go back. This year I'm taking my two youngest, but we're only going to the parks for 2 days. And it makes me SO SAD because in spite of everything I love Disney and I miss it. I just wish they would stop with the insane money grab.

 

[KarenP64]

And this seems to be an everyday occurrence now: https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/08/us/disney-employees-child-porn-sting/index.html
So, these are the ones who are forcing their way in to make the "security checks" & invading our privacy. Disgusting!

 

[DisFanDad]

85% is comparable and I’m sure disney would include the hurricane scare as part of that.

I'd actually disagree.

Using touring plans figure of 36000 Disney world On site rooms.

88% occupancy is 11,563,000 occupied rooms for the year

85% occupancy is 11,169,000 occupied rooms for the year

That's a 400 000 room drop off I mean at an avg of $250/night that's $100 million lost, plus guest spending. It's 11 full night's of no occupancy added, the hurricane scare just can't explain that at all.

 

[Minniesgal]

I think the Yachtsman is good, I don’t know if I would call it outstanding.

Agree in fact I'd say it is ok not outstanding.

 

[disneygirlsng]

I hope people have had enough already. I know I have. I HATE the new ticket pricing and the parking fees and how it feels compared to the "old" days. We cancelled our trip last year and after the trip 2 years ago I'll be surprised if I can ever get my husband to go back. This year I'm taking my two youngest, but we're only going to the parks for 2 days. And it makes me SO SAD because in spite of everything I love Disney and I miss it. I just wish they would stop with the insane money grab.

Yea, I'm still far, far, far from that. Not even in my thoughts. Especially after my trip last week, loving Disney now more than ever!!

 

[onetoescape]

Back from last 2 weeks in Disney and it is getting worse but in some ways, it's as good as its always been.

Cons

Penny pinching is really bad.
Crowds are ridiculous.
Pricing is awful (weakened £ doesn't help).
The people in the parks rude, no manners.
Cast Member quality starting to decline.

Pros

The magic is still there.
The good cast members are outstanding.
Always something to do.
Still the best overall Theme park Experience.

There is a lot going on with Disney and lots of reasons why some of the magic is starting to fade. For me, the biggest factor comes down to crowds. You limit the crowds, add high volume rides and attractions, another land or park this fixes a lot of the issues. The footpaths are just chockablock with people going from one place to another. The second factor is Disney has got greedy. Disney had a premium for a reason before which while I didnt like paying I understood why there was one. Disney now is about trying to get people to stay at Disney 24/7 and not move outside the Disney bubble. Car park fees are there to get you to stay onsite and just spend as much money there as possible. Yes, its a business but they are being too aggressive about it. Its a tricky balance to maintain and at the moment they have tipping into too aggressive. The next issue is as others have said is they are now paying the price of not investing in their parks for too long and are playing catchup. The amount of work over the last number of years is also taking a shine off. Hopefully they will learn from the mess they are in now and Universal Studios keeps them honest.

Here's the kicker. For me if you asked me last year after we had been had Disney lost its way and had reached a tipping point I would have said yes. After this year I can actually see progress. I have seen the start of the building work I missed Toy Story opening last year (TBH I hate the Toy Story area to cramped and reminds me of Dinoland). I walked around Star Wars and it was brilliant. The interactions I had with cast Members was brilliant for the most part. So many people miss out by not interacting with Cast Members. I had brilliant interactions with some of the characters. With the "normal" non suited ones just by speaking to them normally and / or winding them up (playfully) was great. We got parking for free, fast passes etc etc by just treating them as human beings. These wee touches add so much to the experience.

Overall for me the tipping point is still in sight but has backed off somewhat. The issues with crowds, pricing etc still remain but if they continue to invest and still make reasons to visit within a good budget I will. next years trip is already booked!

 

[Alynw]

I hope people have had enough already. I know I have. I HATE the new ticket pricing and the parking fees and how it feels compared to the "old" days. We cancelled our trip last year and after the trip 2 years ago I'll be surprised if I can ever get my husband to go back. This year I'm taking my two youngest, but we're only going to the parks for 2 days. And it makes me SO SAD because in spite of everything I love Disney and I miss it. I just wish they would stop with the insane money grab.

I already have tickets for this years trip but after talking to the wife, we've decided that this year will also be our last year at WDW. My youngest daughter will be 15 in January and with all the price increases from tickets down to a soft drink, it's just not smart spending for us anymore. It's more than just the money, I never really noticed but my wife was like, do u realize how much time u spend on planning and staring at the mde app, always looking at wait times, trying to get ADR's, trying to get fp and then going back every day trying to modify looking for the hard to get rides, the frustration of the entire very long drawn out planning process, add in the massive crowds and then top it off with such really high price increases. I didn't really know how bad it was til I just decided to check and I couldn't believe it, it really is insane. Keep in mind I always go at xmas every year so I'm comparing xmas time prices, in 2016 I bought 5 day base tickets for 3 for a total cost of $1,029.77 and I just pulled up the same exact tickets and the current price for xmas 2019 5 day base is $1,757.07. Folks that is insane, there is no way Disney can justify this. Not the best with math but that is what, like 72% price increase in 3 years. When Disney spends millions and builds new lands, that is a long term investment and part of staying in business and yea, would justify a 10% increase but this is just too much. It makes me mad cause I do love Disney but I just cant see spending this kind of money on a yearly basis. I will definitely go back in about 3-4 years just to check out all the new stuff but annual wdw vacation are done after this year.

 

[TeacupsForever]

It's more than just the money, I never really noticed but my wife was like, do u realize how much time u spend on planning and staring at the mde app, always looking at wait times, trying to get ADR's, trying to get fp and then going back every day trying to modify looking for the hard to get rides, the frustration of the entire very long drawn out planning process, add in the massive crowds and then top it off with such really high price increases.

This is what really changed the experience for me. I grew up going every few years as a kid. My last "kid" trip was for my 19th birthday in 2009. By the time I came back as an adult for a trip with my husband in 2017, I was so excited to show him the magic . . . only to find that a lot of it was gone. We went in January, and the crowds were more than I remembered seeing during childhood trips in June and December. We had to plan so much more than we wanted to for dining, FP, etc.

My mom and I took my oldest two kids (2 and 4 at the time) this last May, and that's when it really hit home for me. I could either spend time enjoying the parks, watching my kids experience the magic, or I could be on MDE all day searching for FP and mobile ordering our next meal. Some of that comes down to me making a choice to be present and put the phone away, but it's hard when you've spent buckets of money and want to experience what you can with as few lines as possible. It feels like Disney is forcing you to keep your head in technology, both while you're there and when you're planning your trip. I don't mind doing a bit of prep work (actually, I think it's fun), but it's nearly impossible to plan for kids that age 60 days in advance.

I had a hard time staying present with my family on this last trip, and that's where a lot of the magic was lost. I'm all nostalgic for simpler times, I guess. I still love Disney and want to share the magic with my kids as they grow up, but it just doesn't feel like the same vacations I remember.

 

[tlmadden73]

This is what really changed the experience for me. I grew up going every few years as a kid. My last "kid" trip was for my 19th birthday in 2009. By the time I came back as an adult for a trip with my husband in 2017, I was so excited to show him the magic . . . only to find that a lot of it was gone. We went in January, and the crowds were more than I remembered seeing during childhood trips in June and December. We had to plan so much more than we wanted to for dining, FP, etc.

My mom and I took my oldest two kids (2 and 4 at the time) this last May, and that's when it really hit home for me. I could either spend time enjoying the parks, watching my kids experience the magic, or I could be on MDE all day searching for FP and mobile ordering our next meal. Some of that comes down to me making a choice to be present and put the phone away, but it's hard when you've spent buckets of money and want to experience what you can with as few lines as possible. It feels like Disney is forcing you to keep your head in technology, both while you're there and when you're planning your trip. I don't mind doing a bit of prep work (actually, I think it's fun), but it's nearly impossible to plan for kids that age 60 days in advance.

I had a hard time staying present with my family on this last trip, and that's where a lot of the magic was lost. I'm all nostalgic for simpler times, I guess. I still love Disney and want to share the magic with my kids as they grow up, but it just doesn't feel like the same vacations I remember.

You can do both .... to me having little kids (that you are sorta FORCED to keep an eye on) helped keep me OUT of MDE. I would pull it out while at lunch (waiting for the slow eaters) and maybe try and grab a FP next. But really .. when going with small kids like that . .you HAVE to just live in the moment .. the scheduling just makes it stressful when dealing with kids who need an unscheduled potty break, all of sudden DO NOT want to go on that ride that you have had planned for 60 days, etc.

KNOWING that kids that young are unpredictable forced me to have a flexible plan (3 ADRs for kid-friendly rides in the early morning .. and just wide open after that - and going for 4th FPs for whatever they wanted to do next (if available) .. things you normally wouldn't "waste" a FP on .. )

But really if you spend your time on the FRONT end planning your day with FPs and ADRs, no need to be buried in your phone .. everything is set and scheduled for part of the day .. and after that .. just wing it ......

I am amazed (but not really surprised) at what the kids were entertained by that we wouldn't have experienced if we were trying to maximize FP with our heads in the phones. -- Tiki Room, Country Bears, the shooting gallery, just playing checkers, running around Tom Sawyer Island, even Aladdin's Flying Carpets .. things that don't require FPs.

The Magic is there .. we just have to FORCE ourselves to not be buried in the phones .. (which is hard with how high-tech Disney has made themselves) .. I wouldn't doubt that they will ditch paper park maps all together and force you to use the app.

 

[fatmanatee]

Interesting to see so many comments about dining reservations. No idea how to fix that situation but definitely something that it's causing so much stress for people here.

 

[Mikey15]

On my October trip, I experienced a couple things that have made me rethink my opinion on the whole FastPass+ thing. While I absolutely have enjoyed using the system to our advantage before and going for those 4th, 5th, 6th FPs (especially at DHS) to get extra RnR, ToT, and TSM rides in, I'm starting to join the camp that just thinks they should be scrapped altogether.

I had a reasonable ~50 minute wait for MFSR on a Saturday morning, less than two months after opening. The queue was interesting, the line kept moving pretty well, and I think I enjoyed things far more than if there were separate FP+ and standby lines slowing things down.

Then, there was our Magic Kingdom non-party day, on a Wednesday when there's Halloween parties on Thursday, Friday, Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, etc.. We'd done it a different year between Halloween and Christmas parties, and new to expect a crowded park, but I was really not prepared for just how bad this was. We didn't want a full day at MK since fireworks were the main goal, so we did a noon ADR at The Wave and leisurely made our way over around 1:30. We had FPs for Space, Splash, and Thunder; pretty good scores for a busy day, right? We couldn't have been more wrong. Space FP+ line was probably a 25-30 minute wait. Standby line was over 90 minutes. We weren't 100% sure we wanted to get wet on Splash, but we made our way over there anyway as every Standby line in the park was crazy long, but when we got there, the FP+ line was backed up well beyond the band-scanning area. We thought about waiting but then just decided against it and hung out at Pecos Bill's until our Thunder FP time. At least the Thunder line went smoothly. After Thunder, we headed over to the Hub over an hour early for fireworks, and it was already full. I'm still glad we did it because I enjoy HEA, but after that even though we could have waited for the rides that were still open, we were just done.

One Magic Kingdom day and we:
-spent time inside BoG
-rode Space Mountain
-shopped a little in Tomorrowland
-bailed on Splash
-hung out inside Pecos Bills
-rode Big Thunder
-stood in people-soup to watch fireworks

I'm really glad we did the party day and actually got to ride everything but Mine Train, because there's no way we could have on an HEA day. Back to what got me on this though is that while ~60% of the problem on this Wednesday was falling between Halloween party days, the other ~40% is FPs don't help wait times overall; they hurt. When an FP line is backed up to the points we saw, the system just doesn't make any sense. Because FPs have (slightly flexible but) rigid windows of time, people wait out long FP lines because "I need to use my FP darnit," rather than organically moving to a ride with a shorter wait time. In economic terms, the FP distorts the ride "market" that's served perfectly well by a first-come first-served system instead.

It was a fun experiment and there's a lot of joy in tapping that MagicBand and hearing the happy chime, but it's not the answer to the "I pay all this money to Disney just to wait in line" problem. Efficient loading systems that keep lines moving, combined with good queues to keep you interested while you wait, are where it's at. Good list: MFSR, FoP though it still takes a long time, 7DMT would be okay if not for standby getting slowed down for FPers. Bad list: Na'vi River Journey (zero queue effort plus long waits).

 

[Heather07438]

On my October trip, I experienced a couple things that have made me rethink my opinion on the whole FastPass+ thing. While I absolutely have enjoyed using the system to our advantage before and going for those 4th, 5th, 6th FPs (especially at DHS) to get extra RnR, ToT, and TSM rides in, I'm starting to join the camp that just thinks they should be scrapped altogether.

I had a reasonable ~50 minute wait for MFSR on a Saturday morning, less than two months after opening. The queue was interesting, the line kept moving pretty well, and I think I enjoyed things far more than if there were separate FP+ and standby lines slowing things down.

Then, there was our Magic Kingdom non-party day, on a Wednesday when there's Halloween parties on Thursday, Friday, Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, etc.. We'd done it a different year between Halloween and Christmas parties, and new to expect a crowded park, but I was really not prepared for just how bad this was. We didn't want a full day at MK since fireworks were the main goal, so we did a noon ADR at The Wave and leisurely made our way over around 1:30. We had FPs for Space, Splash, and Thunder; pretty good scores for a busy day, right? We couldn't have been more wrong. Space FP+ line was probably a 25-30 minute wait. Standby line was over 90 minutes. We weren't 100% sure we wanted to get wet on Splash, but we made our way over there anyway as every Standby line in the park was crazy long, but when we got there, the FP+ line was backed up well beyond the band-scanning area. We thought about waiting but then just decided against it and hung out at Pecos Bill's until our Thunder FP time. At least the Thunder line went smoothly. After Thunder, we headed over to the Hub over an hour early for fireworks, and it was already full. I'm still glad we did it because I enjoy HEA, but after that even though we could have waited for the rides that were still open, we were just done.

One Magic Kingdom day and we:
-spent time inside BoG
-rode Space Mountain
-shopped a little in Tomorrowland
-bailed on Splash
-hung out inside Pecos Bills
-rode Big Thunder
-stood in people-soup to watch fireworks

I'm really glad we did the party day and actually got to ride everything but Mine Train, because there's no way we could have on an HEA day. Back to what got me on this though is that while ~60% of the problem on this Wednesday was falling between Halloween party days, the other ~40% is FPs don't help wait times overall; they hurt. When an FP line is backed up to the points we saw, the system just doesn't make any sense. Because FPs have (slightly flexible but) rigid windows of time, people wait out long FP lines because "I need to use my FP darnit," rather than organically moving to a ride with a shorter wait time. In economic terms, the FP distorts the ride "market" that's served perfectly well by a first-come first-served system instead.

It was a fun experiment and there's a lot of joy in tapping that MagicBand and hearing the happy chime, but it's not the answer to the "I pay all this money to Disney just to wait in line" problem. Efficient loading systems that keep lines moving, combined with good queues to keep you interested while you wait, are where it's at. Good list: MFSR, FoP though it still takes a long time, 7DMT would be okay if not for standby getting slowed down for FPers. Bad list: Na'vi River Journey (zero queue effort plus long waits).

Disney can change this* by adding a few park hours. Just that 1 hour daily EEMH at MK and AK made a huge difference to park flow. Obviously the 3hr EEMH at HS really spread guests out, but the experience shows what a tremendous effect cutting or adding an hour to a park day can have on crowds/waits.

HS is open 9a-9p right after RoR opens? Need more hours than that!

*ETA: I should clarify that changing this means giving more regular park hours during party season. They did have 1 hour EMH but only having 2 days a week to see fireworks without a party ticket also puts an immense strain on MK crowds. For Wed Oct 16th, closing was 10pm. That easily should've been 11pm. It was CL10 that day because of little opportunity for a full day at MK during the week. Disney needs to fix the party season hours.

 

[dlavender]

On my October trip, I experienced a couple things that have made me rethink my opinion on the whole FastPass+ thing. While I absolutely have enjoyed using the system to our advantage before and going for those 4th, 5th, 6th FPs (especially at DHS) to get extra RnR, ToT, and TSM rides in, I'm starting to join the camp that just thinks they should be scrapped altogether.

I had a reasonable ~50 minute wait for MFSR on a Saturday morning, less than two months after opening. The queue was interesting, the line kept moving pretty well, and I think I enjoyed things far more than if there were separate FP+ and standby lines slowing things down.

Then, there was our Magic Kingdom non-party day, on a Wednesday when there's Halloween parties on Thursday, Friday, Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, etc.. We'd done it a different year between Halloween and Christmas parties, and new to expect a crowded park, but I was really not prepared for just how bad this was. We didn't want a full day at MK since fireworks were the main goal, so we did a noon ADR at The Wave and leisurely made our way over around 1:30. We had FPs for Space, Splash, and Thunder; pretty good scores for a busy day, right? We couldn't have been more wrong. Space FP+ line was probably a 25-30 minute wait. Standby line was over 90 minutes. We weren't 100% sure we wanted to get wet on Splash, but we made our way over there anyway as every Standby line in the park was crazy long, but when we got there, the FP+ line was backed up well beyond the band-scanning area. We thought about waiting but then just decided against it and hung out at Pecos Bill's until our Thunder FP time. At least the Thunder line went smoothly. After Thunder, we headed over to the Hub over an hour early for fireworks, and it was already full. I'm still glad we did it because I enjoy HEA, but after that even though we could have waited for the rides that were still open, we were just done.

One Magic Kingdom day and we:
-spent time inside BoG
-rode Space Mountain
-shopped a little in Tomorrowland
-bailed on Splash
-hung out inside Pecos Bills
-rode Big Thunder
-stood in people-soup to watch fireworks

I'm really glad we did the party day and actually got to ride everything but Mine Train, because there's no way we could have on an HEA day. Back to what got me on this though is that while ~60% of the problem on this Wednesday was falling between Halloween party days, the other ~40% is FPs don't help wait times overall; they hurt. When an FP line is backed up to the points we saw, the system just doesn't make any sense. Because FPs have (slightly flexible but) rigid windows of time, people wait out long FP lines because "I need to use my FP darnit," rather than organically moving to a ride with a shorter wait time. In economic terms, the FP distorts the ride "market" that's served perfectly well by a first-come first-served system instead.

It was a fun experiment and there's a lot of joy in tapping that MagicBand and hearing the happy chime, but it's not the answer to the "I pay all this money to Disney just to wait in line" problem. Efficient loading systems that keep lines moving, combined with good queues to keep you interested while you wait, are where it's at. Good list: MFSR, FoP though it still takes a long time, 7DMT would be okay if not for standby getting slowed down for FPers. Bad list: Na'vi River Journey (zero queue effort plus long waits).

Great post!

It's where we are with FP+ and party season as well. We don't even try to visit during party season anymore. Packing the resort full of people into 2 nights where the MK has fireworks is insane.

In regards to FP+, its changed everything. IMO, we enjoyed rides more when we had a chance to go through the queue, talk about what we were seeing, and having the chance to "get into the story" of the ride. Then riding was the pinnacle of the experience. Now, it's either: #1) have a FP, wait maybe 15 mins walking straight to the load area #2) stand in the same spot for 10 mins at a time and inch forward becoming frustrated with the fact that you haven't moved in 10 mins #3) while not moving, stare into your phone trying to get more FP's so that you don't have to stand in one spot again.

Give me two 45-60 min waits where you move through the queue vs a 15 minute walk to the load area and then a ride where you stand in one spot for 10 mins taking about 75 mins to finally make it to the load area any day!

FP+ has transitioned from a "wait is to long let's come back later" program to a pre-scheduled ride system. There's just not enough rides (even at MK) to make it work. But, I don't see it changing....

 

[Silly23]

The crowds on our last trip a few weeks ago October at MK were overwhelming and we go a few times a year for over 30 yrs, we have never witnessed so many people at MK.

The prices are going to go up and up and up for the foreseeable future..

Supply and Demand.

And the demand is getting higher from more international visitors, global economy doing better, as well as an increased local population.

 

[Wreckem]

Disney can change this* by adding a few park hours. Just that 1 hour daily EEMH at MK and AK made a huge difference to park flow. Obviously the 3hr EEMH at HS really spread guests out, but the experience shows what a tremendous effect cutting or adding an hour to a park day can have on crowds/waits.

HS is open 9a-9p right after RoR opens? Need more hours than that!

*ETA: I should clarify that changing this means giving more regular park hours during party season. They did have 1 hour EMH but only having 2 days a week to see fireworks without a party ticket also puts an immense strain on MK crowds. For Wed Oct 16th, closing was 10pm. That easily should've been 11pm. It was CL10 that day because of little opportunity for a full day at MK during the week. Disney needs to fix the party season hours.

I don’t think they have final hours for December yet. Last year Xmas and New Years weeks the hours were way longer then currently listed for multiple parks. Hopefully they extend the hours this year or it will be a bigger zoo than previous years.