Why Middle Class Can't Afford Disney

[MillauFr]

The only true necessities are food, shelter, and some sort of emotional support. Outside of that everything is something we chose to pay for or do and many of them make getting the real necessities easier.

Agreed. So many things that people think are necessities are really luxuries. TV, cell phone, internet, car, air conditioning, are all luxuries. Cut of some or all of those can really save big cash.

 

[QueenIsabella]

Another factor people forget is that different people have different expenses. If I live close to my mother and am capable of having a two income household with no daycare expenses for my two kids because my mom watches them (I wasn't that lucky), and you have to pay $2000 a month for daycare, that's a big difference. If I moved into my parents place when they downsized (like my girlfriend did) and have a tiny mortgage because they basically gave me the house, and you have a $1200 mortgage - that's a big difference. If I went to school on a scholarship and graduated with no student loans, and you took out loans to go to private school - that's a big difference. If I inherited six figures from a grandmother, and you didn't - and won't - that's a big difference. If my dad started me investing in the stock market with my babysitting money (this one is my cousin) and I graduated from college with six figures worth of investment accounts and $5k a year in dividends arriving, that's a big difference.

There is a lot of factors other than income to a person's standard of living. And most of them are things you don't tend to see. You probably don't know that your neighbor doesn't have student loans, and his wife's parents gift them $20,000 a year to cut their future inheritance taxes. And you look at them and wonder how they are getting by on their teaching jobs and going to Disney.


Even at Disney there are factors - there are people here who travel for work enough that their stay is covered by hotel points (over at the Dolphin) and they never pay for a flight because they have frequent flyer miles. Disney becomes a lot cheaper when its park tickets and food.

All very true. On the other end of the spectrum, when we lived rural, it was very commonplace for people to grow a large percentage of their food (meat and produce). They also frequently used (free) wood to heat their homes. These items wouldn't show up in their income directly, but would make their COL much less then you might see in the suburbs.

 

[tcufrog]

Air conditioning isn't a luxury in Texas. The state didn't really take off until A/c was invented. Where we live a fireplace is unnecessary but in some parts of the country it's a necessity the same way in NYC a car is a luxury but it's a necessity for us since there's no public transit. Cable is a luxury for me but a necessity for a friend who makes extra money writing TV show reviews and recaps. A cell phone is a luxury for my son who pays his cell bill but is a necessity for my dh who needs to be reached at all hours for his job. He co-owns a company that makes and sells tools for oil and gas rigs. Downtime due to a problem costs the driller thousands of dollars. Part of his service is providing 24/7 support for his tools. If you telecommute or have online schoolwork Internet is a necessity. Claiming that they are luxuries is making blanket statements that don't fit everyone or every part of the country.

 

[tvguy]

Air conditioning isn't a luxury in Texas. The state didn't really take off until A/c was invented. Where we live a fireplace is unnecessary .

My FIL lived in Vidor, had A/C, heat AND a fireplace with an insert. Summer it can get to 100, winter it can get to 25. IMHO you need both, however, an amazing number of houses in his area do NOT have a/c.

 

[dclpluto]

Agreed. So many things that people think are necessities are really luxuries. TV, cell phone, internet, car, air conditioning, are all luxuries. Cut of some or all of those can really save big cash.

Car is not a luxury. For some people in the cities maybe a luxury. Where I live you need a car.

 

[tvguy]

We were middle class when I was growing up in the 1970s. Vacation was a cabin at a lake. I was in a plane once until high school. Rich people went to Disney - not us. We did go once, when I was a Senior in high school. My parents got a deal and we stayed in a crappy hotel offsite.

At some point, things changed and the expectation became that middle class people would vacation annually and be able to afford somewhere nice. When I was growing up, Disney was - for middle class people who went at all - a once in a childhood, you saved for it thing. When we went, most of my friends had never gone.

I guess it depends on when you grew up. Disney was fairly affordable when I was a kid, first trip in 1965. In college, 1975 to 1979 two friends and I went to Disneyland for 3 days, for $100. That includes all meals, tickets, camping at the Disneyland KOA, and 800 miles round trip gasoline. But in 1976, admission AND a ticket book was $6. It wasn't until the mid 1980's when Michael Eisner took over as CEO that Disney got expensive.

 

[melanielll]

But AC is a luxury. I grew up in New Orleans - we had a window unit, but my parents never used it. Your life may be better with AC, but it is not required. Lots of people lived in Texas before electricity, and they survived. I am not going to say that they weren't miserable (and I live in Houston now, so I know the Texas heat), but no AC is not a death sentence.

 

[crisi]

e."

I guess it depends on when you grew up. Disney was fairly affordable when I was a kid, first trip in 1965. In college, 1975 to 1979 two friends and I went to Disneyland for 3 days, for $100. That includes all meals, tickets, camping at the Disneyland KOA, and 800 miles round trip gasoline. But in 1976, admission AND a ticket book was $6. It wasn't until the mid 1980's when Michael Eisner took over as CEO that Disney got expensive.

In 1972, my father made $14000 a year and had three kids. We were middle class, owned a house. On $14000 a year, $100 is expensive. Tickets HAVE gotten very expensive to Disney - but costs have also increased - insurance and legal costs have gone through the roof for anything involving rides.

 

[crisi]

But AC is a luxury. I grew up in New Orleans - we had a window unit, but my parents never used it. Your life may be better with AC, but it is not required. Lots of people lived in Texas before electricity, and they survived. I am not going to say that they weren't miserable (and I live in Houston now, so I know the Texas heat), but no AC is not a death sentence.

For some people, AC is needed. Heat stroke does kill people. But there is also a world of difference between setting your AC/Heat at 72 degrees year round, and having it at 80 when the temp is over 100 in terms of cost. We live in a part of the country where Summers can get hot, and Winters are VERY cold, and my Summer AC is at 80, my Winter heat is at 65. You wear a sweater in my house in the Winter, and in the Summer, you are most comfortable staying very hydrated in loose fitting clothes.

(For that matter, the homeless live every day without a house - you don't NEED a house)

Its very hard to judge another person's choices from the outside - and its very difficult to make absolute statements about what people need. One absolute I can make is that no one NEEDS a Disney vacation - unless you are perhaps a travel writer or travel agent - in which case it isn't a vacation.

For me, personally, I see things as far more of spectrum than just need vs. want. I need calories. I might want them in the form of Wagyu beef, but that is on the luxury end of want. Tennis shoes from the second hand store may be functional, but my feet will be a lot healthier if I actually spend a little money on shoes - however, I don't really need $300 shoes - that, again, is a luxury want. A roof over my head is a need, one in good repair without health hazzards, need. One with a bedroom for each of my kids....middle class want. One with granite countertops and cherry cabinets and a media room - luxury. Down time is, I believe, a need. Going somewhere is a middle class want. Taking a three week cruise around the Greek Islands - luxury.

 

[MillauFr]

Car is not a luxury. For some people in the cities maybe a luxury. Where I live you need a car.

You mean you couldn't survive without a car? Wouldn't you just move to a place where a car wasn't necessary?

 

[MillauFr]

For some people, AC is needed. Heat stroke does kill people.

People have lived in places like Phoenix and Las Vegas before anyone had AC. You don't need AC.

Now Wagyu Beef and 1st growth Bordeaux wines. I couldn't survive without either. I wouldn't last a week.

 

[Skippyboo]

You mean you couldn't survive without a car? Wouldn't you just move to a place where a car wasn't necessary?

If you are living in rural Nebraska, you aren't moving to NYC to avoid having to pay for a car. If you don't work and live in a city, most places in the US you will need a car.

 

[melanielll]

My elementary school and junior high had no AC. My high school only had AC in the offices, the library and the cafeteria. We survived.

I am not saying don't pay for AC to save for a Disney trip, but I think we have a skewed view of what is required vs what is a luxury in his country. Cars - not required. Do they make life easier? In most places - yes. But a necessity? No. Once again - car over Disney trip? For me - car. But - most every family owning a car or cars is a recent thing in this country. We had one growing up. My aunt and uncle had 2. Two other sets of aunts and uncles had none. My grandparents never owned one. So - not necessary.

 

[tvguy]

You mean you couldn't survive without a car? Wouldn't you just move to a place where a car wasn't necessary?

No. The whole reason the suburbs exist is because they offer cheaper housing. The trade off, most likely have to have a car for work if public transportation is not an option. I have to be at work 3 hours before public transit even starts operating.
I work in the ghetto, but they are building townhouses right behind my building. $400,000 for 1500 square feet.
I have a 2000 square foot house worth about $100,000 less.
If I sell my house, I would pay $24,000 in real estate commission, and untold moving expenses.
I'd have to come up with the $100,000 price difference
My property taxes would go from $2,000 a year to $4,000 a year.
I can buy and operate a car for a lot less.
Moving to a place where a car wasn't necessary makes no economic sense.

 

[Skippyboo]

Well back in the day, a lot of towns had mom n pop grocery stories and public transit like a streetcar. My 70 year old Dad talks about getting the street car from his small Western PA town to next town. Now all those mom n pop stores are closed, plus the steel mill and glass factory where most of the town worked are also closed and there is no public transportation.

 

[tcufrog]

You mean you couldn't survive without a car? Wouldn't you just move to a place where a car wasn't necessary?

Have you ever moved? Even if you just move across town, find free boxes, and borrow a pickup truck from a friend moving cost money. Some people, such as my dh also have location specific jobs. I would love to live near DC for example but that location would be bad for his oil and gas business.

 

[dclpluto]

You mean you couldn't survive without a car? Wouldn't you just move to a place where a car wasn't necessary?

i live and work in the country not a big city like Seattle. I'm not moving.

 

[Skippyboo]

If you want to do Disney, there are numerous ways to save money. Go during off peak times, stay offsite, bring your own food into the park. No one is being forced to stay at the Grand Floridian Club Level. You also don't have to go every year. You can save up for multiple years to go.

There are multiple websites like mouse savers that have information on saving money at Disney.

 

[LovesTimone]

Its all about what you think is important... about your perception... what you like to do for vacation, It's about priority and what your passion are and where Disney falls on your chart... For us at the top...and we are willing to pay for it.


DH and I travel a lot and we budget for our trips we search out the best times of year, and research when to go, what to do, and so forth. Honestly Disney is no more expensive then most vacation destination.

We have a friend that is about as cheapo as you can get. But he loves to go see the Braves play, and he goes all in good tickets, parking, food, adult beverages, and always buy some souvenir, not cheap ones like the program. So we all went to a game together at the old stadium ... Our tickets behind home plate were around 200.+ each ( 400.00 plus),We did not pay for parking as we all rode together, dinner at the 365 club was 100.00 ( just for DH and I) for some nacho's, BBQ sandwich, cheeseburger, fries, and a couple of beers. Then at our seats about another 80.00 or so for a couple of hot dogs, several cokes, and another beer each. So for 1 baseball game we spent, almost 600.00... Crazy right... But our friend who complains about the cost of everything never once said one word about a 12 dollar draft beer... But we went to dinner with them and he complained about an 8 dollar glass of wine...

We have another friend that is into nascar... He spend the weekends at the race's in the in-field in their motor-home which is a sore spot for his wife and she said its about 1200.00 to 1500.00 what he spends for the weekend... The thing is that is just something he does with his buddies... they hit as many race's as they can during the season.

I have a girl friend that will spend 500.00 dollars on a handbag with a matching wallet that's 200.00 is a must have and 300.00 for a pair of shoes is a another must have... So 1000.00 for a handbag, and wallet, and a pair of shoes and she spends like that all the time... which is her right... and it's what important to her... But she kills me when she says how do you afford AP's I said what you spent today on those 3 items could pay or almost pay for your AP's depending on which one you get...

It's all about what important to you...

 

[Skippyboo]

When I was little, we often went to the Virginia Beach, VA for vacation. We stayed in a hotel and ate dinner out every day. My Aunt and her family would go to Ocean City MD and stay in an apartment and cooked most of their meals. My mom told my Dad. I am on vacation. I have to clean and cook at home all the time, I am not doing on vacation. So we that why we stayed at a hotel and went out to dinner each night. The years we couldn't afford a beach vacation, we did something cheaper or stayed at home.